Is anyone interested in Apollo missions...

[Guest Stephen Turner]

uh, dont know Len, The antidote to the three wise men perhaps, three villages deprived of their idiot mayhap

Steve.

Doesn't sound like you were too impressed by Fetzer's book!!

Quite the contrary Len, I was laughing for days.

[Gerry Hemming]

uh, dont know Len, The antidote to the three wise men perhaps, three villages deprived of their idiot mayhap

Steve.

Doesn't sound like you were too impressed by Fetzer's book!!

Quite the contrary Len, I was laughing for days.

---------------------------------

Shame ! Shame ! Youse guys don't give the whacko-wingnut conspiracy mongers "...any respect around this place..!!" [Rodney Dangerfield]

I hope you don't go and upset one of my prime antagonists on this forum -- he has a nexus to a "muzik-biz" shop called "The Village Idiot".

Maybe the poor girl should have instead hired the kind of stunt drivers who raced around le gran Paree in the movie "Ronin" -- but, then again "The Rich & Famous" have been notably too cheap to pay for genuine "executive protection" specialists. That might affiliate them with the "bloody mercs" !! You know, the kind of folks that go around spreading minefields under the cow turds and soccer fields [ooops, that's "football" across "The Pond"]

Howza 'bout dat,

GPH

______________________

[Guest]

some people think all conspiracists are nuts.

This is indeed a position to which you would be wise to give some credence.

There are plenty of people out there who are hungry to believe "anything" just so long as it conflicts with official version of events.

In such cases it is clear that somewhere along the line the words "critical thinker" have been confused with "gullible idiot"

[Len Colby]

Shame ! Shame ! Youse guys don't give the whacko-wingnut conspiracy mongers "...any respect around this place..!!" [Rodney Dangerfield]

I hope you don't go and upset one of my prime antagonists on this forum -- he has a nexus to a "muzik-biz" shop called "The Village Idiot".

Maybe the poor girl should have instead hired the kind of stunt drivers who raced around le gran Paree in the movie "Ronin" -- but, then again "The Rich & Famous" have been notably too cheap to pay for genuine "executive protection" specialists. That might affiliate them with the "bloody mercs" !! You know, the kind of folks that go around spreading minefields under the cow turds and soccer fields [ooops, that's "football" across "The Pond"]

Howza 'bout dat,

GPH

______________________

Gerry I didn't get the reference, who is your nemesis? Your Moriarty?

[Guest Stephen Turner]

some people think all conspiracists are nuts.

This is indeed a position to which you would be wise to give some credence.

There are plenty of people out there who are hungry to believe "anything" just so long as it conflicts with official version of events.

In such cases it is clear that somewhere along the line the words "critical thinker" have been confused with "gullible idiot"

Andy, it is important to engage in critical thinking, the trick is to be critical of both sides of the arguement rather than blindly shouting "CONSPIRACY" every five minutes.That being said it is important not to accept every official version, for as history shows conspiracies at the highest level's of State do occur, if you have not done so read Shamus Milnes excellent "Enemy within" It lay's bare the lenghts that the Thatcher Government went to to break the NUM, and later its leader, Arthur Scargill,Thatcher, senior cabinet ministers, The police force, Army intellegence,MI5, and other assorted spooks conspired to 1, defeat the NUM, and to cause a fracture in the trade union movement as a whole. 2, To smear, and discredit Scargill, using a compliant press as judge, jury, and hangman. The first part of the conspiracy worked, for which we are still paying the price, the second part, in the long term, failed but not before much damage had been inflicted. They appear to be playing the same game with Galloway now. Steve.

[Len Colby]

I thought the article was interesting but didn't think it applied to Bush in this case. I am sure that hearing about the plane crash and Princess Di shocked the test subjects but it didn't directly affect them or require any sort of action on their part. This was a "life defining moment" for him and I seriously doubted that even Bush would have false memories of an event of such paramount importance after so short a period of time. Remember the blank look he had on his face after Card gave him the news? He was a green president with only 10 months experience dealing with national security/military foreign affairs matters and was faced with this countries most serious crisis since Pearl Harbor* and he created a false memory? I found that a bit hard to swallow.

I used past tense above because I read the following yesterday. I think this pretty much eliminates the "false memory" defence. Can't say why he did it but there really is no way to refute it he lied. Note the dateline only 22 days after he said, "First of all when we walked into the classroom I had seen this plane fly into the FIRST building, there was a TV set on"

Excerpt from:

America's Chaotic Road to War

Bush's Global Strategy Began to Take Shape in First Frantic Hours After Attack

By Dan Balz and Bob Woodward

Washington Post Staff Writers

Sunday, January 27, 2002;

...

