Did EVEN the Warren Commission Believe Howard Brennan?

[David Josephs]

16 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Is there "any" corroborative testimony or evidence that Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford was on the roof on the the records building while JFK was passing underneath?

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/T Disk/T Letter/Tartro Edgar F 06B.pdf

 

[Paul Jolliffe]

Gentlemen,

 

I agree that a shot was fired at the limo shortly after the turn onto Elm Street. However, I don't believe it hit anyone in the car. Others, years ago, pointed out the obvious splice and damage to the Tina Towner film which contains evidence that such a shot occurred.

Tina Towner was standing and filming the motorcade from the sidewalk at the southwest corner of Elm and Houston. She was in front and slightly to the left of Howard Brennan. 

Her film shows (here at the 15 second mark) an obvious splice of several frames, and big black blotches for a frame or two just after the limo completed its turn. Immediately after the splice, we can see the president sit back up to his right, as if he just ducked to his left in reaction to something. We can also see that he pulled his right hand back quickly in mid-wave. 

This would seem to be evidence of a missed shot that traveled over JFK's right shoulder and struck the pavement just as the limo was completing its wide turn. Such a location coincides with the numerous witnesses who believed that something was thrown or fired at the motorcade at that point. 

Her film was damaged and spliced at the 15 second mark while in the custody of the FBI, allegedly.

 

Remarkably, the Robert Hughes film also was damaged just as the limo made its turn. Several frames were blobbed, so any close look at the president's reaction at that moment is now impossible. Again, the damage occurred (allegedly) while the film was in the hands of the FBI. See the 23 second mark. 

If you ignore the commentary of the two image analysts who claim that "Oswald" was in the window, there is something else much more interesting: the positions of Harold Norman, James Jarman and Bonnie Ray Williams. This clip shows the re-enactment photos taken from within the fifth floor of the TSBD, and the three men are positioned kneeling and looking out the windows.

The official Warren Commission Exhibit 481, allegedly a photo taken within 15-30 seconds of the shots by Thomas Dillard of the Dallas Morning News, shows the three men looking out the windows of the TSBD.

However, it has long been argued that Exhibit 481 above is NOT the actual Dillard photo. Instead, goes the argument, Exhibit 481 is a photo taken from the street months later at the same time the men "re-enacted" their locations inside the TSBD so the authorities could take their picture.

This photo, taken surreptitiously, would then replace the original Dillard photo.

Why would anyone do that?

To hide whatever information was actually in the original Dillard photo . . . (Evidence of two men? Someone not named "Oswald"? Norman, Williams and Jarman were not where they claimed to be when they claimed to be there? etc.)

The evidence for this claim is provocative: the poses of the men seem to be exactly identical in both Exhibit 481 and in these reenactment photos, Exhibits 485 and 486. The men appear to be wearing the same clothing, yet Exhibit 481 and (Exhibits 485 and 486) were taken months apart.

Exhibits 485 and 486 below, to be compared with Exhibit 481 above - allegedly the original Dillard photo from 12:31 pm on 11/22/63:

 

So to sum up:

In the Zapruder film, the Towner film and the Hughes film, there is a splice and or damage to these films at the same point in the motorcade - just as the limo completed its turn onto Elm. 

Such damage and/or a splice would hide evidence of a shot, albeit a missed shot. JFK's reaction to this missed shot was entirely inconsistent with a shot from the "sniper's nest" window of the TSBD, yet entirely in line with a missed shot from an eastern location, including the south windows of the Dal-Tex building, as Richard Price (and I) have pointed out for some days.

Howard Brennan's first day affidavit to the Dallas Sheriff's office seems to be strong evidence that, in addition to whatever other activity he may have seen in the TSBD,  Brennan saw a shooter in the Dal-Tex building. 

 

[John Butler]

This is a tad off topic:

From Penn Jone’s Continuing Inquiry pdf

 

“5) Craig and C.L. Lewis were looking for a possible bullet

scar on the south curb of. Elm Street based upon information

from Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers. Various photos have

been Published of Walthers and Officer J.W. Foster who allowed

an unidentified man, cited as an "F.B.I. agent" in Chief Jesse

Curry's book, J.F.K. Assassination File, to pick up something

and deposit the object into his pocket. Craig claims that

Walthers told him that evening that the object in question

was a 45 caliber slug imbedded in brain debris, but later

Walthers recanted the story.”

Ron Bulman mentioned sometime back the De Lisle carbine as a possible Kennedy assassination weapon.  This was a weapon that shot a .45 caliber round and was sound suppressed.  That and similar British assassination weapons were said to be so quiet that you would only hear a sound similar to snapping a zippo lighter.

A weapon such as this may have accounted for one of Kennedy's head wounds.  The one in the frontal-temporal region near his forehead's hair line.

I've often speculated that Kennedy was shot in the head with a .45 from such a weapon with a reduced powered round.  The round penetrated Kennedy's head and addled his brain and mind.  All he could think of was to do his duty and smile and wave at the crowd.

This is why I say the assassination was botched.  They thought they had missed with this head shot and with other shots like the back shot due to his back brace.  The order went out for a fusillade as mentioned by Roy Kellerman, I believe. 

