Kerry Thornley: A New Look

[James DiEugenio]

What makes me angry is how much we would know if Connick had not done what he did, that is sent some of JG's files to the incinerator.

He actually tried to throw in jail the two guys who blew the whistle on him for this, detective Gary Raymond and reporter Richard Angelico..

There were actually hearings and trials and they were ruled against and sentenced.  They appealed and the sentencing was overruled.

Funny about Garrison.  Reads the volumes, notices the Oswald flyer, walks down to Camp Street and presto: a whole mosaic uncovers.

Which the FBI knew about and had tried to cover up.

Through those files that Lyon  Garrison had, plus the ones the ARRB sued for to get from Connick, which he had thought he burned  but missed, that is how people like Bill Davy and Joan Mellen and myself wrote books.  Which, in some ways, went beyond Garrison's.

BTW, let me add just one last point on this, although Garrison started reading the books on the Power Elite to understand what happened to Kennedy, Garrison would talk to and communicate with all comers who he thought had info on the case.  The way he found out about Vietnam was through this professor from Ohio University.  He wrote Garrison a 26 paged handwritten letter entitled something like, "How Kennedy's Murder Escalated the Vietnam War".  I always wondered how Garrison got onto that angle and that was it. This was part of those archives Lyon Garrison turned over and Connick could not send to the incinerator.

[John Butler]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Funny about Garrison.  Reads the volumes, notices the Oswald flyer, walks down to Camp Street and presto: a whole mosaic uncovers.

 

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

BTW, let me add just one last point on this, although Garrison started reading the books on the Power Elite to understand what happened to Kennedy, Garrison would talk to and communicate with all comers who he thought had info on the case.  The way he found out about Vietnam was through this professor from Ohio University.  He wrote Garrison a 26 paged handwritten letter entitled something like, "How Kennedy's Murder Escalated the Vietnam War".  I always wondered how Garrison got onto that angle and that was it. This was part of those archives Lyon Garrison turned over and Connick could not send to the incinerator.

Garrison was a legal pro in New Orleans for a long time.  He knew the city, it's organizations, the people and had contacts and informers.  I would suspect the deal of walking down Camp Street was a cover for the people he knew who provided him with information.

[Ron Bulman]

"Funny about Garrison, Reads the volumes, notices the Oswald flyer, walks down to Camp Street and presto: a whole mosaic uncovers."

Classic, Jim.  A cosmic moment for Garrison.  Takes me back to p. 103 of Destiny Betrayed, 544 Camp Street, no wait, wait 531 Lafayette.  A bingo moment for me.  A never well addressed point Imho.  

[Greg Doudna]

Mr. DiEugenio, fascinating background on Kerry Thornley and Garrison. This is interesting where you write:

"The way he found out about Vietnam was through this professor from Ohio University.  He wrote Garrison a 26 paged handwritten letter entitled something like, "How Kennedy's Murder Escalated the Vietnam War". I always wondered how Garrison got onto that angle and that was it."

Is that 26-page letter accessible online, or published, anywhere? Maybe the professor published on this theme elsewhere? 

It does seem that JFK was considered out of step and then ended up dead, though it also seems that LBJ did not go along with, and with Hoover, killed the idea of blaming Cuba for the assassination as a casus bellus for direct war and invasion of Cuba. 

Although the political circumstances were different, in the mid-1980s Gorbachev and Reagan met in Iceland, took a walk in the woods, and came out with Gorbachev having agreed to Reagan's (rhetorical, in campaign speeches and State of the Union address) desire to rid the world of nuclear weapons. Gorbachev and Reagan came out of their walk in the woods with agreement to a four-stage plan for world nuclear disarmament and directions to their respective staffs to get to work writing up the specifics of Stage One. Reagan's staff was horrified--as Haig soon explained in Time magazine, Reagan's offer never had been intended to be taken seriously (voters for Reagan were not informed of that slight detail). Reagan's staff quickly walked Reagan back from the horrifying prospect of an end to nuclear weapons on earth, Reagan's campaign promises notwithstanding. A deciding factor was objection from the Pentagon to the idea of multilateral nuclear disarmament, not on the grounds that the Gorbachev-Reagan deal couldn't be done, but rather a budget argument--nuclear deterrence was cheaper than paying for standing armies, to deter invasion.

But never mind that--the detail that stands out to me was a senior Reagan White House staffer (unfortunately I do not recall who, or have details on this, just memory of long ago reading this) who explained in a speech to fellow Republicans words to the effect that "Reagan had gotten out of step with the Reagan Administration".