Bush's motorcade left for the school at 8:30 a.m. As it was arriving, pagers and cell phones alerted White House aides that a plane had hit the North Tower of the World Trade Center. Bush remembers senior adviser Karl Rove bringing him the news, saying it appeared to be an accident involving a small, twin-engine plane.

In fact it was American Airlines Flight 11, a Boeing 767 out of Boston's Logan International Airport. Based on what he was told, Bush assumed it was an accident.

"This is pilot error," the president recalled saying. "It's unbelievable that somebody would do this." Conferring with Andrew H. Card Jr., his White House chief of staff, Bush said, "The guy must have had a heart attack."

...

At 9:05 a.m., United Airlines Flight 175, also a Boeing 767, smashed into the South Tower of the trade center. Bush was seated on a stool in the classroom when Card whispered the news: "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack."

Bush remembers exactly what he thought: "They had declared war on us, and I made up my mind at that moment that we were going to war."

...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...42754-2002Jan26

*FDR on the other hand had over 8 1/2 years on the job and the US had been preparing for possible war with the Axis and an attack by the Japanese was NOT unexpected. Not since Lincol has such an inexperienced president had to deal with such a grave crisis.

[Bruce Campbell Adams]

Tanks a lot.

Back to the U.S. Civil War 1860s.

Bruce C. Adamson

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by Bruce Campbell Adams

[Evan Burton]

I said this in another forum, and I think it's just as true here:

If the 'government' faked the moon landings (where there were tens of thousands of personnel involved, warehouses full of technical documentation, thousands of images, the programme was in the public eye, and subject to enormous scientific scrutiny as perhaps the most significant event of history), and the 'government' faked 9/11 (where there were hundreds of people at the scene, a few videotapes of the events themselves, and subject to massive government / public / scientific scrutiny as one of the most significant events in history).... why didn't they fake finding WMDs in Iraq?

The area was under tight control and security, few people would have been involved, the faking (either chemical or nuclear) of WMDs is well within the capability of the forces involved, it would have justified events in Iraq to both domestic & foreign opponents, and it would have been a great PR boost for G.W. Bush.

Yet nothing was found.

Think about it.

[Gerry Hemming]

I said this in another forum, and I think it's just as true here:

If the 'government' faked the moon landings (where there were tens of thousands of personnel involved, warehouses full of technical documentation, thousands of images, the programme was in the public eye, and subject to enormous scientific scrutiny as perhaps the most significant event of history), and the 'government' faked 9/11 (where there were hundreds of people at the scene, a few videotapes of the events themselves, and subject to massive government / public / scientific scrutiny as one of the most significant events in history).... why didn't they fake finding WMDs in Iraq?

The area was under tight control and security, few people would have been involved, the faking (either chemical or nuclear) of WMDs is well within the capability of the forces involved, it would have justified events in Iraq to both domestic & foreign opponents, and it would have been a great PR boost for G.W. Bush.

Yet nothing was found.

Think about it.

------------------------------------

As was stated previously. Whenever POTUS travels, be it "Marine-1" (USMC HMX-1 Helicopter Squadron, now based at MCB Quantico - same locale as the FBI Academy & the FBI H.R.T.) -- or in the Boeing 747 "Air Force-1" -- the FAA continously provides a wide circle of security for ALL POTUS, VPOTUS & VIP aircraft while enroute to their destinations.

The FAA styles these as T.F.R.s (Temporary Flight Restictions [zones]] which are treated just as seriously as the "P" circle on all aeronautical charts [Flight Prohibition Area]!! Said "P-Area" was previously centered on the White House area, but since 9/11 has been widened to include all of Washington, D.C. !! The FAA "TFRs" are in reality -- "Moving Prohibited Areas"; but are difficult for unauthorized folks to monitor, even with the $9.95 per/month software program styled as "Flight Follower".

The public is encouraged to use this program, which monitors ALL aircraft which are flying on an "Instrument Flight Rules" [i.F.R.] flight plan -- excepting of course Air Force-1 and many other military and civilian "security flights"; such as the now infamous CIA "Rendition Flights". FAA Regulations require that ALL aircraft flying above 12, 500 feet msl are REQUIRED to file (well in advance of takeoff) an IFR flight plan.

