Identity of "Leopoldo" (Silvia Odio visit)

[Matt Allison]

12 minutes ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

Would anybody be able to enlighten me on some timing:

1. When was Silvia Odio's story first known? 

2. When was Oswald first 'revealed' to have visited MC? 

Odio wrote her father about the visit from the 3 men before the assassination occurred. 

James Hosty said he asked LHO about the MC trip on 11/22/63 when Oswald was being questioned after his arrest.

[Matt Allison]

16 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

I don't know if it has been posted elsewhere, but after the death of Bernardo De Torres, Jeff Morley filed a FOIA to the CIA about DeTorres. Below is a link to the useless, incomplete garbage the CIA gave him in response. 

https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/bernardo-de-torres-central-intelligence-agency-74311/#file-879038

Page 3 of this release would seem to be completely irrelevant- unless the redacted source was the subject of the FOIA, Bernardo De Torres. In which case, page 5 of the release, a 1978 memorandum stating CIA had no operational interest in De Torres after 1962, would turn out to be not truthful.

[Joe Bauer]

Reliability as a witness[edit]

Author Gerald Posner profiled Odio as an unreliable witness and one who has a histrionic personality disorder. Posner, a defender of the Warren Report, discredited Odio's character by revealing portions of her psychiatric history and accounts of what her friends told him. Specifically, Posner mentioned Odio's hysterical fainting spells and that she is a divorcee who left a fractious marriage.^[18] Odio's psychiatrist, Dr. Burton Einspruch, told the House Select Committee "Let me say, consciously, I don’t think she would want to lie, but to me, it’s very conceivable that in the histrionic personality, the kind of personality that she had that where she would not lie, she could be — has a degree of suggestibility that she could believe something that did not really transpire."^[19]

Notes[edit]

The Warren Commission's report also said that Odio's sister briefly saw the three men when answering the door and thought that the American was Lee Harvey Oswald.^[6]

[Matt Allison]

Gerald Posner is also notorious for his intellectual dishonesty, blatant agenda, and lying by omission.

So I don't really take his opinion on the subject very seriously

[Eddy Bainbridge]

On 4/5/2021 at 9:36 PM, Matt Allison said:

Odio wrote her father about the visit from the 3 men before the assassination occurred. 

James Hosty said he asked LHO about the MC trip on 11/22/63 when Oswald was being questioned after his arrest.

Many thanks Matt. I suppose my suggestion that the bus trip was created to cover/obfuscate the Odio story is unlikely. If the narrative is that Oswald got to Mexico by faster means then there should be perhaps either co-conspirators or sightings. 

[Joe Bauer]

Like the just passed on Sprague, I also believe the Sylvia Odio story was incredibly important and true. 

If Sylvia Odio made up or exaggerated her Leopoldo/Angelo/Leon Oswald visit story due to her histrionic pathology as Posner claims, then Sylvia's sister Annie must have also had a similar histrionic episode at the exact same time.

Annie was right there feet behind Sylvia during the men's presence. Annie was the first to open the door when they knocked and she saw these same men up close herself. Sister Annie has never contradicted Sylvia's story, she's even backed it up...the rest of her life. Annie has never stated that her sister made up or exaggerated the visit story for any reason, especially a mental illness one.

Did the WC call Annie Odio to testify under oath so they could hear from an arms length away eye-witness to this incredibly important conspiracy indicating tale of her sister Sylvia Odio? Sylvia's story was potentially that important that they should have.

And like I mentioned, even if the "Leon Oswald" Sylvia was introduced to by Leopoldo was an imposter, the fact that Leopoldo made it a point to state his name "twice" to Ms. Odio that evening and did so again the next day over the telephone is truly a huge caliber Oswald setting up conspiracy smoking gun. One that was fired that night right outside Sylvia Odio's apartment door.

The Warren Commission also chose not to believe Seth Kantor's Jack Ruby meeting and conversation Parkland hospital story.