Nov. 22, 1963 seems to be what happened when JFK got too far out of step with the government. There was a crime, there was a coverup, and the ones who did it got away with it. And at this point, analogous to a dysfunctional family which has no desire to open up skeletons in the closet of grandparents' era, there is no will or perceived realistic prospect of ever solving the crime (referring to mainstream perception). 

[Ron Bulman]

I just finished reading part II.  I'm kind of flabbergasted at how little I knew about Thornley.  As a result of part I I went back and re read what I'd forgotten about him from Destiny Betrayed but this is so far beyond that it's stunning.  He really played a major role in the cover up, and it seems it was orchestrated.  

His statement on public TV in 1992 is damning regarding his hate of JFK.  "I would have stood there with a rifle and pulled the trigger if I would have had the chance".  Somebody channeled that hate.  For the Warren Omission and tried to for Garrison.  Thornley was right in the middle of New Orleans in the summer of 1963, literally with Oswald, Ferrie, Smith Banister and more.  So he was involved in more than just the cover up.  I wonder if he got paychecks signed by George Joannidies?  His attitude towards JFK coincides well with that of Morales, "We got that son of a bitch didn't we".

 

[Ron Bulman]

22 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

"Funny about Garrison, Reads the volumes, notices the Oswald flyer, walks down to Camp Street and presto: a whole mosaic uncovers."

Classic, Jim.  A cosmic moment for Garrison.  Takes me back to p. 103 of Destiny Betrayed, 544 Camp Street, no wait, wait 531 Lafayette.  A bingo moment for me.  A never well addressed point Imho.  

544 Camp street has seemed so mysterious to me for years.  An entrance on Camp.  An entrance on Lafayette.  Two addresses, 544 Camp and 531 Lafayette.  The first used on Oswald's FPCC pamphlets.  The latter used by the FBI  in reference to the location to the Warren Omission.  Location of Banister's office with Cubans coming and going frequently, Oswald, Ferrie,  Sergio Arcacha Smith, many more.  That Oswald used a office there, that the janitor cleared of evidence after the assassination.

I read somewhere once the two doors/addresses led to two different sets of stairs  to the same hallway.  How did all that work?  One door opened on to Camp, the other door onto the corner at an angle, thus Lafayette.  You can see it here if you look close.

 https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=WwL7cabx&id=CB013212A1EBB88DF7328A43FD3E84938AEEE95E&thid=OIP.WwL7cabxM989LKm9nDpapwHaF5&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2f22novembernetwork.files.wordpress.com%2f2017%2f03%2f544campstbuilding2.png%3fw%3d690%26h%3d549&exph=420&expw=528&q=newman+building+544+camp+street+new+orleans&simid=608041693949264808&ck=2C2B970E4071468DADBBF0A9CFFDE96A&selectedIndex=2&qpvt=newman+building+544+camp+street+new+orleans&ajaxhist=0

I also thought I've read somewhere (not DB)  about a block or so away was the Post Office where the offices of the FBI, INS and more were located at the time.  But  I don't see a post office close by on google maps these days,  the Hale Boggs Federal building replaced it per DB.  In the same block is the Courthouse and the US Court of Appeals.  In a bizarre series of transactions the US government bought the Newman building at 544 Camp street in 1973.  Then razed it in 1973.

Page 113 of DB refers to David Lewis, a former investigator for Banister who said he "saw Oswald in the summer of 1963 in a restaurant housed in the Camp street building".  Hmm, I forgot about this, interesting.  

Note the JAX sign in this picture above and between the two doors in this picture.  

 https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=H7Xjshn0&id=FEF8BC1E6A2EC74164A6A25E1DAB6B089737D8A7&thid=OIP.H7Xjshn0-1ku_MJbg7_ToAAAAA&mediaurl=http%3A%2F%2Fgrandsubversion.com%2FjfkAssassination%2Fimages%2Flee_oswald%2F544_Camp_St._street.jpg&exph=300&expw=400&q=newman+building+544+camp+street+new+orleans&simid=608041165668421546&ck=7D2323C4D25A1D74B5C6F5D8CD9B792D&selectedindex=1&qpvt=newman+building+544+camp+street+new+orleans&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&sim=11

A new Orleans Tradition.

https://www.ebay.com/i/333612959321?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=333612959321&targetid=4580840327039639&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=301076556&mkgroupid=1235851265215130&rlsatarget=pla-4580840327039639&abcId=1129776&merchantid=51291&msclkid=92d1049690761b2a09e95a62879de848

 

[James DiEugenio]

Time to catch up;

To Mr. Butler:  I would not be surprised at all if that is the way it happened. JG asked someone, hey was not 544 Camp Street where Guy Banister had his offices, the Newman Building? And someone like Ivon said, yes it was.  

