Jump to content
The Education Forum

The Marilyn Monroe/Kennedys Hoax: Part 1


Recommended Posts

This was based on a good book on the subject by Don McGovern, called Murder Orthodoxies, but also on some work I had done previously plus some new stuff I did.

It took me two weeks to write this based on 45 pages of notes.  You will learn a lot as McGovern really did some good work, going way beyond what anyone has done before in the field.

There are at least two important discoveries: 1.) The Fowler archives at Cal State Northridge, which proves that the Summers/Wolfe protagonist, Robert Slatzer, was a fake, and 2.) The pictures at the Gilroy Ranch of RFK.  When I saw those photos, it was like getting slapped in the face.  These have clearly been suppressed in order for the MSM to prolong a piece of cultural dementia. 

 

Two general takeaways.  The other side has been successful in making us think the worst of MM, JFK and RFK.  Second, this case, which is not a conspiracy, gets media time, while the JFK and RFK cases, which were conspiracies, get little or none. One last point:as you read this, please note how the business opportunists  in the MM field have borrowed from the JFK case, and inserted pieces of heisted data to cheaply aggrandize their own business enterprise. Pretty disgusting if you ask me.

https://kennedysandking.com/reviews/the-marilyn-monroe-kennedys-hoax-part-1-the-mythology-is-launched

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 62
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The work that guy did is awesome.  I mean I read a few of those books back in the nineties, but its proliferated since.

To go through all of that junk and to maintain distance and objectivity.  He is retired so that is how he had the time.

You will like it Anthony.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

This was based on a good book on the subject by Don McGovern, called Murder Orthodoxies, but also on some work I had done previously plus some new stuff I did.

 

Great to shoot this down in flames!

In Part II you write: Carmen also had her version of what happened between the president and Monroe after the famous 1962 rally in Madison Square Garden, where Monroe sang Happy Birthday to the president. As McGovern shows, this is also wrong since Monroe’s time before, during, and afterwards is all accounted for by neutral witnesses. She was escorted to the event by her former father-in-law and she kindly met with her New York fan club after the fund raiser. Randy Taraborrelli agrees that no such encounter happened. (McGovern, pp. 217-18)-

In James Reston's 'Second Best Thing' published just recently, his essay documents in text as well as Cecil Stoughton's photographs MM attending the private party after the Madison Sq. Garden event at 33 East Sixty Ninth St., (still in that dress.)  The party was attended by Jimmy Durante, Ella Fitzgerald, Shirley MacLaine, Harry Belafonte & Diahann Carroll among others.  Marilyn departed the party by limo at around 2:00 am.  Her driver took her to Brooklyn, where she dropped off Isadore Miller & went home alone to her thirteenth floor apartment at 444 East Fifty-Seventh St, arriving about 4:00 am.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is one thing that Reston left out.  When she left, it was to meet her fan club In New York.  There were several of them waitng for her, and McGovern uses three of them.

So that eliminates another.

Let me add something that McGovern hints at, but what Heymann actually did. Heymann was intent on inputing JFK with not only MM but with other sex symbols.  So he would wait until someone in that person's circle died, collect the obituary, and then start inventing words from that dead person's mouth which he never said before,.  Talk about sick.  And publishers fell for this. If you can believe it, Evan Thomas used Heymann for his biography of Bobby Kennedy.

The McGovern book is a real breath os sanity and fresh air in a field that has been dominated by con artists and clowns for  too long.

Edited by James DiEugenio
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Great to shoot this down in flames!

In Part II you write: Carmen also had her version of what happened between the president and Monroe after the famous 1962 rally in Madison Square Garden, where Monroe sang Happy Birthday to the president. As McGovern shows, this is also wrong since Monroe’s time before, during, and afterwards is all accounted for by neutral witnesses. She was escorted to the event by her former father-in-law and she kindly met with her New York fan club after the fund raiser. Randy Taraborrelli agrees that no such encounter happened. (McGovern, pp. 217-18)-

In James Reston's 'Second Best Thing' published just recently, his essay documents in text as well as Cecil Stoughton's photographs MM attending the private party after the Madison Sq. Garden event at 33 East Sixty Ninth St., (still in that dress.)  The party was attended by Jimmy Durante, Ella Fitzgerald, Shirley MacLaine, Harry Belafonte & Diahann Carroll among others.  Marilyn departed the party by limo at around 2:00 am.  Her driver took her to Brooklyn, where she dropped off Isadore Miller & went home alone to her thirteenth floor apartment at 444 East Fifty-Seventh St, arriving about 4:00 am.