You did not see Jack Ruby at Parkland hospital soon after JFK died there.  We believe tacky strip club owner, mob connected, nut case murderer Jack Ruby over you Mr. stable, educated and established newspaper writer and former Marine Seth Kantor.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Joe Bauer

[Paul Trejo]

The claim that Bernardo de Torres was one of the three strangers at the door of Silvia Odio during the final week of September 1963, is belied by the report that Silvia knew Bernardo de Torres in Cuba before the Fidel Castro revolution.

She knew Bernardo -- so she would not use the word "stranger" to describe him.  I believe that Silvia Odio gave us -- to the very best of her ability -- what she remembered.  These were strangers, she reported.  

For example, Silvia insisted -- multiple times -- that she could not remember the date of the visit.  She was instructed to "guess" and then her incorrect "guess" was twisted in order to call her a L-I-A-R. 

Silvia Odio's report had to be quashed for the same reason that Earlene Roberts' report (of a cop car outside her house when LHO was in there) had to be quashed. 

Their claims could never be accepted by Hoover or Warren because their claims would become hard evidence that LHO had accomplices.  That was precisely what Hoover would never accept.  (And LBJ strong-armed Earl Warren to agree with Hoover).  No accomplices!  Ever!

Under no circumstances could the Radical Right in Dallas become suspects of fooling LHO.  No accomplices!  For National Security!

(That's also why the WC upheld the neurotic testimony of Mary Bledsoe [Dallas bus passenger] and William Whaley [Dallas taxi driver] who insisted that LHO was alone on their bus and taxi rushing to Oak Cliff.  They affirmed Hoover's Lone Nut theory, so their nonsense testimony was accepted -- actually treasured.)

Silvia Odio's testimony clearly implies that LHO had two accomplices at a minimum.

These visiting strangers were not Bernardo de Torres or Angelo Murgado.  Silvia knew both of them.  Angelo, when interviewed, claimed that he saw LHO sitting inside Silvia's house.  Silvia said she made it clear that these strangers were never welcome to cross her threshhold.  At best, Angelo suffered from a "mistaken identity".

Besides, if anybody was using a "war name" alias as the strangers claimed, claimed, then Angelo would never use his actual name as his "war name!"

A far better theory is proposed by Harry Dean (since 1965), i.e., "Leopoldo" was really Loran Hall (a Cuban-American with the actual war name, Lorenzo) and "Angelo" was really Larry Howard (a Mexican-American with the war name, Alonzo).  Harry Dean knew Loran Hall and Larry Howard very well, and regularly helped load paramilitary supplies into their trailer so that they could haul them to New Orleans and Miami.

Loran and Larry, claims Harry Dean, actually drove LHO from New Orleans to Mexico -- briefly stopping in Dallas and Silvia Odio's apartment on their way.

By the way -- in the Spanish language, there is no first name of "Lee".  In Spanish it's unknown (except as a Chinese surname).  The closest we get in Spanish is "Leon".  Not an alias -- it's simply the Spanish version of "Lee". 

Silvia's memory (she admitted) was imperfect.  She couldn't remember the exact day, and she couldn't remember the Mexican's name -- only that it started with an "A".  Still, she always stood by her testimony that these three were strangers to her, and the English speaking American was  LHO -- "Leon Oswald."

Also, the nonsense that the "Lone Nut" traveled alone to Mexico City by bus, was affirmed by the wacky testimony of Pamela Mumford and John McFarland.  (Their testimony crumbles like crumb cake). 

John Bowen, another passenger on that same bus, denied that LHO was on that bus.  So, he was quickly slammed as a "Soviet spy."  Why so quick?  Because he rejected this "Lone Nut" testimony, that's why.

Loran Hall was a scary guy -- quite violent.  Very likely Silvia would have been afraid of him.  Larry Howard followed Loran Hall almost everywhere, says Harry Dean (even today).

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited October 27, 2021 by Paul Trejo
typos

[Matt Allison]

I know of no evidence that Silvia Odio knew De Torres in Cuba. De Torres emigrated to the US in 1955, so your claim is rather unlikely, to say the least...

