Unacknowledged

[Douglas Caddy]

We should read Larry's book and this one as well for a balanced picture:

https://www.amazon.com/UFOs-National-Security-State-1973-1991/dp/0967799511/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=the+national+security+state&qid=1591149762&s=books&sr=1-2

 

[Joe Bauer]

3 hours ago, Ken Davies said:

I discussed the Paul Helleyer matter with a subsequent Canadian cabinet minister who has been a life long friend of mine, and was assured that Mr. Helleyer had no credibility whatsoever in regard to his alien visitor opinions. This was a similar scenario to when RFK asked whether "your guys did it" in such a way that he was assured that the answer was truthful. 

The odds would seem to favour intelligent life in the universe but there does not seem to be much on this planet these days.

 

No credibility?

5 years as Canada's "Minister Of Defence" does not give one credibility?

Hellyer was not:

• Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
• Secretary of State for the Provinces
• Minister of Public Works 
• Postmaster General
• Minister of Customs 
• Minister of Inland Revenue
• Secretary of State for Canada 
•  
• Hellyer was minister of the department that handled military and military threat matters. He had access to probably the most highest security sensitive reports in this specific area for 5 years.

Was your friend as highly placed as Hellyer and in this specific capacity?

Surely not.

Hellyer obviously was privy to at least some relevant information in his five years of heading this department that helped shape his views on the reality of the UFO/ET presence. Hellyer was Canada's Minister of Defence when the Shag Harbor underwater UFO incident happened in Nova Scotia. One must wonder what he must have been informed of regarding that most famous UFO event in Canadian history.

Imagine if our Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfield had come out with a similar take on the UFO/ET subject as Hellyer's in his later civilian life?

His high position in this capacity would give him much credibility as I believe Hellyer's similar position should as well.

•  

[Ron Bulman]

Between the coronavirus, the economy for some, and riots, if there are aliens out there as long as they don't hurt me I think I wish they might take me on a long strange trip.   Of course I don't think that's really possib

[Cory Santos]

I represented the Lear family for years.   I have heard tales.   Much of what comes out is disinformation but the tic tac event is very compelling due to video, multiple credible witnesses, and the Pentagon confirming the authenticity of the videos.   The CIA has not disowned the MM memo.   It is a fact that MM was being recorded however.  The source of the memo is questionable so a debate with Dr. Greer and Jim is necessary at some point.   I will say that not counting the memo, I think the evidence is clear something more happened to MM.   Why I do not know.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Cory Santos

[Ken Davies]

8 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

No credibility?

5 years as Canada's "Minister Of Defence" does not give one credibility?

Hellyer was not:

• Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
• Secretary of State for the Provinces
• Minister of Public Works 
• Postmaster General
• Minister of Customs 
• Minister of Inland Revenue
• Secretary of State for Canada 
•  
• Hellyer was minister of the department that handled military and military threat matters. He had access to probably the most highest security sensitive reports in this specific area for 5 years.

Was your friend as highly placed as Hellyer and in this specific capacity?

Surely not.

Hellyer obviously was privy to at least some relevant information in his five years of heading this department that helped shape his views on the reality of the UFO/ET presence. Hellyer was Canada's Minister of Defence when the Shag Harbor underwater UFO incident happened in Nova Scotia. One must wonder what he must have been informed of regarding that most famous UFO event in Canadian history.

Imagine if our Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfield had come out with a similar take on the UFO/ET subject as Hellyer's in his later civilian life?

His high position in this capacity would give him much credibility as I believe Hellyer's similar position should as well.

•  

Joe,

 With all due respect, Mr. Hellyer was Minister of Defence for 4 years many decades ago. The other posts you list are "junior positions " in our Canadian government. My friend was Minister of Defence this millennium, held several other senior cabinet posts, and served in parliament far longer than Mr. Heller.

 I started reading UFO books in 1966. I started "reading the law" as we used to say, in 1974. I worked for the government for over 10 years. I am still practising law. (Perhaps some day I will get it right!). There are more credible people in the UFO field than Mr. H.

Stay well.

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Ken Davies said:

Joe,

 With all due respect, Mr. Hellyer was Minister of Defence for 4 years many decades ago. The other posts you list are "junior positions " in our Canadian government. My friend was Minister of Defence this millennium, held several other senior cabinet posts, and served in parliament far longer than Mr. Heller.

 I started reading UFO books in 1966. I started "reading the law" as we used to say, in 1974. I worked for the government for over 10 years. I am still practising law. (Perhaps some day I will get it right!). There are more credible people in the UFO field than Mr. H.

Stay well.

Ken - what is your position generally on the subject of UFO’s?