Marilyn Monroe had a room on the Thirteenth floor?

Bad omen for MM there one could say. She died just 2 and 1/2 months later.

Otis Elevator company once stated that 85% of the high rise hotels they installed elevators in would not allow a thirteenth floor.

Edited by Joe Bauer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me add another point about Carmen, since you reminded me Peter.   (Love these UK guys)

In addition to the MSG birthday party baloney, she also said that MM had a roll in the hay with JFK in LA during the 1960 convention.

Little problem there.  Monroe was not in LA at that time.  She was filming a picture on the east coast.  What McGovern did is he compared the calendars of JFK and RFK, and then contrasted that with two day by day books that were recently published about Monroe. So, as I said in my review, if the event does not match, then it has to be sourced to anecdotal evidence.   When comparing it with an established record, anecdotal evidence has to be exceptional in quality and should have corroboration in a tangible way, or it should be discarded.

The problem with the witnesses that these guys use is they are a collection that would be laughed out of any legal proceeding.  They would never make it to trial since they would be blown up at the deposition stage.  Most of them make Howard Brennan look OK.  In my essay I show the serous land mines underneath people like Smathers, Carmen, Grandison, and the human 500 pound bomb Bob Slatzer. (Slatzer was mentioned scores of times by both Summers and Wolfe.) 

Yet this motley crew was assembled on TV for numerous specials.  One of which was even occasioned by the publication of that preposterous book by Chuck Giancana Double Cross. Since  that book said that somehow Giancana was with MM in Nevada the week of her death.  McGovern proves that this was nonsense since Giancana had nothing to do with her career, and the same for Roselli.  He spends several pages proving this. He is that thorough.

Please read his book.

And then ask yourself, why are there so many special on this case? And so few on the JFK and RFK cases?

(Hint: there is a direct connection.)

 

Edited by James DiEugenio
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Read the first part last night.  Damn.  The devil's in the details was never more apropos.  I bought into much of this over many years as it was intriguing, the only info available, on a "historical" subject.  Several years back it all came to seem a bit too much to believe, though I've read none of the books mentioned.  I feel somewhat vindicated in questioning the stories we were told.

Thanks Jim. I'll buy the book based on part 1, now on to part 2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being suspicious and pessimistic sometimes I wonder if this might have been orchestrated at least in part.  Reading part 1, it made me think of a CIA agent who's name I can't remember at the moment that Helms instructed to smear RFK in particular and took it to heart for the whole family for the rest of his life.  He's mentioned in RFK JR's book.

Smearing MM smears JFK and RFK?  Intended?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks to both of you, please buy the book.

When you order, make it the latest edition, which I think is 2019.

Because it was for that edition, McGovern found out about the Cal State Northridge  archives of Will Fowler.

That has the stuff in it about Slatzer never coming up with the files or interviews he said he had, and likely forging a letter to Summers. Which he fell for.

Then Fowler quits, and they bring in, of all people, Capell.  That would be like bringing  in Sean Hannity to finish a biography of Ted Kennedy.

I mean, Geezus.  

 

 

Edited by James DiEugenio
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Let me add another point about Carmen, since you reminded me Peter.   (Love these UK guys)

In addition to the MSG birthday party baloney, she also said that MM had a roll in the hay with JFK in LA during the 1960 convention.

Little problem there.  Monroe was not in LA at that time.  She was filming a picture on the east coast.  What McGovern did is he compared the calendars of JFK and RFK, and then contrasted that with two day by day books that were recently published about Monroe. So, as I said in my review, if the event does not match, then it has to be sourced to anecdotal evidence.   When comparing it with an established record, anecdotal evidence has to be exceptional in quality and should have corroboration in a tangible way, or it should be discarded.

The problem with the witnesses that these guys use is they are a collection that would be laughed out of any legal proceeding.  They would never make it to trial since they would be blown up at the deposition stage.  Most of them make Howard Brennan look OK.  In my essay I show the serous land mines underneath people like Smathers, Carmen, Grandison, and the human 500 pound bomb Bob Slatzer. (Slatzer was mentioned scores of times by both Summers and Wolfe.) 

Yet this motley crew was assembled on TV for numerous specials.  One of which was even occasioned by the publication of that preposterous book by Chuck Giancana Double Cross. Since  that book said that somehow Giancana was with MM in Nevada the week of her death.  McGovern proves that this was nonsense since Giancana had nothing to do with her career, and the same for Roselli.  He spends several pages proving this. He is that thorough.

