Is anyone interested in Apollo missions...

[Steve Ulman]

Jack -

Sorry, no disrespect, but I need more proof than your word that the "CNN Video" was shot at 9:0xAM.

Do you have any?

Did you review the links I provided?

Jack -

Any luck validating that "CNN Video"?

Jack - Any luck?

Jack-

I first asked you 48 days ago for proof that the CNN frames you are using for your analysis of WTC-6 were indeed shot at 9:03AM.

Why can't you answer my simple question? Since you continue to update the web page I know you are still working on the subject.

If you are the diligent researcher you claim to be, you should have been able to answer my question within 48 hours, let alone 48 days.

Since you are ignoring me, I can only assume that you either don't have an answer and your web analysis is based on ignorance, or you know the CNN frames are not from 9:03AM and purposely wish to deceive.

Edited December 4, 2005 by Steve Ulman

[Shanet Clark]

Dec. 2, 2005

NEWS ANALYSIS: Able Danger Saga Stirs New 9/11 Claims

By James Rosen

McClatchy Newspapers

Washington, DC (SHNS) -- It's either the grandest conspiracy since the JFK assassination and the grassy knoll or much ado about nothing.

Able Danger, a top-secret military program set up in 1999 to probe the al Qaeda terrorist network, is rekindling fierce debate about the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Military intelligence officers and contractors who ran the clandestine mission, a computer data-mining operation within the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency, claim that more than a year before the attacks, Able Danger identified four of the plot's 19 hijackers and produced a chart that fingered ringleader Mohammed Atta, displayed a photo of him and contained the names of up to 60 al Qaeda operatives around the globe.

Those claims contradict the findings of the 9/11 commission set up by Congress, which in its final report last year spread blame for the attacks across the government but concluded that none of the 19 hijackers, some of whom had lived in the United States for months before Sept. 11, were identified until after the tragedy.

Kristin Breitweiser, a New Jersey woman whose husband died in World Trade Center's south tower, said she and other relatives of some of the 2,986 Sept. 11 victims have met with the military officers who worked on Able Danger, which the Pentagon ended in early 2001.

"It's very upsetting to hear people tell you that your husband and the father of your children didn't have to die because we had information to stop the attacks," Breitweiser said in an interview.

Part of the problem in untangling the Able Danger web is that the computer-based program was designed to search "open source" documents -- everything in the public domain -- for patterns and links among al Qaeda terrorists, but the program as a whole was classified. So, while at least some of its original material was public, it became secret after entering an Able Danger database.

Army Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, a Bronze Star recipient and former Able Danger operative who first came forward with details of the program, says Pentagon lawyers thwarted the team's attempts to pass on their findings to the FBI before the attacks. And he claims that after the attacks, staff members of the 9/11 panel met with him and other Able Danger officers, but then failed to adequately pursue their leads.

"The 9/11 commission may not have 'connected the dots' as completely as they could and should have -- and that is my concern and the concern of others working this issue," Shaffer said in an e-mail to Sept. 11 family members before the Pentagon issued a gag order two months ago, forbidding him and other former Able Danger officers from discussing the program publicly.

Navy Capt. Scott Philpott, who led the Able Danger mission, said in a statement before the Pentagon gag order: "My story is consistent. Atta was identified by Able Danger by January-February of 2000."

After initial refusals to comment, Pentagon officials have acknowledged that Able Danger existed. Army Maj. Eric Kleinsmith told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Sept. 21 that he had complied with orders to destroy 2.4 terabytes of computer data produced by Able Danger -- 2,400 gigabytes, or about one-quarter the size of all the books in the Library of Congress.

Kleinsmith and other Pentagon officials have cited privacy laws, which they say prohibit the government from maintaining secret files on U.S. citizens or non-citizens in the country on legal visas.

Rep. Curt Weldon, a Pennsylvania Republican with extensive foreign-affairs experience, has taken up the Able Danger officers' cause. Calling Able Danger "the most important story of my lifetime," Weldon last week sent Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld a letter signed by 246 lawmakers, split almost evenly between Republicans and Democrats, demanding that the program's officers and contractors be allowed to testify in open congressional hearings.