The public oftentimes get anxious about family & friends air travel schedules. Therefore many have opted to monitor specific commercial airline flight schedules and enroute activities. This keeps them abreast of both flight delays and early arrival times. Moreover: this provides a "heads-up" as to whether they must drive to the airport as per previously announced -- or delay same due to the enroute delay. Or, in the event of an early arriva, scramble to the airport to meet their parties.

As for the Secret Service protocols activated during the 9/11 attacks, USSS "Protective Research" gives continous threat updates -- both to the "onsight protective entities", and the "National Command Center".

The NCC based USSS "Control Group" sits at computer & communications consoles. If the USSS/CG @ the NCC decides that the on site protocols must be abrogated [due to latest threat intelligence] -- then orders are given immediately to change some; or all of the executive protection/tactical protocols.

This means that the POTUS "onsite/enroute" teams might well be ordered to use surface transportation and even avoid going near Air Force-1!! That is: Should Intel give warnings that the 747 is either NOT in a secure locale; OR that takeoff and/or enroute threats have been discovered.

The previous post hinted at SAM threats. While Air Force-1 indeed has anti-MANPADS countermeasure modules installed -- which include laser devices, E.C.M (Electronic Counter-Measures), chaff-foil dispensers, flare dispensers, etc.!!

However, the new Russian "Stinger" type MANPADS [beginning with the SAM-17 series] carries upgraded anti-countermeasure devices; which might foil ALL of the Air Force-1 CMs !! Moreover, intelligence community sources have advised the Congress, et al. that: Some of these advanced design MANPADS have been inside CONUS since 1998 !!

The Israeli commercial airline "El Al" is constantly updating their anti-MANPADS, air-to-air, and mobile SAM

threats.

Without a doubt, on that tragic "date of infamy" (9/11), once POTUS had just about finished his "children's goat story", the USSS NCC controllers had already decided that immediate departure by Air Force-1 was the safest option. And this was the result of rapid scanning of all FAA, military & commercial radar "repeater" scopes -- then being displayed on their NCC computer consoles.

The first worry is the number of aircraft in the immediate vicinity -- especially those which are NOT "squawking" transponder codes. Most of these "blips" are the result of airplaneswhich are then flying under VFR (Visiual Flight Rules). VFR aircraft don't require an FAA "flight Plan", nor "Flight Following" radar surveillance. The primary focus of their scrutiny is: The estimated size and speed of the "radar return blips".

For instance, a large blip which appears to be above 12,500 ft. msl, and is NOT "squawking" an IFR code number, automatically is labeled as a "Hostile Bogey". If it obviously deviates from its flight path,and flies toward where POTUS is situated [on ground or in the air] -- it is immediately labled as a "Hostile Bandit"!!

The S.O.P. for POTUS routing while under "potential imminent threat of attack" is either to a nearby bunker facility [police or military] which has FEMA approved communications capability. The secondary option is immediate diversion [if airborne] to the primary ["ex-S.A.C.", and now NORAD] command center at Offutt Air Force Base.

Cheyenne Mountain is NOT an option, because there are NO air base facilities located closer than Colorado Springs AFB. Returning POTUS to the Washington D.C. "Maximum Threat Area" [Washington, D.C.] is out of the question!!

The available enroute protection for Air Force-1 is primarily the airborne command center platform styled as "Looking Glass"!! That "platform" itself is also supported by a nearby AWACS "Scanner Bird" -- which provides up to 300 miles of radar detection capability.

A C.A.P. ["Combat Air Patrol"] of escort fighters is launched, and are promptly directed to position themselves in a formation which then flies parallel to AF-1's flightpath -- but are NOT allowed to fly in close proximity to POTUS.

Primarily this is soas to avoid causing "radar clutter", and more importantly: To avoid any possibility that the escorting fighters might inadvertently become engaged in a "friendly fire event"!! Said "F/F Event" might well occur when: ordered to interdict and attack a designated "Bandit" -- and subsequent to their having received a "Call Sign/Buster" command, air-to-air missiles are launched !! A "stray friendly" A/A missile might well penetrate ALL of the AF-1 countermeasures and cause a strike !!

Oftentimes, "Out-Rider" Hawk-Eye Radar/ECM aircraft are launched, and thereafter provide an even wider cordon of protection/detection for an enroute AF-1.

POTUS has very little to say about any of these activities. And it would be especially foolish for a president,

[especially one who is an "ex-fighter jock"] -- to either countermand: Or even attempt to offer advice to those professionals, who have the firm mandate to provide executive protection !!