Please read his book.

And then ask yourself, why are there no many special on this case? And so few on the JFK and RFK cases?

(Hint: there is a direct connection.)

 

Jim, the special that I saw on U.K. tv recently pumping out this RFK did it BS also included an accusation that Peter Lawford in later years confirmed Bobby's involvement.  Does McGovern deal with this in 'Murder Orthodoxies'?

And then ask yourself, why are there so many specials on this case? And so few on the JFK and RFK cases?  

In U.K. if any programmes on these cases are broadcast, they are screened away from the main BBC & main independent channels & mostly appear on a wacko channel that often puts out progs on aliens, Hitler in S. America and assorted conspiracy stuff.  Actually, I've only caught a couple on Monroe & RFK...JFK gets the majority.  However, in all cases the content is shallow, ridiculous!  'Mortal Error-The Shot that killed JFK' type themes.

Second, this case, which is not a conspiracy, gets media time, while the JFK and RFK cases, which were conspiracies, get little or none.

I see it all as part of Wilford's 'Mighty Wurlitzer'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NO Peter Lawford never said that.

How they get to that is through his last wife, who was only married to him for something like 8 months when Lawford was having serious dementia problems.

When Lawford was alive and healthy what he said was, I should have gone over to her place since she was not sounding good. That means alone since as I prove, RFK was in GIlroy.

Peter, that's too bad about the marginalization, like all conspiracies are the same.  They are not.

 

Edited by James DiEugenio
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Being suspicious and pessimistic sometimes I wonder if this might have been orchestrated at least in part.  Reading part 1, it made me think of a CIA agent who's name I can't remember at the moment that Helms instructed to smear RFK in particular and took it to heart for the whole family for the rest of his life.  He's mentioned in RFK JR's book.

Smearing MM smears JFK and RFK?  Intended?  

Two answers to this: In the former case, Helpern was given the job by Helms.  Namely smear the Kennedys with our Mafia plots.  Halpern did all he could to do so. But time after time he was exposed, like Talbot did in Brothers. Its why the authors of the IG Report decided no to listen to him. Therefore, the IG Report and CHurch Committee Report decided that it was done without presidential authorization and that is what they wrote.

There is other evidence out there that people like Lisa Pease have scooped up.  That is from Edelman and Siegenthaler.  The latter is pretty bracing. Bobby called Helms in to his office and reamed him over not telling him.  Helms said before the Church Committee, after Bob was dead, that he did not recall the meeting.  Even though they had RFK's calendar with Helms' name on it for that day at 11:15. Before he died Helms made a kind of deathbed confession on this for Bugliosi--of all people

 

But from what I can see, the case with MM is different.  Its more of an off the shelf action.  People who the CIA and FBI would like, but their backing is not really needed.  The guys who started it--Reiss, Clemmons, Capell--were all dyed in the wool racists and McCarthyites.  I mean if you are trying to frame Tom Kuchel in a libel conspiracy, his sole sin being he backed Bobby Kennedy's efforts to pass his brothers civil rights program--I mean that is pretty out there in and of itself. Then when that failed, they settled on the MM/RFK BS story.. That did not get very far, at first,  although it was used against RFK in New York in 1968.

But then a few years later, you had the money grubbing Norman Mailer who latched onto it in his quickie book that took him two months to write, with that FBI informant Larry Schiller, and then king of the BS artists Slatzer took it from there--and the circus was on.  It was now open season and guys like Summers and Wolfe and Heymann and Burleson and Anderson and the rest took the thing to Outer Space, literally.  And Hoover was there adding gasoline to the fire. As more than one of these authors note, Hoover wrote up stuff that he created out of whole cloth, that simply could not have happened.  In McGovern's book he notes once when Summers was on TV quoting from an FBI document, which he then realized, oh that is questionable. He forgot that in his book he went further and said it was likely created.

Edited by James DiEugenio
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Marilyn Monroe had a room on the Thirteenth floor?

Bad omen for MM there one could say. She died just 2 and 1/2 months later.

Otis Elevator company once stated that 85% of the high rise hotels they installed elevators in would not allow a thirteenth floor.

My apartment in San Francisco was 1306.  I think it is still there...

Actually, it was 66 Cleary Court, so three 6's...even worse...

Edited by Pamela Brown
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...