"Further refusal ... can only lead us to conclude that the Department of Defense is uncomfortable with the prospect of members of Congress questioning these individuals about the circumstances surrounding Able Danger," the letter said. "This would suggest not a concern for national security, but rather an attempt to prevent potentially embarrassing facts from coming to light."

In a speech on the House floor last month, Weldon said the Able Danger saga is more important than the Watergate scandal that brought down President Richard Nixon.

"I am not a conspiracy theorist, but there is something desperately wrong," he said. "There is something outrageous at work here. This is not a third-rate burglary of a political campaign headquarters. This involved what is right now the covering-up of information that led to the deaths of 3,000 people, changed the course of history, led to the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, and has disrupted our country, our economy and people's lives."

Weldon also accuses the Pentagon of engaging in a smear campaign against Shaffer, 42, since the colonel went public, by revoking his security clearance, suspending him, and leaking alleged details from his personnel file to reporters and congressional aides. Among the slurs, Weldon says, are claims that Shaffer was having an affair with a Weldon aide -- which Shaffer's lawyer vehemently denies -- that he sought reimbursement for personal cell phone calls, and even that he stole pens from a U.S. embassy where his father was based when Shaffer was 15 years old.

"There is something desperately wrong when a military officer (Shaffer) risks his life in Afghanistan time and again, embedded with our troops under an assumed name with a false beard and a false identity ... gets castigated, gets ridiculed, gets some low-life scum at the Pentagon spreading malicious lies about this individual," Weldon told fellow lawmakers.

In response to a request by Rep. Duncan Hunter, a California Republican and chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, the Defense Department's inspector general is investigating the alleged smear campaign against Shaffer.

In the Senate, Republican Sen. Arlen Specter, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, accused the Pentagon of possible "obstruction of the committee's activities" after the Defense Department forbade Shaffer, Philpott and other Able Danger analysts from testifying before the panel.

Specter and Pentagon officials are negotiating conditions for an open hearing.

"The American people are entitled to some answers," Specter said. "It is not a matter of attaching blame. It is a matter of correcting errors so that we don't have a repetition of 9/11."

The Senate Intelligence Committee, meanwhile, has heard closed-door testimony from Able Danger members and Pentagon employees, and it is nearing completion of a report.

Weldon is an unlikely Pentagon antagonist. Since first being elected to the House in 1986, he has been a defense hawk, consistently pushing for larger Pentagon budgets and new programs. Weldon speaks Russian, has led dozens of congressional delegations to Russia and the former Soviet Union, and has traveled to Libya, North Korea and other countries to deliver stern messages to dictators.

Weldon's crusade on Able Danger, though, has drawn derision in some quarters, even from some current or former lawmakers who have known him for years.

"By the way he talks about Able Danger these days, you'd think it would have prevented Pearl Harbor," said Timothy Roemer, a former Indiana Republican congressman and member of the 9/11 commission.

Lee Hamilton, a former Indiana Democratic lawmaker who co-chaired the 9/11 panel, said he worked closely with and respects Weldon because the two shared interests in defense and intelligence matters. But he said the commission investigated the Able Danger officers' claims exhaustively and could not find evidence to support them.

"We've asked for that chart repeatedly," Hamilton said in an interview. "The Pentagon cannot produce it, the White House cannot produce it and Weldon cannot produce it."

Breitweiser said she is confident additional facts about Able Danger will emerge.

"As more and more information is coming out, more and more Americans are questioning how this attack could have happened," Breitweiser said. "We're finding out we are not being told the truth. A lot of information was known, and the attacks could have been prevented."

By James Rosen

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Just as with Watergate Inch, by painful inch the shameful truth slowly emerges.. Expect minor heads to start rolling sometime next year..

[William Kelly]

The 911 Commission, after a year persuading Congress and the Pres to impliment their 41 recomindations, officially disbanded yesterday - Monday, Dec. 5.

It ended with a crying thanks from a victim family member, who must have been screened to provide the pathetic wrapup. I don't think the Jersey Girls were there.

I spent two years following the exploits of the 911 Commission, and wrote two reports - on Air Defense StandDown and John O'Neill.

Able Danger was exposed by renegade Republican Congressman from Philadelphia Curt Weldon, and the public hearings are being held up by another Philly lawyer, Arlen Spector. Weldon was also instrumental in the back channel negotiations with Quadafi, via his son, in reestablishing diplomatic and trade relations with Libya.

