Unveiling The Limo Stop

[Chris Davidson]

or,

Imagine you're just to the left right and behind Shaneyfelt and cohort, as they film from the pedestal.

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Chris Davidson

[Chris Davidson]

17 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Wiegman comes through with flying colors showing us the 2nd cameraman/film, his location

and

 

TWO CAMERAMEN - TWO DIFFERENT FILMS - TWO DIFFERENT LOCATIONS

PROOF OF CONCEPT:

 

Besides the camera heights, a slight size difference of the foreground people(not including between the sprocket holes).

[Chris Davidson]

TWO CAMERAMEN - TWO DIFFERENT FILMS - TWO DIFFERENT LOCATIONS

PROOF OF CONCEPT:

The curb angle difference between the sprocket hole area and main frame = 1.3°

 

[Chris Davidson]

And, just as it's impossible for the curb angle differences above, it therefore would be for a lamp-post "between the sprocket holes" too:

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Chris Davidson
Added bold type

[Chris Davidson]

Throw in an example of:

The vertical difference in background objects reflecting the height difference between Shaneyfelt(more than likely) and Zapruder both filming from the pedestal.

 

 

[John Butler]

On 10/8/2021 at 3:06 PM, Chris Davidson said:

TWO CAMERAMEN - TWO DIFFERENT FILMS - TWO DIFFERENT LOCATIONS

PROOF OF CONCEPT:

 

Besides the camera heights, a slight size difference of the foreground people(not including between the sprocket holes).

This is not only an interesting idea, but something familiar to me.  I've always thought there were more cameras in Dealey Plaza than those that are accounted for by the official story.  I can count 14 or so unknown camera people along the route of the motorcade in photos and films taken by others.  I know of the story at the ARRB that there was testimony that said there were Army photographers (maybe as many as 50) from Ft. Hood.

But, this is new and exciting.

Let's see if I get this right.  You are saying there is enough scene and technical differences between Z 132 and Z 133 to posit there were two cameras and two photographers involved?

Essentially this,

You indicate there was a camera man behind and just off where Zapruder was standing on the pedestal.

NIx shows this:

If someone was in the position you indicate, then they have been edited from the film.  The artificial shadows that appear on the left hand side could hide a lot of folks.  Is there a rational reason for those shadows.  No big deal since Nix is very heavily altered.  Why does Sitzman always look like she is in front of Zapruder?  Bronson:

No extra camera men here.  But, there looks like a splice at the left hand end of the pedestal Zapruder and Sitzman are on about where you point out there could be an extra camera man.  The black shadows are there also.

 

You have your second camera man high up as Zapruder is.  Was there a wall back there to stand on?  Its not real apparent in other films and photos?

Anyway, thanks for this interesting idea.  Can you develop this for other film sequences?

 

[Chris Davidson]

5 hours ago, John Butler said:

You have your second camera man high up as Zapruder is.  Was there a wall back there to stand on?  Its not real apparent in other films and photos?

 

 

 

[David Andrews]

Search the word "pergola" in the back threads for past discussion of men possibly filming from within the pavilion at the west (left) end of the pergola.  Photos used to illustrate may still be posted.  From the looks of the photo above, though, the pergola floor would be a foot or more below Zapruder's perch.

Edited October 10, 2021 by David Andrews

[Chris Davidson]

11 hours ago, John Butler said:

Anyway, thanks for this interesting idea.  Can you develop this for other film sequences?

 

It is Wiegman 308 which occurs 44 frames after the Wiegman/Z sync of extant Z447.

44/24fps = 1.83sec x 18.3fps = 33.5frames(sound familiar)

Z447 + 33.5 = extant Z481

Extant Z481 = five frames before extant Z stops filming.

 

 

[John Butler]

Chris D,

That's really impressive to spot that.  To me it doesn't matter if that is matched to the Zapruder film.  It is still in the time that Zapruder and Sitzman are on the pedestal.  Once blown up and sharpened the man on the wall behind Zapruer, et al is seen more clearly.

