Is anyone interested in Apollo missions...

[Jack White]

Mr. Rice isn't a STRUCTURAL engineer and has already been the subject of a thread where I debunked him*. He doesn't seem to have read the NIST report. The fact that he taught at some crappy school doesn't especially qualify him. If the collapses without the aid of demolition charges "super thermate" etc were as impossible as he and other truthers make out how come only 1 – 3 structural engineers, NONE of whom seems to have worked on steel framed buildings more than 3 stories tall, seems to think so? Why haven't any structural engineers from Iran, Cuba, Venezuela etc said anything

* http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8183

PETER WROTE:

I'd suggest a remedial course in Physics and then Logic, followed by Ethics. It is more likely that space aliens blasted the WTC and Pentagon with weapons we know nothing about, than to believe the official fiction....the official version is based on not only bad science - but IMPOSSIBLE science and engineering principles. The fact they can find professional prostitutes to back it up is nothing new and no surprise. It is a story that will soon be relegated to these like a flat earth.

Ditto above re: the lack of concurring opinions by people qualified on the subject

The fact they STILL haven't addressed WTC7 [to me] is proof they haven't yet figured out a modified limited hangout that keeps the truth hidden enough [for their purposes] and conforms with the laws of Physice

Actually they have as has been pointed out more than once

Oh My! Len Colby has already dismissed this person as a non-entity......[gasp!] All fall down and prostrate yourselves to the overwhelming omniscence of Mr. Colby and his official version of everything. Esactly what are YOUE CREDENTIALS to pass judegment on everyone as if you were the king with no clothes on? Mr. Colby is your ego overinflated or do they fine you for non-response on this forum to every post about 911 truth? Did you have overly authoritarian parents? How can we understand your positions on life, the universe and everything? I suggest you have some cheap pinapple down there...samba and forget 9-11 as you haven't a clue to the reality of what happened. You don't let in new info...you have a idee' fixe - the official verions is correct because it is official. Bullxxxx! The officials were wrong [knowingly and conspiratorially] on JFK, MLK, RFK, MJK, M. Monroe, Vietnam, Loas, Agent Orange, Watergate, Savings and Loan; Lockerbee; Iran-Contra; Cuba ops; CIA-Nazi links; Enron; Overthrow of Haiti, Guatamala, Iran, Greece, Italy, Australia, Nicaragua, Panama, Granada, Sweden, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, Honduras, Brazil, and many more - scandals from A to Z including drug-running; bank swindles; illegal arms deals;covert ops; black-bag jobs; assassinations of duely elected officials, govenrments and US citizens. You sir are a co-conspirator, after the fact on all of this. I left out a few thousand other things they lied about and you try to present a rationale for their lies...and they {USG} are knowingly and wittingly telling lies about 9-11 also, and you know it! Patriot you are NOT! Logical you are not. Ethical you are not. Annoying you are, but people with your beliefs will be left in the rubble of history or we will all be [all humans] in the rubble of history very soon.

IMO

Peter, I don't often indulge in theories...but have you considered this:

We know from our study of the JFK case that the govt invented TWO OSWALDS, TWO MARGUERITES,

and many other duplicitous duplications.

Have you considered that "Len Colby" might not be a real person, but a name assumed by a USG office

of disinformation? In a darkened room at the Pentagon or Langley, people sit in front of computer

screens 24 hours a day monitoring newsgroups which discuss govt malfeasance, using keywords

like Apollo, Twin Towers, Pentagon, 911, etc....and respond with massive canned official retaliation.

We know that the USG is duplicitous. I have no doubt that there is an office of disinformation in

DC, but they cannot send their internet crap with a Washington address, so they use ISPs in

foreign lands like Brazil and Australia to send out their lies.

Think it over.

Jack

Edited September 28, 2007 by Jack White

[Len Colby]

Oh My! Len Colby has already dismissed this person as a non-entity

Already ? Peter the guy came up several months ago and I took a look at his claims. His understanding of the "official version" seems to be based on watching two different versions of a NOVA (TV) documentary. I didn't say he was a non-entity just that he isn't really qualified to analyze the collapse because

1) he isn't a structural engineer

2) he doesn't seem to have closely examined the case beyond watching some TV documentaries and reading some truther websites. At least when he wrote the article cited by Ron he seems NOT to have read the NIST report.

Exactly what are YOUR CREDENTIALS to pass judegment on everyone as if you were the King with no clothes on?