Some of the demoted and repremanded whistleblowers are being represented by Mark Zaid, Esq., a jfk researcher turned foia lawyer under Jim Lesar's wings, and now attorney for spy guys - especially whistleblowers like Sybil, CIA and the Able Danger DOD guys.

They say all the offical docments were destroyed routinely, just like they said about Oswald's military records, but I don't believe it. As John Newman said, copies are made and distributed of all documents, and they can't destroy them all.

When Peter Noyes wrote in his book Legacy of Doubt that Jim Braden's 1948 Camden arrest report was being withheld from him because the Camden PD was controlled by the mob, I showed that passage to my father, then a Lt. in the Camden PD and he handed me the original file the next day. "The secretaries in the records office didn't want to go down into the cellar and get dirty," he explained. So much for the mob control of America's most dangerous city.

I am persuaded by Jeff Morley's reasoned arguments that one day we will know it all, and all the records will be released, about JFK, MLK, Watergate and 911 Able Danger, it's just a matter of getting the public to insist on the enforcement of the JFK Act and demand that all the records of government be open to the public at some point in time.

BK

[Ron Ecker]

I like this clip of the symmetrical collapse of WTC7, which wasn't even hit by a plane. Just had some debris damage and scattered fires inside. (That'll bring 'em down every time!)

[Ron Ecker]

What is a sprog?

[Jack White]

Like a child repeating "Are we there yet, daddy?" Mr. Uhlman keeps asking the

same infantile question without bothering to find out for himself.

Quote:

The unexplained blast occurred between the burning North Tower and the

47-story Salomon Brothers Building, known as WTC 7, immediately after United

Airlines Flight 175 smashed into the South Tower, at about 9:03 a.m.

The explosion at WTC 6 was shown afterward on CNN. But because it was not

broadcast as it happened there has been some confusion about when it actually

occurred.

The large amount of smoke seen cascading around the South Tower in the video

led some observers to mistake the blast for a dust cloud from the subsequent

collapse of the tower.

TIMING CONFIRMED

American Free Press contacted CNN to determine exactly when the footage was

filmed.

CNN’s Public Affairs Department confirmed that the explosion shown in the

footage occurred immediately after the second plane had crashed into the South

Tower. When asked if the footage was taken at 9:04 a.m., the CNN archivist said

“that’s correct.”

When asked if CNN could offer any explanation about what might have caused

the blast that soared higher than the 47-story WTC 7 in the foreground, the

archivist said: “We can’t figure it out.”

The affected space between WTC 7 and the North Tower was occupied by the

Customs House building, also known as WTC 6. The building housed the offices

of 760 employees of the Customs Service, a part of Treasury. Other federal

agencies had offices in the building, including the Departments of Commerce,

Agriculture, Labor, and the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. They did

not return calls to AFP about the matter.

A spokesman for the Export-Import Bank of the United States, which had an

office with four employees on the sixth floor of the Customs House, confirmed

the time of the explosion and told AFP that the employees had survived and been

relocated. One private company, Eastco Building Services, Inc., reportedly leased

space in the building.

Some 800 workers from WTC 6 were safely evacuated within 12 minutes of the

first plane hitting the North Tower at about 8:46 a.m., according to a Sept. 18

Washington Post article by Stephen Barr. "

Please do your own research and quit hassling me to do it for you.

Jack

[Guest Stephen Turner]

What is a sprog?

Ron, Brit slang for a baby, or small child, another, more derogatory term is "Rugrat" Here endeth the first leson in authentic Limey speak.

[Steve Ulman]

Like a child repeating "Are we there yet, daddy?" Mr. Uhlman keeps asking the

same infantile question without bothering to find out for himself.

Quote:

The unexplained blast occurred between the burning North Tower and the

47-story Salomon Brothers Building, known as WTC 7, immediately after United

Airlines Flight 175 smashed into the South Tower, at about 9:03 a.m.

The explosion at WTC 6 was shown afterward on CNN. But because it was not

broadcast as it happened there has been some confusion about when it actually

occurred.

The large amount of smoke seen cascading around the South Tower in the video

led some observers to mistake the blast for a dust cloud from the subsequent

collapse of the tower.

TIMING CONFIRMED

American Free Press contacted CNN to determine exactly when the footage was

filmed.