Greg:  that 26 page letter was sent to me by the great Peter Vea, who was the early version of Malcolm Blunt.  Peter worked out of NARA.  God, I really wish I had written a memo on that guy and his letter.  So I could at least recall his name.  At that time, about 1994, Peter was sending me stuff so fast I could not read it quickly enough. But I recall being struck by how insightful that essay was for the time it was written, like 1968.   And  I agree about what happened to Reagan and Gorby.  Not just his own staff, but Kissinger and Nixon also put the brakes on the Walk in the Woods.

About LBJ and Hoover putting the skids to any counter against Cuba:  have never been able to figure out that one with precision.  Did LBJ really buy into that pile of baloney from the CIA, which Hoover himself questioned?  Was he just playing it safe?  Did he suspect what really happened?  Was he informed ?  If  the last was it before or after?  I mean Hoover was up to his eyeballs in the cover up.  

Thanks so much Ron.  I actually kind of surprised myself on this.  I mean I forgot how bad Thornley's testimony was. And how buddy buddy he was with Jenner.   The thing that is so striking about Thornley is that, at one time or another, he denied  knowing anybody.  When, in fact, he was in the middle of this whole RW/ CIA subculture around Oswald. That is why I  used the old detective joke: according to Thornley he was the guy downstairs in the bordello playing the piano not knowing anything that was going on upstairs.  That is what he really wanted you to think about him.

The most tantalizing thing to me about writing this was probably the angle about Albert Schweitzer College.  Did Thornley know about Oswald's defection in advance?  Garrison did not think that, as the witness testified, Thornley started writing his book upon news of the defection. Garrison thought he was writing it before.  If you combine that with Thornley's association with that New Orleans subculture, then it was simply too dangerous for him to admit he knew all of these people.  Then his whole testimony would have been revealed for what it was: prepackaged stagecraft.  Which, of course, he could not keep his mouth shut about: he told two people LHO was not a communist.

Edited June 25, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

That part about the two ways of entrance to the building was disputed by Gus Russo and PBS in their godawful 1993 Frontline special Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald.

They said the one entrance led to a restaurant.  

In my book I note that the problem with this is that both Garrison and Bill Turner said they were at the building and that both entrances led to an upstairs set of offices.  BTW, I also describe in Destiny Betrayed the rather odd circumstances  surrounding the demolition of 544 Camp Street, the building which had caused so many problems for the official story..

In 1965, Sam Newman, sold the building for 58,000 dollars. On that same day it was resold for a much lesser price of 34,800 dollars. (Hmm. Did someone want Sam out of there?)

Now get this, just eight years later, in 1973,--as the federal government local attorney's office is doing all it can to get rid of Garrison--Gerald Gallinghouse, the man who just happened to be running the prosecution against Garrison, filed a motion for Washington to buy the building!  It was an offer no one could refuse, over four times the last sales price: $141, 162.50.

Kind of fishy? More like an aquarium.  They did not want ANYTHING left in New Orleans.   Not the files, not the DA, not even the building. (DiEugenio, pp. 322-23)

If the DA didn't have anything, why were they so eager to completely erase any memory of his investigation from the face of the earth? 

Which, if not for Oliver Stone, they would have.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[Ron Bulman]

As alluded to I thought I'd read somewhere a Post Office/Federal Building was located somewhere near 544 Camp street.  One that housed FBI  and  INS (who documented Oswald, Thornley and others in the Newman building) and if I remember right where Oswald maintained a New Orleans PO Box.  Was this one, somewhere on Camp street it?  Was it demolished as well for the Hale Boggs Federal building?  Quite a nice structure to be destroyed if so.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=W1G6N5Qe&id=072228AD7282F6C232020E55933508482FA21903&thid=OIP.W1G6N5QeOZ_TxQ9USigVJwHaFq&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fupload.wikimedia.org%2fwikipedia%2fcommons%2f9%2f92%2fNew_Orleans_Post_Office_Camp_Street_circa_1917.jpg&exph=2096&expw=2743&q=new+orleans+post+office+1963&simid=608034959419377236&ck=22C976D786EA052EB9B98EB8B9F7F8E9&selectedIndex=5&qpvt=new+orleans+post+office+1963&ajaxhist=0