I am open to any expert opinions on this matter.

Chairs,

GPH

__________________________

[Evan Burton]

I said this in another forum, and I think it's just as true here:

If the 'government' faked the moon landings (where there were tens of thousands of personnel involved, warehouses full of technical documentation, thousands of images, the programme was in the public eye, and subject to enormous scientific scrutiny as perhaps the most significant event of history), and the 'government' faked 9/11 (where there were hundreds of people at the scene, a few videotapes of the events themselves, and subject to massive government / public / scientific scrutiny as one of the most significant events in history).... why didn't they fake finding WMDs in Iraq?

The area was under tight control and security, few people would have been involved, the faking (either chemical or nuclear) of WMDs is well within the capability of the forces involved, it would have justified events in Iraq to both domestic & foreign opponents, and it would have been a great PR boost for G.W. Bush.

Yet nothing was found.

Think about it.

------------------------------------

As was stated previously. Whenever POTUS travels, be it "Marine-1" (USMC HMX-1 Helicopter Squadron, now based at MCB Quantico - same locale as the FBI Academy & the FBI H.R.T.) -- or in the Boeing 747 "Air Force-1" -- the FAA continously provides a wide circle of security for ALL POTUS, VPOTUS & VIP aircraft while enroute to their destinations.

The FAA styles these as T.F.R.s (Temporary Flight Restictions [zones]] which are treated just as seriously as the "P" circle on all aeronautical charts [Flight Prohibition Area]!! Said "P-Area" was previously centered on the White House area, but since 9/11 has been widened to include all of Washington, D.C. !! The FAA "TFRs" are in reality -- "Moving Prohibited Areas"; but are difficult for unauthorized folks to monitor, even with the $9.95 per/month software program styled as "Flight Follower".

The public is encouraged to use this program, which monitors ALL aircraft which are flying on an "Instrument Flight Rules" [i.F.R.] flight plan -- excepting of course Air Force-1 and many other military and civilian "security flights"; such as the now infamous CIA "Rendition Flights". FAA Regulations require that ALL aircraft flying above 12, 500 feet msl are REQUIRED to file (well in advance of takeoff) an IFR flight plan.

The public oftentimes get anxious about family & friends air travel schedules. Therefore many have opted to monitor specific commercial airline flight schedules and enroute activities. This keeps them abreast of both flight delays and early arrival times. Moreover: this provides a "heads-up" as to whether they must drive to the airport as per previously announced -- or delay same due to the enroute delay. Or, in the event of an early arriva, scramble to the airport to meet their parties.

As for the Secret Service protocols activated during the 9/11 attacks, USSS "Protective Research" gives continous threat updates -- both to the "onsight protective entities", and the "National Command Center".

The NCC based USSS "Control Group" sits at computer & communications consoles. If the USSS/CG @ the NCC decides that the on site protocols must be abrogated [due to latest threat intelligence] -- then orders are given immediately to change some; or all of the executive protection/tactical protocols.

This means that the POTUS "onsite/enroute" teams might well be ordered to use surface transportation and even avoid going near Air Force-1!! That is: Should Intel give warnings that the 747 is either NOT in a secure locale; OR that takeoff and/or enroute threats have been discovered.

The previous post hinted at SAM threats. While Air Force-1 indeed has anti-MANPADS countermeasure modules installed -- which include laser devices, E.C.M (Electronic Counter-Measures), chaff-foil dispensers, flare dispensers, etc.!!

However, the new Russian "Stinger" type MANPADS [beginning with the SAM-17 series] carries upgraded anti-countermeasure devices; which might foil ALL of the Air Force-1 CMs !! Moreover, intelligence community sources have advised the Congress, et al. that: Some of these advanced design MANPADS have been inside CONUS since 1998 !!

The Israeli commercial airline "El Al" is constantly updating their anti-MANPADS, air-to-air, and mobile SAM

threats.

Without a doubt, on that tragic "date of infamy" (9/11), once POTUS had just about finished his "children's goat story", the USSS NCC controllers had already decided that immediate departure by Air Force-1 was the safest option. And this was the result of rapid scanning of all FAA, military & commercial radar "repeater" scopes -- then being displayed on their NCC computer consoles.

The first worry is the number of aircraft in the immediate vicinity -- especially those which are NOT "squawking" transponder codes. Most of these "blips" are the result of airplaneswhich are then flying under VFR (Visiual Flight Rules). VFR aircraft don't require an FAA "flight Plan", nor "Flight Following" radar surveillance. The primary focus of their scrutiny is: The estimated size and speed of the "radar return blips".