CNN’s Public Affairs Department confirmed that the explosion shown in the

footage occurred immediately after the second plane had crashed into the South

Tower. When asked if the footage was taken at 9:04 a.m., the CNN archivist said

“that’s correct.”

When asked if CNN could offer any explanation about what might have caused

the blast that soared higher than the 47-story WTC 7 in the foreground, the

archivist said: “We can’t figure it out.”

The affected space between WTC 7 and the North Tower was occupied by the

Customs House building, also known as WTC 6. The building housed the offices

of 760 employees of the Customs Service, a part of Treasury. Other federal

agencies had offices in the building, including the Departments of Commerce,

Agriculture, Labor, and the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. They did

not return calls to AFP about the matter.

A spokesman for the Export-Import Bank of the United States, which had an

office with four employees on the sixth floor of the Customs House, confirmed

the time of the explosion and told AFP that the employees had survived and been

relocated. One private company, Eastco Building Services, Inc., reportedly leased

space in the building.

Some 800 workers from WTC 6 were safely evacuated within 12 minutes of the

first plane hitting the North Tower at about 8:46 a.m., according to a Sept. 18

Washington Post article by Stephen Barr. "

Please do your own research and quit hassling me to do it for you.

Jack

Jack -

First of all you are such a crack researcher that you can't even bother to look on this forum an spell my name correctly.

Secondly - I have researched the CNN video as I stated earlier (which you obviously didn't read but as an expert researcher, should have!) and there is no record of it on the CNN archive Site - I trust the CNN Archive site more than the AFP - or are you contending that CNN is in on the cover-up. (BTY - Does anyone besides Jack trust AFP as a real research source?)

Thirdly - As the one making the claims as the original researcher it is incumbent on you to provide the cites and references for your claims - not the other way around.

Fourthly - did you bother to review the links I provided that refute the timing of your "video" - BTY for all those reading (and as stated earlier) as far as I can tell the gif animation Jack is using as an authentic "Video" was created by Kent Steadman - http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/ - Check out his web site and decide for yourself if he is credible!

[Dawn Meredith]

[quote name='Len Colby' date='Nov 8 2005, 01:25 PM' post='44548']

[steve you're such a dupe, you believe everything the corporate controlled media wants you to. Tom Flocco has access to a secret CIA document which reports that witness saw Tony Blair, Queen Elizabeth and Michael Harari near Di's car moments before it crashed!

Len,

I have been following Di's case since the inception and agree that there is a lot of evidence that this was not an accidental death. However be careful with Flocco. He says some outrageous things, but can never back them up with fact. Just a few months back he had W himself all but indicted by the Special prosecutor. Tho we may get to see this go as high as Rove, or higher. That would be mighty interesting.

Telling that Diana wrote in her diary that she feared being murdered by Charles in a car crash. Errie.

Dawn

[Len Colby]

quote name='Len Colby' date='Nov 8 2005, 01:25 PM' post='44548']

Steve you're such a dupe, you believe everything the corporate controlled media wants you to. Tom Flocco has access to a secret CIA document which reports that witness saw Tony Blair, Queen Elizabeth and Michael Harari near Di's car moments before it crashed!

Len,

I have been following Di's case since the inception and agree that there is a lot of evidence that this was not an accidental death. However be careful with Flocco. He says some outrageous things, but can never back them up with fact. Just a few months back he had W himself all but indicted by the Special prosecutor. Tho we may get to see this go as high as Rove, or higher. That would be mighty interesting.

Telling that Diana wrote in her diary that she feared being murdered by Charles in a car crash. Errie.

Dawn

Dawn I was trying to be humorous. Flocco is a first rate nut job! I was spoofing his claim that Bush Sr. and Jr. and Harari were seen fiddling with John-John's plane (see Jack W's John-John thread).

Care to elaborate on the evidence that Di's death was a hit? In light of doubts already cast on this thread?

I believe our and other goverments and corporations and powerful individuals often do nefarious things that get covered up. The more people asscribe to crackpot CTs the harder it is to get most people to take real sculdugery seriously.

[Jack White]

Like a child repeating "Are we there yet, daddy?" Mr. Uhlman keeps asking the

same infantile question without bothering to find out for himself.

