Question For the Forum

[W. Niederhut]

After studying the lengthy "Unacknowledged" thread on the forum this weekend, (and watching that Netflix documentary) I have a question for the forum.

What are the best books (articles, etc) about Roswell and the UFO data?

I realize that the topic is not about the JFK assassination, per se, (unless, of course, E. Howard Hunt was telling Mr. Caddy the truth about JFK and the "alien presence"!) but I'm asking because I had stumbled around in the dark for a few years reading the JFKA literature before I gradually learned to distinguish the good stuff from the ubiquitous disinformation.

As an example, when I retired two years ago, a former patient of mine gave me a copy of the 1997 book, The Day After Roswell, by Col. Phillip J. Corso.  I haven't read it yet, mainly because I wasn't interested in going down the UFO rabbit hole.  (Also, Corso was a military-industrial complex insider.)

But, after watching, Unacknowledged, I'm curious.

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by W. Niederhut

[Larry Hancock]

As far as Roswell goes,  Roswell in the 21st Century by Kevin Randle,  in regard to the scientific/physics aspect of UFO's I would suggest Unconventional Flying Objects by Paul Hill.  In regard to disinformation and counter intelligence activities related to UFOs I would suggest Project Beta by Greg Bishop and as for national security implications, Unidentified, The National Intelligence Problems of UFO's - by me.

For detailed scientific studies of more recent incidents I recommend the reports found at the SCU website:

https://www.explorescu.org/

A specific example would be the SCU study of the Nimitz incident:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WgURI1Fzrkij3utVvcPISGTyEUNX4Z0J/view

 

 

 

 

[Douglas Caddy]

Since you already possess a copy of Col. Philip Corso's book, The Day After Roswell, I would suggest you not delay too long in your research in reading it. One of the reasons JFK was assassinated was the fear on the part of the assassins at the top of the pyramid that he would give the materials that our government had acquired from crashed UFOs and directly from the Alien Presence to the Soviets. Col. Corso pursuant to orders from the Pentagon had distributed these materials from 1961-1963 during the Kennedy Administration to major U.S. corporations for back engineering. No one knows what was in JFK's mind when he sought to open up various avenues of joint endeavor to Premier Khrushchev and the Soviets. There was also fear that because he was under the occasional use of mind altering drugs, he might do something treasonous.

Here is what appears on the back cover of The Day After Roswell:

From the Back Cover

A landmark expos' firmly grounded in fact, "The Day After Roswell" ends the decades-old controversy surrounding the mysterious crash of an unidentified aircraft at Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. Backed by documents newly declassified through the Freedom of Information Act, Colonel Philip J. Corso (Ret.), a member of President Eisenhower's National Security Council and former head of the Foreign Technology Desk at the U.S. Army's Research & Development department, has come forward to reveal his personal stewardship of alien artifacts from the Roswell crash. He tells us how he spearheaded the Army's reverse-engineering project that led to today's:

Integrated circuit chips

Fiber optics

Lasers

Super-tenacity fibers

and "seeded" the Roswell alien technology to giants of American industry. Laying bare the U.S. government's shocking role in the Roswell incident -- what was found, the cover-up, and how theyused alien artifacts to change the course of twentieth-century history -- "The Day After Roswell" is an extraordinary memoir that not only forcesus to reconsider the past, but also our role in the universe. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Douglas Caddy

[Larry Hancock]

At the risk of disagreeing with Douglas, I would at least suggest that for balance you may want to check out some of the numerous critiques of Corso's claims.   This would be one place to start:  

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2014/01/philip-corso-and-day-after-roswell-again.html

On the other hand you will of course find that he has a number of fans and champions.....not too strange since the UFO community often seems to mirror  assassination research - agreement on sensational claims is about the last thing you will find in either.