Now, some could say one is antrpomorphizing the breaks in the trees in the background.  But, that figure has legs so in my opinion it is a person.  

The next question:  Was there more camera men filming from Zapruder's location?  Correct me, if I am wrong but the different location perspective could be taken care of during alteration events.  So, what if there were 5 (or an unknown number) camera men.  And, that one shown wasn't edited out? 

Those films could have been flown out to Hawkeye Works the afternoon of the assassination and been there by possibly 6:00 PM.  Admittedly, this is just speculation.  But, one based upon your fine and impressive work.

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by John Butler

[John Butler]

Chris D,

I have always wondered since I watched David Healey's presentation on film alteration why not plan ahead if you know you may have to alter a film or films in Dealey Plaza to tell the story you want to tell.  

In other words, the cover up plan may have been more complex than people think.  If you know you may have to alter a film, such as Zapruder's film, why not film the area that Zapruder  (and others) is going film (this could also be done for locations other than Zapruders).  Sounds like the ARRB speculation of 50? Army photographers from Fort Hood.

Why not make a series of films as more information (people) move into the scene to be filmed?  That way you would have sufficient information to cut into earlier versions of the Zapruder film.  You could start this process hours earlier than the assassination time.  You could identify noticeable figures (such as say Jean Hill), cut figures, form mattes, and place your characters where you want them into backgrounds that were filmed earlier.  This may account for the problems I see with shadows in the various films and photos or the placement of such figures as the Newmans.  

Then you would have a film or rather the start of one that you could use to form briefing boards and photos for Life magazine to put out by Tuesday of the next week (about 15 or 30 frames).  The rest of the film could be done later after the FBI and the Secret Service have identified and interrogated witnesses to provide more accurate information.

This is what John Costella thought and said years earlier about building the film from the ground up.  It didn't make sense then, but has become more reasonable as a speculation.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by John Butler

[Chris Davidson]

3 hours ago, John Butler said:

In other words, the cover up plan may have been more complex than people think. 

 

 

 

The location of the person filming, who films Shaneyfelt up on the pedestal.

Does that location look familiar Mr Wiegman?

I believe some obstacles had to be considered in the final product.

[Chris Davidson]

4 hours ago, John Butler said:

 It is still in the time that Zapruder and Sitzman are on the pedestal. 

 

Right you are.

[Chris Davidson]

On 10/10/2021 at 11:16 AM, John Butler said:

In other words, the cover up plan may have been more complex than people think. 

 

 

Early on, and in more ways than one.

Curbline rotation again.

A common theme occurring among the extant zfilm and its recreation/reenactments?

 

 

 

[John Butler]

Chris D.,

Here is something to look at.  This is frame Z 375:

1.  Jackie's hand and wrist are covered by a light spot, an alleged reflection.  A reflection of what that makes it so intense it is different from the rest of the trunk.  I don't think Jackie was wearing gloves.

2.  There are two many straight lines in Jackie's figure.  There are not many things in nature that produce a straight line,  Particularly on a woman's figure.

3.  Notice the notch formed by Jackie's hat to her right buttock.  There are 3 straight lines that shouldn't be there.  Her right buttock is an outside line for her figure and is flat and not rounded as it should be.

4.  Her right leg is cut off mid way between hip and knee.

All of these things indicate altered frames.  The matte artist didn't do his work as well as he could have done in cutting out her figure from another film.  Rushed for time or arrogance in some one not seeing these details?

I conclude that Jackie picking up President Kennedy's brain matter of the trunk has been edited out of the Zapruder film.

OBTW, Chris D. has shown that there was an extra camera filming the same area and time that Zapruder was filming.  I speculated there could be more.  These extra films went, in my belief, straight to the Hawkeye works on Friday after maybe 3 or so hours for a jet to fly them to New York.  Certainly, they were there by 6:00 PM.

Fantasy?  Not really.  You have Chris D.'s impressive work on an extra Z film camera.  You have the alterations in Z frames 371-380.  These are enough to conclude their was chicanery in the extant Z Film. 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by John Butler