There is no way to prove such a speculation.  The .45 slug with brain matter suggests there may be some validity.

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by John Butler

[John Butler]

20 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

In the Zapruder film, the Towner film and the Hughes film, there is a splice and or damage to these films at the same point in the motorcade - just as the limo completed its turn onto Elm. 

Actually, there are about 8 films that are damaged as the p. limo passes the Court Records Building and begins to make the turn onto Elm Street.  There are 71 witnesses that say shooting occurred in front of the TSBD. 

Tina Towner has been remade.  For background material showing the TSBD doorway where we should see the Altgens 6 crowd we have this:

 

Those white splotches in the doorway are Dallas police white hats.  They used film taken after the motorcade left the area to construct the Towner film.  And, probably from the Towner film the details of the p. limo.  Can you see the X on Jackie?  Can you see black paint on JFK disguising the orientation of his head.  This frame is very similar to the frame showing where Kennedy was shot for the second time.  It has a large "hit X" painted on it.  Was Toni Glover right and JFK was wearing his black patch in the Towner film?  Examine the film frame by frame and see.   

Edited August 7, 2020 by John Butler

[Paul Jolliffe]

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/T Disk/T Letter/Tartro Edgar F 06B.pdf

 

If Weatherford was on top of the Dallas County Records Building, he (presumably) would never have admitted it if he was, in fact, a sniper. 

However, if  Weatherford was up there for security purposes, then he would have faced the motorcade from the northwest corner of the rooftop. Such a location meant that the eastern windows of the sixth floor of the Dal-Tex building was behind and to his right. 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dealey+Plaza/@32.779896,-96.8073803,44a,35y,220.59h,60.09t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xcfa47bf25b709fe0!8m2!3d32.7788184!4d-96.8082993

[Paul Jolliffe]

37 minutes ago, John Butler said:

Actually, there are about 8 films that are damaged as the p. limo passes the Court Records Building and begins to make the turn onto Elm Street.  There are 71 witnesses that say shooting occurred in front of the TSBD. 

Tina Towner has been remade.  For background material showing the TSBD doorway where we should see the Altgens 6 crowd we have this:

 

Those white splotches in the doorway are Dallas police white hats.  They used film taken after the motorcade left the area to construct the Towner film.  And, probably from the Towner film the details of the p. limo.  Can you see the X on Jackie?  Can you see black paint on JFK.  This frame is very similar to the frame showing where Kennedy was shot for the second time.  It has a large "hit X" painted on it.  Was Toni Glover right and JFK was wearing his black patch in the Towner film?  Examine the film frame by frame and see.   

John,

We agree that at least one (early) shot was fired at the motorcade around this point, and we agree that films were damaged or spliced to hide this fact. (I am not sold that JFK was hit at this moment. I don't believe he was.)

Still, the reason for the film alteration/damage was simple: any shot at this point in the motorcade was far more consistent with a shot from the east, not from the "sniper's window", which was almost directly overhead at that moment! 

 

[Paul Jolliffe]

16 hours ago, Richard Price said:

Ron, I think this exposing of what Brennan actually said starts laying a foundation for many of the people who have been studying this case.

1.  Brennan was telling the truth, but was immediately pressured to "follow the CORRECT official evidence".  This happened so fast that more than one local "official" had to know the story to be told BEFORE THE FACT.

2.  The shooter in the position he was, had to mean it was professionally planned.  That position, as I have pointed out, is VIRTUALLY INVISIBLE to everyone.

3.  If it can be determined who got onto Brennan's story and QUASHED IT, instead of investigating it much might be learned.  Was it local police, was it SS agent Sorrels (to whom Brennan says he talked) or a combination of these groups.

4. In some of his statements (even some where he is being led/directed) he mentions getting the attention of a Dallas policeman, being taken to someone higher up and then having to wait for a few minutes while the higher up person and others conferred before coming back to him.

I am awaiting the book he wrote about his experience that day.  I am also going to try to timeline his statements and decipher where he is managing to get statements of truth into the record.  He was so scared and so wanting to NOT be a part of this story, it is going to be difficult to parse with any degree of accuracy.  He readily went along with anything he was prompted to say IF it would remove further pressure on him and his family.  Once again I refer to the YouTube video where he is explaining what he saw.  As he starts to say where he say the gunman, his eyes divert upward and to the right.  This is a subconscious reaction to the words he is saying.  That direction is towards the east end of the Dal-Tex (Elm St. side) and upward (6th floor).

Richard,

While I have not read ALL of Howard Brennan's book "Eyewitness to History" published posthumously in 1987, I did read the lengthy excerpt posted by William Kelly in 2010. 

I am certain Brennan's book was ghost-written. The writing style is entirely inconsistent with Brennan's speaking style, so I wouldn't place too much emphasis on anything in it. The book has been relatively "sanitized."

Brennan did place emphasis on a suspicious car, a 1955-57 Oldsmobile, parked facing south on Houston, adjacent to the TSBD with its wheels turned sharply away from the curb. The driver was apparently friendly with the nearby DPD officers. However, I suspect this vehicle was an unmarked DPD car, driven by one of the plain-clothed DPD officers. 