 

[Ron Bulman]

W., you mentioned the rabbit hole aspect of all this.  I've not read in depth on the subject other than Jim Marrs Alien Agenda. I was still skeptical and did not pursue the subject.  I respect Jim Marrs tremendously for Crossfire, a turning point for me, Rule By Secrecy, Rise Of The Fourth Reich but I wonder why he went into outer space?

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=outer+limits+song+youtube&docid=608046319627797803&mid=4C4F48082215451010C74C4F48082215451010C7&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

I ask myself two questions, have I ever met anyone that claimed to be taken by aliens or have seen a space ship?  The answer is no. The second question if the first was yes, credibility, other witnesses,  pictures from you phone, photoshopped?  The rabbit hole may lead to the twilight zone.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=twilight+zone+song&view=detail&mid=48CCF25D405BE47C599748CCF25D405BE47C5997&FORM=VIRE0&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dtwilight%2bzone%2bsong%26form%3dPRUSEN%26mkt%3den-us%26httpsmsn%3d1%26msnews%3d1%26rec_search%3d1%26refig%3d1d4e5fdf98c843efab44be08f58dba8f%26sp%3d-1%26ghc%3d1%26pq%3dtwilight%2bzone%2bsong%26sc%3d9-18%26qs%3dn%26sk%3d%26cvid%3d1d4e5fdf98c843efab44be08f58dba8f

[W. Niederhut]

13 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

W., you mentioned the rabbit hole aspect of all this.  I've not read in depth on the subject other than Jim Marrs Alien Agenda. I was still skeptical and did not pursue the subject.  I respect Jim Marrs tremendously for Crossfire, a turning point for me, Rule By Secrecy, Rise Of The Fourth Reich but I wonder why he went into outer space?

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=outer+limits+song+youtube&docid=608046319627797803&mid=4C4F48082215451010C74C4F48082215451010C7&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

I ask myself two questions, have I ever met anyone that claimed to be taken by aliens or have seen a space ship?  The answer is no. The second question if the first was yes, credibility, other witnesses,  pictures from you phone, photoshopped?  The rabbit hole may lead to the twilight zone.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=twilight+zone+song&view=detail&mid=48CCF25D405BE47C599748CCF25D405BE47C5997&FORM=VIRE0&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dtwilight%2bzone%2bsong%26form%3dPRUSEN%26mkt%3den-us%26httpsmsn%3d1%26msnews%3d1%26rec_search%3d1%26refig%3d1d4e5fdf98c843efab44be08f58dba8f%26sp%3d-1%26ghc%3d1%26pq%3dtwilight%2bzone%2bsong%26sc%3d9-18%26qs%3dn%26sk%3d%26cvid%3d1d4e5fdf98c843efab44be08f58dba8f

Ron,

     I vaguely recall reading years ago about a psychiatrist from Cambridge Hospital, (affiliated with Harvard Medical School) named (?) John Mack, who had studied alien abductions, and believed they were real.  It surprised me, because one of my faculty advisors in med school worked at Cambridge Hospital, and it was a reputable, prestigious place.

    That said, I never went down the UFO/alien abduction  rabbit hole.

    Thanks to you, Larry Hancock and Douglas Caddy for the feedback.

[Joe Bauer]

Larry Hancock's list is a reasonably balanced one imo.

I've read Col. Corso's book. Got a sense that some of it was disinformation.

His delve into our super aggressive covert anti-communist activities in Italy right after WWII are interesting.

John Mack is very, very interesting.

His investigation into the Zimbabwe Arial school mass sighting convinced him the alien experience was reality.

And his integrity and credibility credentials were stellar.

Intriguingly and suspiciously, Mack was murdered.

Bud Hopkin's research is also worth reading.

Stanton Friedman as well.

I have studied the issue as much through internet information searches as reading books ( isn't this the same thing?) and feel there are enough highly credentialed testimonies and valid scientific findings to assume the alien presence is more reality than not.

I highly recommend accessing the internet site  "Sirius Disclosure Project."