Quote:

The unexplained blast occurred between the burning North Tower and the

47-story Salomon Brothers Building, known as WTC 7, immediately after United

Airlines Flight 175 smashed into the South Tower, at about 9:03 a.m.

The explosion at WTC 6 was shown afterward on CNN. But because it was not

broadcast as it happened there has been some confusion about when it actually

occurred.

The large amount of smoke seen cascading around the South Tower in the video

led some observers to mistake the blast for a dust cloud from the subsequent

collapse of the tower.

TIMING CONFIRMED

American Free Press contacted CNN to determine exactly when the footage was

filmed.

CNN’s Public Affairs Department confirmed that the explosion shown in the

footage occurred immediately after the second plane had crashed into the South

Tower. When asked if the footage was taken at 9:04 a.m., the CNN archivist said

“that’s correct.”

When asked if CNN could offer any explanation about what might have caused

the blast that soared higher than the 47-story WTC 7 in the foreground, the

archivist said: “We can’t figure it out.”

The affected space between WTC 7 and the North Tower was occupied by the

Customs House building, also known as WTC 6. The building housed the offices

of 760 employees of the Customs Service, a part of Treasury. Other federal

agencies had offices in the building, including the Departments of Commerce,

Agriculture, Labor, and the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. They did

not return calls to AFP about the matter.

A spokesman for the Export-Import Bank of the United States, which had an

office with four employees on the sixth floor of the Customs House, confirmed

the time of the explosion and told AFP that the employees had survived and been

relocated. One private company, Eastco Building Services, Inc., reportedly leased

space in the building.

Some 800 workers from WTC 6 were safely evacuated within 12 minutes of the

first plane hitting the North Tower at about 8:46 a.m., according to a Sept. 18

Washington Post article by Stephen Barr. "

Please do your own research and quit hassling me to do it for you.

Jack

Jack -

First of all you are such a crack researcher that you can't even bother to look on this forum an spell my name correctly.

Secondly - I have researched the CNN video as I stated earlier (which you obviously didn't read but as an expert researcher, should have!) and there is no record of it on the CNN archive Site - I trust the CNN Archive site more than the AFP - or are you contending that CNN is in on the cover-up. (BTY - Does anyone besides Jack trust AFP as a real research source?)

Thirdly - As the one making the claims as the original researcher it is incumbent on you to provide the cites and references for your claims - not the other way around.

Fourthly - did you bother to review the links I provided that refute the timing of your "video" - BTY for all those reading (and as stated earlier) as far as I can tell the gif animation Jack is using as an authentic "Video" was created by Kent Steadman - http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/ - Check out his web site and decide for yourself if he is credible!

I suppose you claim Mr. Steadman also created this NBC video frame of the same event.

Jack

[Ron Ecker]

I don't remember the source or details (it's been a few years since I read it), but the way in which Diana was killed was very similar to a previous assassination plot that was aborted (don't remember why) against someone else (don't remember who) by some intelligence agency (don't remember which). I recall that it involved a blinding light to cause a car crash. I'll have to search for it again when I get the chance.

[James Richards]

Given the known details regarding Diana's death, one would have to say that it was a tragic accident. Trying to stage a deliberate car crash is fraught with failure at all levels.

Having said that, when unanswered questions like the mysterious Fiat that the Mercedes sideswiped before entering the tunnel exist (Fiat driver and vehicle never seen again), it does leave fertile ground for conspiracy speculation.

I guess it boils down to the reality that the public are suspicious of government findings. In some cases, rightly so.

FWIW.

James

[Len Colby]

Jack

1- Provide evidence this shot was from NBC.

2 - One of the central quetions is timing when was this supposed NBC frame taken. Can you substantiate when it was taken and wasn't altered?

3- You have yet to come up with one civil engineer or architect from anywhere in the World who supports your claims about WTCs 1 & 2. As far as I can tell none do, not even ones from countries like Iran and Cuba which are hostile to the US, why do you suppose that is?

4 - Why do you quote neo-Nazi sites like AFP do you find them credible? What about their claims that the Holocaust was a hoax, do you find those credible too? AFP is published by Willis Carto try googling his name.

Jack you are one making claims it is incumbant on you to offer evidence that they are true. Much to your buddy Fetzer's chagrin I backed my challenges to his theories with evidence.