Camp street did face Lafayette square/park.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=W1G6N5Qe&id=072228AD7282F6C232020E55933508482FA21903&thid=OIP.W1G6N5QeOZ_TxQ9USigVJwHaFq&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fupload.wikimedia.org%2fwikipedia%2fcommons%2f9%2f92%2fNew_Orleans_Post_Office_Camp_Street_circa_1917.jpg&exph=2096&expw=2743&q=new+orleans+post+office+1963&simid=608034959419377236&ck=22C976D786EA052EB9B98EB8B9F7F8E9&selectedIndex=5&qpvt=new+orleans+post+office+1963&ajaxhist=0

[Matt Allison]

23 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

About LBJ and Hoover putting the skids to any counter against Cuba:  have never been able to figure out that one with precision.  Did LBJ really buy into that pile of baloney from the CIA, which Hoover himself questioned?  Was he just playing it safe?  Did he suspect what really happened?  Was he informed ?  If  the last was it before or after?  I mean Hoover was up to his eyeballs in the cover up.

Once the missiles were removed, I don't think LBJ had any interest in Cuba; as in, I think he thought it was a waste of time and more trouble than it was worth. And he certainly had no affection or bond with the CIA, with their old-boy, upper crust Eastern establishment vibe. I think LBJ thought the safest thing for him to do was to get cozy with the military brass, the JCS, and roll with their projects, and ignore the CIA whenever possible.

[James DiEugenio]

Distinct possibility Matt.

But later one, in 1967 after he saw the IG report Marvin Watson told the Church Committee that Johnson thought the CIA was mixed up in the JFK assassination.

[James DiEugenio]

Ron, on page 26, of Garrison's book, he describes that within one square block of Banister's office were Local HQ for SS, ONI, FBI and CIA.

And he says a large post office was across the park.

BTW, for me Garrison's book is such a pleasure to read.  First, I find all that New Orleans stuff so fascinating and forensically relevant.  I mean, just look what you can do with Kerry Thornley if you dig a little.  Second, Garrison is a  good writer.  In this field so many authors just are not gifted writers, like Livingstone for example.  But Garrison really was a good writer.

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[Ron Bulman]

7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Ron, on page 26, of Garrison's book, he describes that within one square block of Banister's office were Local HQ for SS, ONI, FBI and CIA.

And he says a large post office was across the park.

BTW, for me Garrison's book is such a pleasure to read.  First, I find all that New Orleans stuff so fascinating a forensically relevant.  I mean, just look what you can do with Kerry Thornley if you dig a little.  Second, Garrison is a  good writer.  In this field so many authors just are not gifted writers, like Livingstone for example.  But Garrison really was a good writer.

 

If you add the INS to this list considering their ID of Thornley, Ferrie and Oswald in Banisters office it's really incriminating.  Given the potential roles of the other organizations and the proximity of their offices what are the odds of no associations by any of the parties involved?

Until I looked at 544 Camp on google maps I didn't realize the building faced this 2 1/2 acre park, Lafayette Square.  A great place to walk and talk or sit on a park bench and talk privately or exchange say instructions or money clandestinely.  With the surrounding Federal offices, former FBI Chicago office director, and of others, Bannisters office on the square was quite convenient to all.  With Oswald's employer the Riley Coffee Company off to the side, as well as the garage the FBI used, and he supposedly hung out at.  Or, meet me in the café in the Newman building I'll have your trip money and instructions.  Buy you a coffee or a Falstaff.

A prequel to JFK by Oliver Stone, The Summer of 63: New Orleans.     

[Robert Montenegro]

11 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Ron, on page 26, of Garrison's book, he describes that within one square block of Banister's office were Local HQ for SS, ONI, FBI and CIA.

And he says a large post office was across the park.

That is what my friend Hank Albarelli told me in one our last conversations, that certain towns were groomed to be structured like Forward Operating Bases during the height of the cold war, getting ready for an invasion by communist forces.

Hank said, more of less, the following to me before he died:

"...Dallas, Miami, Washington, D.C., Chicago, Los Angeles, New York City, New Orleans, any town where there was a major convergence of valuable military resources, raw materials moving in a strategic manner, you will find, that at the height of the Cold War, that city was controlled by "Stay-behind" elements of the U.S. intelligence community and it's Eurasian allies. A military presence could be felt in every facet of the economic infrastructure and political arena..."

"...Dallas, Texas was such a town in 1963. The damned Central Intelligence Agency saw it as a 'Langley away from Langley'..."

"...Dallas, the entire infrastructure of the town, was a CIA front company, the police, civil-defense, local government, munitions factories, the mayor's office, raw materials industry, motels, bars, whore-houses, the whole damn show! That is why it was so easy to deconstruct Dealey Plaza shortly after the assassination, like it was a damn movie set. The CIA controlled everything in the town, Monty..." 