[Paul Brancato]

5 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

I represented the Lear family for years.   I have heard tales.   Much of what comes out is disinformation but the tic tac event is very compelling due to video, multiple credible witnesses, and the Pentagon confirming the authenticity of the videos.   The CIA has not disowned the MM memo.   It is a fact that MM was being recorded however.  The source of the memo is questionable so a debate with Dr. Greer and Jim is necessary at some point.   I will say that not counting the memo, I think the evidence is clear something more happened to MM.   Why I do not know.

Well that’s some news. The Lear family. It’s been a while, but if memory serves I was left quite puzzled by stories from that family. I may still have a book or two. I’m glad to know you have an open and inquisitive mind on the subject. I agree - the videos are showing us something, and unlike the earlier fakes they are by and large not fakes. I’ve come to believe that the lack of clear unmistakeable photos of alien craft indicates something about the technology behind them. Greer is interesting. I don’t think that one can smear him by pointing to his finances. He is in earnest. The point he makes about the peaceful intent of the visitors makes perfect sense.. if they are here, they mean no harm. He takes that to some ultimate conclusions about contact which are thought provoking, which is basically that it’s up to ordinary citizens to make contact because the military is not trustworthy, and according to Greer stand in the way of a new world. I’m only exploring this concept, don’t know first hand whether he is right. But I don’t think he is a con. Are you familiar with the testimony of Carol Rosin? She claims a close relationship with Werhner Von Braun in the last years of his life. I could not disprove her story using google. It is a pretty incredible tale. I’m not here to push it. I’d really like to know if anyone has evidence that she is a fraud. 

 

[Douglas Caddy]

4 hours ago, Ken Davies said:

Joe,

 With all due respect, Mr. Hellyer was Minister of Defence for 4 years many decades ago. The other posts you list are "junior positions " in our Canadian government. My friend was Minister of Defence this millennium, held several other senior cabinet posts, and served in parliament far longer than Mr. Heller.

 I started reading UFO books in 1966. I started "reading the law" as we used to say, in 1974. I worked for the government for over 10 years. I am still practising law. (Perhaps some day I will get it right!). There are more credible people in the UFO field than Mr. H.

Stay well.

The fact that Mr. Hellyer was Minister of Defence for 4 years many  decades ago is irrelevant.

"There is a serious possibility that we are being visited and have been visited for many years by people from outer space, from other civilizations….This should be the subject of rigorous scientific investigation and not the subject of ‘rubishing’ by tabloid newspapers. – Lord Admiral Hill-Norton, Former Chief of Defence Staff, 5 Star Admiral of the Royal Navy, Chairman of the NATO Military Committee."

Mr. Heller acquired knowledge of UFO's and the Alien Presence during his tenure as Minister of Defence many decades ago . Such knowledge is as timely today and it was then. Knowledge does not have a shelf life and then expires on such and such a date.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Douglas Caddy

[Paul Brancato]

17 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Cliff, I'll go this far - it is not at all a standard UFO book, instead it does two things. First it provides a detailed history of the national security community (Air Force, Navy, AEC and CIA)  in its engagement with UFO reports, particularly reports from military installations, pilots etc - with a focus on the atomic warfare complex.  Secondly it performs a basic indications analysis (a technique derived from  a warnings/threat intelligence) related to those types of incidents and reports.  Anything more can be found in the Amazon description:

https://www.amazon.com/Unidentified-National-Intelligence-Problem-UFOs/dp/069289229X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Anyone that wants to discuss the book or UFO's (in more contemporary scientific usage UAP's, unidentified aerial phenomena) is welcome to email me at larryjoe@westok.net

 

 

Larry - would you be willing to make a general statement here regarding the phenomena from your own perspective? Do you think we are being visited ? Do you think the well documented triangular craft sightings are of terrestrial technologies? 

[Jeff Carter]

Anecdotally, in the mid-90s I’d enjoy listening occasionally to the Art Bell radio program, not necessarily because I thought the guests and info were on the level but because it was consistently entertaining and seemed to embody a distinct end-of-the-century loopiness. During UFO-themed episodes,  listeners often reported seeing small minivan-sized triangular craft which flew in distinct zig-zag patterns and could hover. 

In September 1996 I happened to be driving outside of Spokane, Washington and almost veered off the road at the sight of a  small minivan-sized triangular craft which flew low in zig-zagging patterns in the farmer’s field to our left. The Spokane air show was scheduled at that time, and earlier several unusual aircraft had flown over the highway. I presumed the triangular craft was some sort of experimental plane, likely military, and it was part of the Air Show (it may well have been an early version of what became the drone network). Since that morning I have generally concluded that most of the “UFO phenomenon” was a cover story for experimental military aircraft.