For instance, a large blip which appears to be above 12,500 ft. msl, and is NOT "squawking" an IFR code number, automatically is labeled as a "Hostile Bogey". If it obviously deviates from its flight path,and flies toward where POTUS is situated [on ground or in the air] -- it is immediately labled as a "Hostile Bandit"!!

The S.O.P. for POTUS routing while under "potential imminent threat of attack" is either to a nearby bunker facility [police or military] which has FEMA approved communications capability. The secondary option is immediate diversion [if airborne] to the primary ["ex-S.A.C.", and now NORAD] command center at Offutt Air Force Base.

Cheyenne Mountain is NOT an option, because there are NO air base facilities located closer than Colorado Springs AFB. Returning POTUS to the Washington D.C. "Maximum Threat Area" [Washington, D.C.] is out of the question!!

The available enroute protection for Air Force-1 is primarily the airborne command center platform styled as "Looking Glass"!! That "platform" itself is also supported by a nearby AWACS "Scanner Bird" -- which provides up to 300 miles of radar detection capability.

A C.A.P. ["Combat Air Patrol"] of escort fighters is launched, and are promptly directed to position themselves in a formation which then flies parallel to AF-1's flightpath -- but are NOT allowed to fly in close proximity to POTUS.

Primarily this is soas to avoid causing "radar clutter", and more importantly: To avoid any possibility that the escorting fighters might inadvertently become engaged in a "friendly fire event"!! Said "F/F Event" might well occur when: ordered to interdict and attack a designated "Bandit" -- and subsequent to their having received a "Call Sign/Buster" command, air-to-air missiles are launched !! A "stray friendly" A/A missile might well penetrate ALL of the AF-1 countermeasures and cause a strike !!

Oftentimes, "Out-Rider" Hawk-Eye Radar/ECM aircraft are launched, and thereafter provide an even wider cordon of protection/detection for an enroute AF-1.

POTUS has very little to say about any of these activities. And it would be especially foolish for a president,

[especially one who is an "ex-fighter jock"] -- to either countermand: Or even attempt to offer advice to those professionals, who have the firm mandate to provide executive protection !!

I am open to any expert opinions on this matter.

Chairs,

GPH

__________________________

Thanks Gerry - a lot of interesting material there. What it has to do with my comment, I'm not sure - but interesting nonetheless.

Some of the codewords used might not be quite correct.

Our terminology is BOGEY for an unidentified contact, and BANDIT for a hostile contact. Perhaps they use something different, but I'd find the 'hostile bogey' confusing.

Also, 'CALLSIGN / BUSTER" might be misunderstood by some people. In your text, it kinda sounds like it is an order to fire missiles at a bandit.

Normally, BUSTER means 'at maximum possible continuous speed'.

You might expect to hear something like this:

"Tadpole 24, bogey 240 bullseye 55, angels 15. Delouse, buster."

That means:

TADPOLE 24 - Callsign

BOGEY - Unidentified air contact

240 BULLSEYE 55 - Contact is bearing 240 degrees from a prearranged location, 55 nautical miles

ANGELS 15 - Height of contact is 15 thousand feet

DELOUSE - Detect and identify unknown contact trailing friendly forces

BUSTER - Fly at max possible continuous speed

Edited November 24, 2005 by Evan Burton

[Shanet Clark]

............... Reichstag junior ...........

[Shanet Clark]

Dick Cheney Made Millions Off Oil Deals with Saddam Hussein

San Francisco Bay Guardian

November 13, 2000 by Martin A. Lee

Here's a whopper of a story you may have missed amid the cacophony of campaign ads and stump speeches in the run- up to the elections.

During former defense secretary Richard Cheney's five-year tenure as chief executive of Halliburton, Inc., his oil services firm raked in big bucks from dubious commercial dealings with Iraq. Cheney left Halliburton with a $34 million retirement package last July when he became the GOP's vice-presidential candidate.

Of course, U.S. firms aren't generally supposed to do business with Saddam Hussein. But thanks to legal loopholes large enough to steer an oil tanker through, Halliburton profited big-time from deals with the Iraqi dictatorship. Conducted discreetly through several Halliburton subsidiaries in Europe, these greasy transactions helped Saddam Hussein retain his grip on power while lining the pockets of Cheney and company.