[Pete Mellor]

12 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Also, the nonsense that the "Lone Nut" traveled alone to Mexico City by bus, was affirmed by the wacky testimony of Pamela Mumford and John McFarland.  (Their testimony crumbles like crumb cake). 

John Bowen, another passenger on that same bus, denied that LHO was on that bus.  So, he was quickly slammed as a "Soviet spy."  Why so quick?  Because he rejected this "Lone Nut" testimony, that's why.

Paul, I believe John Howard Bowen was involved in a car accident and died from his injuries in January 1962.  The passenger on the Flecha Roja bus, using the alias of John Bowen, was in fact Albert Osborne, a British national.

Osborne was using the Bowen alias (not for the first time) perhaps because Osborne had been ordered to leave Mexico as an undesirable alien back in 1958.

The two men had known each other as far back as the 1920's in N. Carolina.  Osborne was portraying himself as a missionary or itinerant preacher and met Bowen when he was involved in the Methodist church and YMCA in Hamlet, N.Carolina.  Osborne's sister Ada, who lived in Gary, Indiana told the FBI that she had sent her brother money back in the 1920's under the name of John Howard Bowen.

I would be interested to know just when the 'Soviet spy' tag was attached to Osborne. That tag is still used in British newspapers.  He travelled around U.S. & Mexico for decades without known means of finance, adding various epithets and titles to his name.  Osborne's name is linked in many books.  Some state as part of a 'hit team' in Dallas as per Torbitt's 'Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal.'  Or McDonald/Moore's 'Appointment in Dallas' which purports a Soviet assassination plot involving LBJ and Osborne.  Then there is 'Oswald & the Doppelgangers' by Dov Ivry that states that "Albert Osborne was an ersatz clergyman, domiciled in Mexico, whom the FBI knew when he lived in the U.S. during WWII as a poopoo collaborator."

[Paul Trejo]

On 10/27/2021 at 10:35 AM, Pete Mellor said:

Paul, I believe John Howard Bowen was involved in a car accident and died from his injuries in January 1962.  The passenger on the Flecha Roja bus, using the alias of John Bowen, was in fact Albert Osborne, a British national.

Osborne was using the Bowen alias (not for the first time) perhaps because Osborne had been ordered to leave Mexico as an undesirable alien back in 1958.

The two men had known each other as far back as the 1920's in N. Carolina.  Osborne was portraying himself as a missionary or itinerant preacher and met Bowen when he was involved in the Methodist church and YMCA in Hamlet, N.Carolina.  Osborne's sister Ada, who lived in Gary, Indiana told the FBI that she had sent her brother money back in the 1920's under the name of John Howard Bowen.

I would be interested to know just when the 'Soviet spy' tag was attached to Osborne. That tag is still used in British newspapers.  He travelled around U.S. & Mexico for decades without known means of finance, adding various epithets and titles to his name.  Osborne's name is linked in many books.  Some state as part of a 'hit team' in Dallas as per Torbitt's 'Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal.'  Or McDonald/Moore's 'Appointment in Dallas' which purports a Soviet assassination plot involving LBJ and Osborne.  Then there is 'Oswald & the Doppelgangers' by Dov Ivry that states that "Albert Osborne was an ersatz clergyman, domiciled in Mexico, whom the FBI knew when he lived in the U.S. during WWII as a poopoo collaborator."

Pete, we've read many of the same reports about John Bowen and Albert Osborne.  There are so many variations and conflicting accounts about these two names, however, that I've formed an alternate opinion.  

I suspect that a smear campaign began in 1964, in Washington DC, simply because Bowen/Osborne refused to confirm the WC dogma of a "Lone Shooter."  The FBI called on the CIA, which called on England's MI6, and the smear campaign was complete -- based entirely on innuendo.   

IMO, John Bowen and Albert Oswborne were the same man, an itinerant Baptist preacher -- a Bible minister with no home Church.  That's rare, but it happens.  Often it's because the preacher has something personal to hide.