On this you will view interview videos of some of the most interesting and highly credentialed persons who have information that bolsters the ET story and related subjects of the most secret program kind.

One interview in particular I recommend in the "Sirius Disclosure Project" files is of William Pawalec, now deceased.    See below. And click on the picture of Pawalec versus the site title to watch the very interesting intro by Dr. Steven Greer.

Sirius Project William Pawelec

1:00:15NOW PLAYING

 

 

William Pawelec Interview

 

Dr. Steven Greer

•

663K views4 years ago

 

Mr. William Pawelec was a U.S. Air Force computer operations and programming specialist with numerous credentials in security ...

 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[John Butler]

19 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:

A landmark expos' firmly grounded in fact, "The Day After Roswell" ends the decades-old controversy surrounding the mysterious crash of an unidentified aircraft at Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. Backed by documents newly declassified through the Freedom of Information Act, Colonel Philip J. Corso (Ret.), a member of President Eisenhower's National Security Council and former head of the Foreign Technology Desk at the U.S. Army's Research & Development department, has come forward to reveal his personal stewardship of alien artifacts from the Roswell crash. He tells us how he spearheaded the Army's reverse-engineering project that led to today's:

Integrated circuit chips

Fiber optics

Lasers

Super-tenacity fibers

and "seeded" the Roswell alien technology to giants of American industry. Laying bare the U.S. government's shocking role in the Roswell incident -- what was found, the cover-up, and how theyused alien artifacts to change the course of twentieth-century history -- "The Day After Roswell" is an extraordinary memoir that not only forcesus to reconsider the past, but also our role in the universe. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

 

This argument is the same kind of thing as aliens built the pyramids, moved unusually heavy stones, the Anti-Kythera device, the rustless iron stelae in India, Nazca lines, and on and on.

It basically says humans are not intelligent enough to invent things on their own.  There are no good books about aliens and ufos.  This includes Jim Marrs' book.

In order to believe in bigfoot, I need a fossil.  In order to believe in UFOs, I need part of the craft or the craft available so that it is in the public and there is no doubt.  I think I would believe the president if he made a national address and said "yes, there are aliens".

I am not a thoroughly skeptical person.  Some days I think Bob Lazar is ok.  Other days not.  Whether or not his story is believable, he tells a story in a believable manner.   

[Anthony Mugan]

On 7/12/2020 at 10:43 PM, W. Niederhut said:

After studying the lengthy "Unacknowledged" thread on the forum this weekend, (and watching that Netflix documentary) I have a question for the forum.

What are the best books (articles, etc) about Roswell and the UFO data?

I realize that the topic is not about the JFK assassination, per se, (unless, of course, E. Howard Hunt was telling Mr. Caddy the truth about JFK and the "alien presence"!) but I'm asking because I had stumbled around in the dark for a few years reading the JFKA literature before I gradually learned to distinguish the good stuff from the ubiquitous disinformation.

As an example, when I retired two years ago, a former patient of mine gave me a copy of the 1997 book, The Day After Roswell, by Col. Phillip J. Corso.  I haven't read it yet, mainly because I wasn't interested in going down the UFO rabbit hole.  (Also, Corso was a military-industrial complex insider.)

But, after watching, Unacknowledged, I'm curious.

 

Hi

I think Larry Hancock's suggested reading list is a very good start. I'll try to give a few recommendations for the different parts of the subject.

a) The Historical context

Larry Hancock's 'Unidentified' probably gives the best sense of how the problem was perceived by the military and intelligence community in the USA in the early period

'UFO's and Government' by Michael Swords, Robert Powell et. al. also gives a very good overview of the policy context although many of the case studies presented are really open to conventional explanations

In terms of recent developments, Keith Basterfield's blog gives quite a level headed overview of AATIP and all that stuff.