I have no engineering credentials but unlike Mr. Rice I can cite numerous qualified engineers who back my position.

Ethical you are not.

Please cite example of my lack of ethical behavior

Annoying you are, but people with your beliefs will be left in the rubble of history or we will all be [all humans] in the rubble of history very soon.

My, my some people do get in a tiff when there pet notions are challenged

I choose not to lower myself to your level by responding to the rest of your moronic isulting rant .

[Evan Burton]

Peter,

Only a relatively minor point, but those plans were not kept secret.

According to this article, there were others before that.

Also, Len is quite correct when he says that procedures may have been significantly different in 2001 to what Mr Hordon was used to in 1981. I can tell you procedures in Australia were quite different in 2001 compared to when I first started ATC training in 1988.

[Evan Burton]

Peter,

Please stop throwing the insults at Len. If you find his arguments flawed, then expose those flaws.

Also, motives for posting should not be questioned. It doesn't matter who says what, it matters what they say. If what someone says is true, then it is irrelevant if that person is your best friend or your worst enemy.

[Craig Lamson]

Len the Borg-supporter will tell us the angle cuts were done during cutting-up operations at clean-up BUT IT AINT SO - as with all of his 'official' bull**** Here are more angled cuts, in fact most of the larger beams had when first found ONLY angle cuts [the way controlled demo is done to let the beams slide past one another]

How about a little data to back up your claims? I've found nothing that indicates that thermite/thermate is ever used to cut steel beams during controlled demolitions.

Since its your claim you need to supply the support and in this case your standard link to a CT site will not do.

Lets see what kind of juice you really have?

Edited September 29, 2007 by Craig Lamson

[Evan Burton]

Peter,

Is that slide from Dr Jones' presentation?

[Craig Lamson]

Len the Borg-supporter will tell us the angle cuts were done during cutting-up operations at clean-up BUT IT AINT SO - as with all of his 'official' bull**** Here are more angled cuts, in fact most of the larger beams had when first found ONLY angle cuts [the way controlled demo is done to let the beams slide past one another]

How about a little data to back up your claims? I've found nothing that indicates that thermite/thermate is ever used to cut steel beams during controlled demolitions.

Since its your claim you need to supply the support and in this case your standard link to a CT site will not do.

Lets see what kind of juice you really have?

Your right, no thermate was used to cut up the beams. It was only use to demolish the three main WTC buildings - thus all the thermate-chemical fingerprint dust, which matches exactly the x-ray spectrogrphs of laboratory thermate dust.

All the details are in the slide presentation this thread is premised upon. All references and videos etc are in there.

I did not ask you if it was used to "cut up beams", I asked you to provide ANY proof (outside of CT sites) that thermate/thermite was used in controlled demolition. SO what do you give us? Circular logic.

You claim Thermite/thermate was used to bring down the towers. How about some proof, outside of your CT websites, that it is used in CD.

[Dave Greer]

Len the Borg-supporter will tell us the angle cuts were done during cutting-up operations at clean-up BUT IT AINT SO - as with all of his 'official' bull**** Here are more angled cuts, in fact most of the larger beams had when first found ONLY angle cuts [the way controlled demo is done to let the beams slide past one another]

Peter

What proof do you have that no beams were cut up during the clean-up operation? Some of the post-collapse photos clearly show some of the exterior beams of lower floors still relatively intact, so they had to dispose of these somehow. On top of that, the configuration of the three beams in the photo suggests they are in situ as opposed to randomly tumbling there from upper floors. This is incompatible with a top-down collapse, or are proposing that they had thermite cutting charges all the way down to the ground floor?

The main question is: what evidence do you have that no beams were cut during the clean-up operation?

[Len Colby]

The blueprints to the WTC have been kept secret by the 'officials'. Someone has recently leaked a copy [below one floor] showing how easy an elevator upgrade could have [and likely was] used to place the explosives on the core columns by cutting through sheetrock outside of elevator cabs every floor - placing thermate with digital detonators controlled by computer.

Ace Elevators the company that had the contract to maintain and upgrade the WTC elevator system had been in businesses since 1980*. They had been doing the maintenance there since 1994**. They won the contract to modernize the elevator system in 1999***.

* http://www.nycooperative.com/Contractors/elevators.html

** http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/1...t-mechanics.htm

*** http://www.elevator-world.com/magazine/arc...11-005.html-ssi

Several Port Authority/Silverstein Properties employees responsible for the elevators had been working at the building for years died on 9/11 including:

“Robert "Bob" Lynch, a property manager for the Port Authority at the WTC for 21 years, WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PROPER OPERATION OF THE WTC'S 246 ELEVATORS and 76 escalators.”