Was he an opioid addict?  Then Mexico would be inconvenient because the opioid abuse laws in Mexico applied very long prison sentences. 

Was he gay?  Then Mexico would be convenient because it's right next door to the US, it has a cheaper cost of living, and anonymity would be easier.  It's more likely that Bowen/Osborne used Mexico to "cruise" quite often -- though he lived in the US.

Since he had no Church he could set up an informal circuit among small Baptist Churches which would accept him a couple weeks a  year, perhaps. 

In any case, anybody who regularly used an alias to travel in Mexico was probably living a double life.  He could switch ID's quickly in case of any scandal.  

If authorities in the US or in Mexico had any firm charges on which to hold him, he would have likely been long in prison.  To me, the fact that Brown/Osborne was traveling freely suggests a secret life -- but not necessarily a criminal life. 

Nor does it suggest a life of politics.  

'Gays in the closet' seems to be a recurring theme in the Warren Commission Hearings.  Ex-General Walker; Warren Reynolds; J. Edgar Hoover; Dean Andrews; Wesley Buell Frazier; all these reveal  unintentional snippets.  Bowen/Osborne, IMO, is just one more.  There are others.

So, why would the WC smear him?  Because he refused to confirm Hoover's Lone Shooter theory.  Bowen/Osborne had to be silenced.  There's my view,

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Pete Mellor]

Paul, Many points that I beg to differ.  However, Greg's thread here refers to the Odio visit & we are 

Another time maybe.

[Paul Trejo]

On 10/26/2021 at 10:31 PM, Matt Allison said:

I know of no evidence that Silvia Odio knew De Torres in Cuba. De Torres emigrated to the US in 1955, so your claim is rather unlikely, to say the least...

Just because a Cuban guy migrated to the US in 1955, is no reason to conclude that he never went back to Cuba to visit family, or girlfriends.

The well-to-do classes in Cuba regularly traveled to the US, as well as to Bermuda, the Bahamas, the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Panama, and so on.

Silvia Odio had extended family throughout the Caribbean, and she traveled regularly throughout the region.  She went to college in the US.

The evidence exists.  

Edited December 4, 2021 by Paul Trejo
typo

[Matt Allison]

3 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Just because a Cuban guy migrated to the US in 1955, is no reason to conclude that he never went back to Cuba to visit family, or girlfriends.

The well-to-do classes in Cuba regularly traveled to the US, as well as to Bermuda, the Bahamas, the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Panama, and so on.

Silvia Odio had extended family throughout the Caribbean, and she traveled regularly throughout the region.  She went to college in the US.

The evidence exists.  

Then post it, because the above screed is not convincing.

[David Boylan]

On 8/1/2020 at 1:53 PM, Matt Allison said:

It seems there's a pretty good physical match. Tony Cuesta was a rather tall guy, definitely above 6 feet, so the Commandos L photo with Cuesta, Font, Romero and Diaz-Garcia might be making the others look short. But that photo is also from 1963, which helps, as Diaz-Garcia's face looks the pudgiest of all his photos.

Here's a physical description of Diaz-Garcia. 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=74101#relPageId=13

Odio could not remember the shorter guy's name. She believed it was something like "Angel" or "Angelo."  JFK lore later has it firmly established as Angel or Angelo. It could have been Sandalio. The only issue is that Diaz-Garcia was associated with 30th of November Movement although when he first arrived in July 1963, he thought that Artime and Eloy Gutierrez-Menoyo had the best chances of getting "results." Menoyo was the head of the military section of the SNFE/A-66 group. Veciana was the fundraiser.

Odio stated they were looking for her sister Sarita but said that Sylvia was the one they really wanted. Leopoldo said they were from JURE so we are looking for someone that knew of Sarita (DRE) and Sylvia (JURE). 

[Joe Bauer]

If Sylvia Odio's "Leopoldo/Angelo/Leon Oswald visit " story is true and not exaggerated...then what?