 

b) General Overview

I must recommend Ruppelt's 'Report on Unidentified Flying Objects' Although old (1st edition 1956 then a second edition with a fascinatingly different ending) and a bit 'happy' in style it really is essential reading. Ruppelt managed to slip quite a few little gems of information through behind that homespun style which have turned out to be correct such as the Twining memorandum, and a few interesting clues which tie in with later research around connections to the Research and Development Board etc.

Jacobs M (2000): 'UFOs and Abduction' gives a wide ranging and balanced series of essays by people from a whole range of perspectives, who were leading thinkers in that time period and gives a very good overview and introduction to different aspects of the problem.

Leslie Kean's 'UFO's' gives quite a good basic introduction from a post Blue Book perspective (the photo in there of the alleged Belgium Triangular UFO is now generally accepted to be a hoax, but other than that...). Chapter 27 has a short version of a very important paper by Wendt and Duvall 'Soverignty and the UFO', which is essential reading (the full versions is online if memory serves).

 

c) Technical and scientific aspects

 

Paul Hill's 1995 'Unconventional Flying Objects' is essential reading, although I worry he was largely inductive in his approach and many of the case studies used are less than secure

I would also recommend searching online some of the academic papers of Professor Michael Persinger and Dr John Derr on tectonic strain lights and UFOs...certainly not a panacea but part of the picture. There has also been some more recent work (I'd have to check the author) on the correlation between atmospheric plasma associated with the frequency of meteors and incidence of UFO reports. That correlation was first identified, as a purely statistical correlation, in the Condign Report which I would also recommend.

The Hessdalen project website is also good on what looks to be a natural atmospheric plasma phenomena that seems to be part of the solution, but not a full solution.

The Journal of Scientific Exploration has quite a number of good papers on this topic, although they tend to be less these days.

The NARCAP website is quite good if very focused on one angle on this.

I highly recommend Martin Shough's work. His RADCAT catalogue is a very impressive analysis of a group of radar visual cases, and his website has quite a few detailed studies and is very objective.

The 'UAP Reporting' website has some very good resources, including flow charts for identifying day time and night time misidentifications which I've found very useful in 'sanity checking' many claims. They are a little out of date now (drones etc) and don't cover radar cases, which get quite technical (see Martin Shough's work) nor help with photos and all the problems of CGI etc., but still very useful for older archive cases.

 

e) Official Studies

Blue Book Special Report 14 is well worth a read, if you check out the curious use of statistics...they actually more or less proved the opposite of what the wanted to claim.

You probably do need to read the Condon Committee Report

The Condign Report

The Cometa Report (short, but to the point)...there is also a follow up by SIGMA 3AF on that.

 

f) Roswell

I'd go with Larry's suggestion but a word of caution, Roswell is a complete dog's breakfast of fantasists, hoaxers, charlatans and bad analysis (including the various official explanations, which actually don't work), and some serious researchers. Bottom line is unidentified debris. It might be very significant or it might be just some random debris. The whole case needs stripping right back to basics and what can be documented, but I certainly don't have the patience for that morass...

g) A general word of caution

One thing I found over the years is that you can't rely on any claim or alleged fact in Ufology without checking it out for yourself. It is amazing how many famous authors just repeat stories from someone else's book and when you dig back into the primary documents it all falls apart. There is in the end a residue of cases that do represent a real challenge to the analyst and appear to represent a set of observations that appear to represent technological devices of a broadly consistent set of characteristics and patterns of behaviour, but they are actually quite few and far between. The other issue is that in reality not much changes quickly in this subject, which creates a problem for people who write, speak or blog about it. Over the decades there has been a trend towards more sensational claims and much of that is just nonsense put out in order to attract attention. It is a fascinating but also infuriating subject and the watch word is caveat emptor. That trend towards more sensational claims can also be seen on individual cases and as a general rule of thumb the later more sensational claims tend to be either demonstrably false or at best extremely dubious. I will mention one specific case, Rendlesham, which you might find interesting to follow through the timeline on. David Clark's analysis on his website seems to me to provide a full and coherent solution to what must have been a genuinely puzzling sequence of misidentifications at the time...but I'll leave you to consider that case in it's totality and how it get presented, along with the rest of it!.