“Francis Riccardelli, manager of vertical transportation for the Port Authority, was the elevator and escalator expert at the WTC. At the time of the tragedy, HE WAS IN CHARGE OF THE MODERNIZATION OF THE VERTICAL TRANSPORTATION EQUIPMENT IN THE TWIN TOWERS...He was a survivor and hero of the WTC 1993 bombing”

“John Griffin was a senior vice president for Silverstein Properties overseeing security guards, porters and elevator operations.”

http://www.elevator-world.com/magazine/arc...11-005.html-ssi

According to one of the “elevator men” he started with Otis at the Trade Center in 1973 was transferred elsewhere in ’75 and came back in 1998. He also stated that “most of...a lot of” “the men that were there in ’93”(i.e. the WTC bombing) “were still there”

And as a bit of a side note he also said “You could see A Tower, the outside, the columns were glowing red by that time, because that had been on fire for at least a good 25 minutes by that time. B Tower, I could see tremendous structural damage to the outside of the building.”

http://archive.recordonline.com/adayinseptember/jones.htm

The core columns were encased in sheet rock how exactly would “they” have removed it to plant the explosives without being noticed? Presumably the space between the drywall and columns would have left little space for external demolition charges. The modernization work was being done in mechanical rooms not the shafts*. Do you think people who had worked at the WTC and/or in the elevator industry for years some times decades were involved? What about the WTC elevator executives who died trying to save others that morning? What about the "elevator men" who helped save people in 1993?

* http://web.archive.org/web/20030926031958/...df/0103-002.pdf

Before you and Gage libelously, recklessly and baselessly accuse people of murder perhaps you should do minimal research and/or find some evidence first.

Gage was right when he said the perimeter columns would have been impossible to access without detection they were encased in aluminium and clearly visible to people inside and outside the towers. How then do you explain the focused squibs, which would have had to travel 35 – 103 feet (11 – 31 meters) to exit the towers if they had been from CORE columns and should have been diffused after traveling such a distance?

Len the Borg-supporter will tell us the angle cuts were done during cutting-up operations at clean-up BUT IT AINT SO - as with all of his 'official' bull**** Here are more angled cuts, in fact most of the larger beams had when first found ONLY angle cuts [the way controlled demo is done to let the beams slide past one another]

Please provide evidence to support your claim that the angle cut columns (beams are horizontal) were NOT cut that way during clean up.

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

Len the offiicial cover-up artist now calls into question the x-ray spectrographs. I call into question if Len is real; if there ever was a 911 investigation [not, I think] and if the Earth is round. He obviously is just trying [or employed] to cause trouble here. Elsewhere on this thread and others about 911 I have posted the lecture it came from. Here is yet another. He obviously doesn't read the posts, nor look at the infomation, as he knows the official version of everything is correct - after all it is

'official'.

[…]

Think for yourself. People like Len are Benedict Arnolds.

Funny you accuse me of engaging in personal attacks, your hypocrisy is stunning. I am I obliged to look through Gage’s entire 318 slide presentation to find the slide? Or was it from Dr. Jones 75 slide lecture* that you hadn’t indicated was your source and only now posted a nonworking link to? Rather than engage in insults see if you can provide a WORKING link to the actual slide (page # for Jones) and answer my questions. I normally read all the previous post in a thread before posting and with in reason look at information provided but asking people to respond to dozens of links or 318 slide presentations isn’t reasonable especially when the various cited sources repeat the same info much of which has already been debated here.

PS – Question for the mods what is Lemkin’s warning level up to? If he doesn’t have one why not? Note that Benedict Arnold was the most infamous traitor in American history.

* http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/...sDepartment.pdf

Wonderful Blooper by the BBC...they announced the fall of WTC7 20 minutes before it fell!

Already discussed ad infinium elsewhere on this forum perhaps Peter is the one “doesn't read the posts”. The FDNY had been predicting the building would collapse for hours.

Challenge for the "inside jobbers" please find me one reference to thermite or thermate being used in controlled demo of a building. I did a search a few years ago and the only one I found was a small bridge. Also explain how thermate would be made to work horizontally when demo videos only show it being gravity driven. Nor do any of the videos show it working with anything approaching the speed of cutter charges.