What John S. Tilton was doing in Vietnam is what I was supporting in Afghanistan: Provincial Reconstruction Teams.

The "Fair Play for Cuba Committee" penetration operation that Lambert Anderson, John S. Tilton, Lt. Col. James Walter McCord Jr. and David Atlee Phillips were running was a Provincial Reconstruction Team proof of concept that mirrored the future "Phoenix Program" and "OPLAN-34A" operations conducted by Maj. Gen. Edward Geary Lansdale and Maj. Gen. John Kirk Singlaub, both sheep-dipped CIA focal-point officers.

Only instead of hunter-killer teams operating in a jungle, you had entire towns in the continental United States, whose infrastructure was built like a Provincial Reconstruction Team.

Just examine how the police force in 1963 Dallas was augmented by a military intelligence team the "488th Military Intelligence Detachment", is structured like a CIA Special Activities Division Army Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha Team.

In a modern Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha team, the company commanders are colonels (think Col. John “Jack” Alston Crichton,  Col. Frank Maryan "Brandy" Brandstetter, Col. George Laster “Lonnie” Lumpkin and Lt. Col. George Luster Whitmeyer), the platoon leaders are Majors, squad leaders are Captains and the squad element is comprised of senior non-commissioned officers (Master Sergeant and above), warrant officers, political action officers and native cultural liaisons, and all combat operation orders given to that team usually come from a division level commander, Major General or above.

Purportedly, there was one Major General, in plain clothes, just walking around Dealey Plaza and said Major General just so happened to be Deputy Assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Special Operations. Another Major General was purportedly watching the motorcade from across Dealey Plaza and said Major General was the founder of the joint CIA-US Army Field Operations Intelligence (uhh...Edward Geary Lansdale and Charles Andrew Willoughby, anybody?)

I mean, Christ almighty, when I come to think about it, when I was in the Regular Army, Active Duty, a colonel typically has a regiment under his command. That's like three-thousand soldiers, not including sister support units and rear echelon "repple-depples".

Here we have four colonels in the same little detachment in Dallas.

That is an awesome display of power in a small command structure.

Like the modern-day CIA Provincial Reconstruction Teams in Afghanistan or Vietnam-era Phoenix Program hunter-killer teams.

New Orleans police forces were built the same way in 1963 with William Guy Banister's "Legión Anticomunista del Caribe" 544 Camp Street CIA/FBI front being augmented by everyone. Secret Service, Office of Naval Intelligence, CIA, FBI, ect.

Edited June 27, 2020 by Robert Montenegro

[James DiEugenio]

That whole thing about the Canal Street Customs House and the association of DeBrueys with it means something.  (Garrison, p. 182)

Mellen  comments on this phenomenon also.  There seems to be some kind of routine going on in bringing in Cuban illegals and putting them up with Orestes Pena.  The FBI is on on this and so is INS. Oswald is seen at these breakfasts. (pp 46-47)

Have to add one other thing from Mellen's book. Tom Bethell, one of the Benedict Arnold's in Garrisons camp, came on to the scene through Thornley's friend, probably Greg Hill. Bethell turned out to be  a rat.  And Garrison gave him a key job as the archivist.  I can just see him throwing briefcases of files down to Boxley late at night when everyone is gone, and Boxley sending them to CIA, care of the Garrison Group--for Rocca to examine-- which Boxley knew about at the time.

Bethell then kept a phony diary for publication.  On the eve of the Shaw trial he turned over the prosecution brief to the defense, and then lied about it in three ways.  First, he denied it was him, then he said it was not the whole brief, then he said he confessed.  According to my interviews with Ivon and the stuff Peter Vea dug out, these were all lies. Ivon conducted an inquiry and when he did the evidence pointed to Bethell. he started weeping since he realized he was guilty.. Something interesting happened after, when Garrison was thinking of indicting Bethell.  Tom  fled New Orleans and hid from JG at Mary Ferrell's house.  I found this out many years later through her estranged son.     

After things cooled down years later, he slowly emerged as a rightwing mainstay in the emerging Power GOP under Reagan and Bush.  He was a writer for many of their publications like National Review, American Spectator,  and The Standard. A dead giveaway is he was a fellow at the Hoover Institute.  Always caricaturing what he had done in New Orleans, and reducing Garrison's case to something like only the Z film.

And he came in through Thornley's buddy. Another coincidence with Kerry. God, they sure do pile up with this guy.

Edited June 28, 2020 by James DiEugenio