[Larry Hancock]

Sure Paul, actually there are two elements to it.  The first is that anomalous devices (by that I mean something with observed maneuvering performance and speed outside the technology of the day, especially the military technology, and able to intentionally interact with military aircraft with absolutely no fear) has been under observation since the last two years of World War II. 

The second is actually of far more interest to me and that has to do with specific trends and patterns in play which show unidentified objects conducting reconnaissance, surveillance and intelligence collection the atomic warfare complex - as well as iterative testing (called spoofing) of our radar systems and interceptor aircraft over some seven decades. That was a conclusion reached by American Air Intelligence and CIA technical intelligence as early as 1952 - however since there has been no provable evidence of hostility the decision has continued to be that there is no provable threat involved and there are always more imminent threats to address - not that we are actually able to do anything when they show up anyway, as in the Nimitz super-carrier group incidents of a few years ago continues to demonstrate.

Probably should note that the observations of the first couple of decades were more anomalous and relatively sensational than recent years.  In more recent years the really anomalous incidents tend to occur at night with the few daylight sighting of things that could be interpreted as test aircraft or more recently drones.

So yes, real...but no clue on their origin and I am currently involved in both UAP characteristics and intentions studies. These studies are pretty hard core - for the characteristics one we have evaluated thousands of reports and are boiling it down to a final sample of perhaps three hundred or since 1947.  Some of those are triangular but the really anomalous ones tend to be very large (similar to the Hudson river valley wave of the eighties).

.................

 

Larry - would you be willing to make a general statement here regarding the phenomena from your own perspective? Do you think we are being visited ? Do you think the well documented triangular craft sightings are of terrestrial technologies? 

[Pete Mellor]

I only caught up with this thread today, and watched 'Unacknowledged' on Netflix.  The Shakespeare quote from Hamlet I do believe...'there are more things under heaven Horatio' etc.  The Drake equation provides a fair figure for intelligent life in our universe. (Or maybe multiverse.)

One of my interests is astronomy, whenever the U.K. skies clear of clouds!  As for U.F.O.'s until I get proof personally, I keep an open mind.  I remember reading of Betty & Barney Hill's abduction back in my teens.  I do except that sightings are made by professional and sound people, like airline & military pilots etc.,  but I've never seen a video that clearly shows proof of some extra-terrestrial craft.  Saucer shapes and lights in the sky don't give me definitive convictions either way, although I have nothing to refute all the stories & testimonies.

If I have scepticism it comes from the distances of space.  Our nearest star to our sun is Alpha Centauri (which is actually 3 stars) & they are over four light years away & no planets that reside in a favourable orbit to set up life, at least the last that I recall.  I think the nearest possible system is into double figures of light years.  So I ask myself why these clinging ons are travelling all this way in such numbers to play cat & mouse across our skies?  My jury votes 'not proven'.

[Paul Brancato]

Thanks Larry. So you see no evidence that national security state military/CIA groups are  promoting the idea that if they are here they represent a threat? Or that above top secret government groups are monitoring?

 

[Larry Hancock]

Paul, check my earlier post and the books I referenced.  Certainly intelligence agencies have used the subject and inserted disinformation in a number of cases...so clearly they follow the subject.  And no, just the opposite of promoting them as a threat...trying to use media to minimize fear of them - that is well documented.  That has been done for many reasons, one being in the early years that bursts of reports in themselves were felt to be a national security problem, possibly obscuring an actual attack. There was even concern that the Soviets would use fakes for that purpose. 

All of this is really no secret, its disclosed in a large number of documents and in work by some solid scientifically and historically interested researchers....which is why I wrote the book.

Of course its not nearly sensational enough to get read much, and has nowhere near the circulation of the alien contact,  above top secret stuff.   Not that I have an attitude about it or anything...grin.

 

[Paul Brancato]

Pete - I feel very similarly, but I don’t buy Carl Sagan’s vast distance refutation any more. My dad was very impressed with the Betty and Barney Hill abduction, but it doesn’t hold water. If they are here then they got here somehow, and it wasn’t by light speed. Greer has another movie out called Close Encounters of the 5th kind where he makes clear his real opinion, that it’s advanced consciousness that guides, not physical space. It’s interesting. I can’t say I buy it, but like all this stuff I keep an open mind about alien visitation. 
Larry - although intelligence and military documents may show that whatever it is it is not considered a threat, popular culture does. Abductions, animal mutilations, plus most, not all obviously, of Hollywood. The average citizen is far more influenced by popular culture than arcane documents. I don’t know what goes on at Area 51, but as far as I can tell neither do our presidents and elected officials. Do I have that wrong? And what do you make of the statements of at least 3 astronauts? 
For many years I have concluded we were seeing secret military technologies. I still think that, but I’m now seriously considering the idea that we have back engineered alien craft to some extent. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Paul Brancato