[Craig Lamson]

Do you even read this stuff and check it out or do you just take it on faith because it fits your worldview?

It appears the good doctor is really a HALF-TRUTHER. If he gets something like this wrong why should we believe ANYTHING he says?

"They also make large commercial planes for FedEx that fly by remote control as reported by the Associated Press. The “success” of this operation depended on the planes reaching their destination. Would the planners (be they Arab or otherwise) trust poorly trained “pilots” when this technology was at their disposal?"

Totally untrue. A FEDEX 727 was TESTED with an autoland system. This system was NOT a remote control system but rather an update to the autopilot system, and it was for landing only. The PLANE WAS NOT FLOWN BY REMOTE CONTROL!

Edited September 30, 2007 by Craig Lamson

[Craig Lamson]

When you can deal with the uncomfortable facts that destroy your position in an intellectually honest manner, please check in again.

I'm not however holding my breath that it will ever happen.

BTW, where is your PROOF that thermate/thermaite is USED IN CONTROLLED DEMOLITION?

Were you just born this minute?

[Craig Lamson]

Len the Borg-supporter will tell us the angle cuts were done during cutting-up operations at clean-up BUT IT AINT SO - as with all of his 'official' bull**** Here are more angled cuts, in fact most of the larger beams had when first found ONLY angle cuts [the way controlled demo is done to let the beams slide past one another]

How about a little data to back up your claims? I've found nothing that indicates that thermite/thermate is ever used to cut steel beams during controlled demolitions.

Since its your claim you need to supply the support and in this case your standard link to a CT site will not do.

Lets see what kind of juice you really have?

Your right, no thermate was used to cut up the beams. It was only use to demolish the three main WTC buildings - thus all the thermate-chemical fingerprint dust, which matches exactly the x-ray spectrogrphs of laboratory thermate dust.

All the details are in the slide presentation this thread is premised upon. All references and videos etc are in there.

TIME FOR SOME TRUTH PETER! YOU EVER GONNA DEAL WITH THIS?

I did not ask you if it was used to "cut up beams", I asked you to provide ANY proof (outside of CT sites) that thermate/thermite was used in controlled demolition. SO what do you give us? Circular logic.

You claim Thermite/thermate was used to bring down the towers. How about some proof, outside of your CT websites, that it is used in CD

[Len Colby]

There is also the problem of identifing the passengers and 'hijackers'...or were they not there?!

Autopsy: No Arabs on Flight 77

By Thomas R. Olmsted, M.D

I am an ex Naval line officer and a psychiatrist in private practice in New Orleans, a Christian and homeschool dad. It troubled me a great deal that we rushed off to war on the flimsiest of evidence. I considered various ways to provide a smoking gun of who and why Sept 11th happened. Astute observers noticed right away that there were no Arabic sounding names on any of the flight manifests of the planes that “crashed” on that day.

Peter why do you insist on spamming irrelevant subject matter to threads this subject has already been discused the allegation that there were no Arabs on the flights is false the "truthers' based that on published "victims" lists which by definition excluded the hijackers, they were based on media reports not info from the airlines.

http://911myths.com/html/no_hijackers_on_the_manifests.html

The hijackers remains were not identified

http://911myths.com/html/missing_arabs.html

IIRC that was because their family members didn't supply comparison DNA.

As for the supposed FDR problem you brought it up elsewhere and Evan posted contrary evidence.

[Craig Lamson]

When you can deal with the uncomfortable facts that destroy your position in an intellectually honest manner, please check in again.

I'm not however holding my breath that it will ever happen.

BTW, where is your PROOF that thermate/thermaite is USED IN CONTROLLED DEMOLITION?

Were you just born this minute?

You can continue with your grade-school level posts. Your not impressing anyone. Every day the % of those who seriously doubt the offical version of 911 is growing.

Deal with it. Learn to live with it. You can't fool all of the people all of the time.

Blah Blah Blah, Translated from lemkinspeak,

"I can't prove anything so I'll continue my normal rants in the hopes no one notices I have no clothes."

So where is your PROOF lemkin?

[Dave Greer]

When you have the renown of the people on this site, check in again.

<snip>

Peter

I don't know if you think posting an image like that is designed to win people over to your side: from my point of view it looks like it's purely designed to create an emotional reaction. Trolling actually detracts from any sensible message you may have. If you're just into one-upmanship... woo hoo. You'd serve your cause better if you stuck to facts.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Dave Greer