According to the Financial Times of London, between September 1998 and last winter, Cheney, as CEO of Halliburton, oversaw $23.8 million of business contracts for the sale of oil-industry equipment and services to Iraq through two of its subsidiaries, Dresser Rand and Ingersoll-Dresser Pump, which helped rebuild Iraq's war-damaged petroleum-production infrastructure. The combined value of these contracts exceeded those of any other U.S. company doing business with Baghdad.

Halliburton was among more than a dozen American firms that supplied Iraq's petroleum industry with spare parts and retooled its oil rigs when U.N. sanctions were eased in 1998. Cheney's company utilized subsidiaries in France, Italy, Germany, and Austria so as not to draw undue attention to controversial business arrangements that might embarrass Washington and jeopardize lucrative ties to Iraq, which will pump $24 billion of petrol under the U.N.-administered oil-for-food program this year. Assisted by Halliburton, Hussein's government will earn another $1 billion by illegally exporting oil through black-market channels.

With Cheney at the helm since 1995, Halliburton quickly grew into America's number-one oil-services company, the fifth-largest military contractor, and the biggest nonunion employer in the nation. Although Cheney claimed that the U.S. government "had absolutely nothing to do" with his firm's meteoric financial success, State Department documents obtained by the Los Angeles Times indicate that U.S. officials helped Halliburton secure major contracts in Asia and Africa. Halliburton now does business in 130 countries and employs more than 100,000 workers worldwide.

Its 1999 income was a cool $15 billion.

In addition to Iraq, Halliburton counts among its business partners several brutal dictatorships that have committed egregious human rights abuses, including the hated military regime in Burma (Myanmar). EarthRights, a Washington, D.C.-based human rights watchdog, condemned Halliburton for two energy-pipeline projects in Burma that led to the forced relocation of villages, rape, murder, indentured labor, and other crimes against humanity.

A full report (this is a 45 page pdf file - there is also a brief summary) on the Burma connection, "Halliburton's Destructive Engagement," can be accessed on EarthRights' Web site

Read Full Article by Martin Lee at the San Fransisco Bay Guardian

[Guest Stephen Turner]

A little off topic, but still dealing with the modern "morals" of the parasite class.

TWO SEPERATE NEWS REPORTS (BBC 1, 2/12/05) THESE AIRED SIDE BY SIDE.

NHS IN £900,000,000 SHORTFALL.

It was reavealed today that the 20 trusts set up to oversee changes in the marketisation of the National Health Service are in debt to the tune of £900,000,000. The minister in charge said "We cant keep writing blank cheques to bail the service out. This might spell the begining of the end for free at the point of need care"

CITY HEDGE FUND MANAGERS IN BONUS HEAVEN.

Top bankers in the city of London are in line for record breaking bonus payouts in the New year. The payouts, anywhere from £1,000,000 to £10,000,000 come at the end of a good year for hedge fund performances. City stockbrokers are readying themselves for a surge in top end property deals in the new year. ANOTHER LUXERY ITEM THAT IS IN GREAT DEMAND IS THE PLATINUM, DIAMOND STUDDED, CELL PHONE REASONABLY PRICED AT £15,050..........

"LET THEM EAT CAKE"

Edited December 2, 2005 by Stephen Turner

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Of course the real change between the above story, and 20 years ago, is that then these oxygene stealers would have kept very quiet about their illgotten "windfall"and salted it away in offshore trusts. Now they feel so confident that nobody will say Boo, that they rub our noses in it. And the sheeple are happy as long as there's beer in the cooler, and sport on the TV.

[Len Colby]

............... Reichstag junior ...........

From what I understand modern historians are of several minds about the Reichstag fire. Almost all believe that Marinus van der Lubbe was some how involved. Did the Nazis set the fire and leave the naked Dutchman at the scene as a scapegoat or was he a patsy who they set up to set the fire and get caught? Or did he as some historians believe set the fire on his own?

What ever the case the Nazis used the fire to their own advantage it was their "casus belli" which they used to effectively end German democracy.

Did the Bush administration know the attacks were coming and intentionally do nothing? I wouldn't be surprised but have yet to see any credible evidence.

Did they engineer 9/11? Were the pilots actually kamikaze Mossad agents or were the planes guided by remote control? Were the towers brought down by controlled demolition? I find such notions absurd and haven’t seen any indications they were true and there are innumerous holes in such theories that their proponents can't explain.

Shanet I assume you believe in the latter theories. If you have any evidence to back your beliefs why don't you try spelling them out rather that be coy?

Edited December 2, 2005 by Len Colby