Good luck!

 

 

 

[Anthony Mugan]

ps. 

I read Corso's book years ago. After checking it out I threw it away.

 

[W. Niederhut]

5 hours ago, Anthony Mugan said:

ps. 

I read Corso's book years ago. After checking it out I threw it away.

 

Thanks for the references.

Any thoughts about why Corso wrote the book, in the first place?  (I still haven't read my copy of that book.)

For example, was it part of a broader MIC psy op regarding claims about "UFO" technology?

[Douglas Caddy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J._Corso

[Joe Bauer]

A basic question for everyone here:

Do you believe our government and our military has had and still has "any" secret technology programs that they have successfully kept from public knowledge and disclosure?

Going back to the end of WW II?

Of course, we all know the answer to this question.

Have any of these programs involved more than strictly human discovered technology?

The argument that one cannot accept the ET story until they can personally see an actual part of an alien space craft is ridiculous.

If someone had such a material and were sharing it publicly, once the government got wind of this, it would certainly result in it's theft.

Physical proof is a line of public disclosure they won't tolerate I would think.

Let people write books and articles all they want. The government knows this truth proclaiming venue will never take hold because it's all non-physical proof speculation. And you can always debunk it with counter writings and opinions.

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Anthony Mugan]

15 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Thanks for the references.

Any thoughts about why Corso wrote the book, in the first place?  (I still haven't read my copy of that book.)

For example, was it part of a broader MIC psy op regarding claims about "UFO" technology?

Hi

I would argue that it's extremely unlikely that Corso's book was part of any disinformation operation.

My reasons for suggesting that are that when you look back at the history of all this, pretty much all the 'perception management' efforts by the US government and its close allies have been in the opposite direction, towards downplaying the issue and reducing attention on it. Some examples of that include the policies that evolved around press releases in the early period (with much trial and error) but settling by the mid 50's on an approach of only putting out any detail on cases with a reasonable solution. By the second half of the 1950's NICAP was pushing hard for Congressional investigations, and there was a lot of effort put into managing perceptions of important Congressional figures to again downplay the issue and so on.

The reasons for that are fairly clear.

a) No politician wants to ever admit they don't know everything about everything. Admitting something is going on that we don't really understand is not good optics.

b) No official ever wants to tell a politician there is something going on they can't explain in their area of responsibility. It's distinctly career limiting.

c) Once the initial worries that this could be something Soviet faded, there remained a real concern that the phenomena could be used to create panic or to swamp 1950's era air defence systems with false targets. That theme runs through the Robertson Panel recommendations and the prior discussions within the CIA. Encouraging a degree of ridicule and making people look a bit stupid for misidentifications, and so discouraging reports, made a lot of sense in reducing 'noise' in the air defense system

I could go on... there are some interesting differences in approach once you move away from the English speaking world, but...

In that context putting out a sensationalist set of claims by someone like Corso (former Military Secretary to the 5412 Committee, if memory serves) was the exact opposite of downplaying the issue, so it just doesn't fit. I really don't want to speculate as to his true motives, but as the content of the book is largely garbage and he must have known that it doesn't leave too many options.

To be honest the intelligence community don't really need to do much to manage the situation....there are enough nutcases and charlatans out there to create quite enough confusion all by themselves.

[W. Niederhut]

So, it sounds like possible explanations for Col. Corso's book boil down to;

1)  He was telling the truth-- i.e., recovered UFO technology was actually shared with U.S. corporations.

2)  He was falsely claiming that some sort of Nazi technology came from UFOs-- i.e., covering up Operation Paper Clip.

3)  He was a huckster trying to sell books.

4)  He was nuts.

Edited July 15, 2020 by W. Niederhut