Brennan did write that the first shot occurred "when the presidential car moved just a few feet past where I was sitting. . . ", which is consistent with my posts above, but inconsistent with a shot from almost directly overhead. 

The hyperbole in the writing though makes it hard to sort out the wheat from the chaff. 

Consider this doozy:

"All of this took only a few seconds. I didn't realize at that moment that I was the only person who was actually watching the man firing the rifle. Simultaneous with the third shot, I swung my eyes back to the Presidential car which had moved on down to my left on Elm, and I saw a sight that made my whole being sink in despair. A spray of red came from around the President's head. I knew the bullet had struck its intended target. Later, I would learn that the whole scene had taken less than ten seconds. In retrospect, it seemed like several minutes."

 

So, according to Brennan (or his ghost), Brennan not only saw the assassin fire the third shot, but then, swung his eyes (and his head, from where he was sitting) literally faster than a speeding bullet, and witnessed "a spray of red came from around the President's head". 

Brennan claimed to have seen both the firing of the rifle and the impact of the bullet!

No way. 

Further on, Brennan claimed to have given his description of the suspect to a plain clothes policeman, and that this description became the basis for the first broadcast at 12:45. Yet, Brennan never made any such claim in either his 1963 affidavit nor his 1964 testimony! He instead stated that he demanded to be taken to a Secret Service agent, and that he spoke with Forrest Sorrels!

By the 1980's, the "Sorrels" timing problem was well-known. But back on 11/22/63 or even by the spring of 1964, that problem was not yet so obvious. So again, Brennan's 1987 "solution" was to remove Sorrels from the immediate equation and replace him with an unnamed DPD officer.  Again, this is completely contradicted by his first day affidavit.

 

Finally, in a total revision of his 1964 Warren Commission testimony, Brennan's 1987 book claims that it was he, Howard Brennan, who asked the FBI to cut the news films footage of himself talking with various officials on Houston Street, north of Elm after the shooting!

Anyone who has read Brennan's 1964 testimony knows that he was mystified about why the WC did not have his precise location when he was talking with various authorities after the assassination. He pointed out to them that he'd been filmed by news crews, and this footage had then been cut at the request of "Mr. Lish of the FBI."  This belated 1987 explanation is nonsense. It serves no purpose but to cover up the suspicious actions of the FBI.

In sum Richard, I wouldn't trust much of anything in Howard Brennan's 1987 posthumous book. Stick with the first day affidavit!

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/16277-howard-brennan-re-evaluated/

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Paul Jolliffe

[Richard Price]

Thanks, Paul.  I too have read the parts available as excerpts and noticed the same things you noted.  I just wanted it so I could read everything he "supposedly" said.  I had already noted that it was ghost written by J. Edward Cherryholmes (a pastor).  With it being published after his death, I wanted to see what kind of information seems to have suffered the same loss/addition which is prevalent in his various statements to officials of the government (SS/FBI/WC).  Because of his personal fear for his family (probably himself also) and make-up/mentality he made himself scarce and tried his best not to "rock the boat".  I was also interested in the author/pastor and his connection to Brennan.  I know Mr. Cherryholmes is also deceased, but that is about all.  As you say, I'm not expecting to find much, if anything.  The book was cheap ($10 including shipping), so I thought I'd read it at least.

[David Josephs]

On 8/6/2020 at 1:56 PM, Paul Jolliffe said:

I agree that a shot was fired at the limo shortly after the turn onto Elm Street. However, I don't believe it hit anyone in the car. Others, years ago, pointed out the obvious splice and damage to the Tina Towner film which contains evidence that such a shot occurred.

Hey there Paul...

I have this as further support for that early shot... I agree with you that a shot at z157/158 happened and was noticed by Rosemary, Hickey and JFK I believe.. among others

I know the image is terrible yet I believe your point is made...   JFK drastically whips his head in what was supposed to be just a rip.. in a single frame
Below is a little analysis of the "rip" FWIW

Also below is Hickey looking at what some say was concrete dust flying up next to the limo as the result of a "ground level sound" as opposed to one originating much higher up...

I believe Chris Davidson mathematically illustrates how/why the Towner film was "burnt"....   finally, there is an amazingly strange anomaly in that Towner film which I will post about shortly. and by the way:

Brennan had to have seen this, no? 

Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn.
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb?
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.
If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here.
Mr. BELIN. All right.

Edited August 22, 2023 by David Josephs

[Paul Jolliffe]

15 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Richard, I'd like to go back and stand on the x's in the middle of Elm and look back at the window you suggest in Dal - Tex, last/3rd to the East on the sixth floor facing Elm.  I guess it's not an inconceivable shot though even further away for JFK's back or Connally.  But I have to wonder about all this.

Though Dal - Tex is definitely redder many might construe the TSBD as at least a light reddish, though in some pictures it does seem more of a tan or brown depending on the light.  I don't remember paying attention to the color in particular the times I've been there.  

In the statement above he mentions JFK being 50 yards down Elm.  Given where he was Actually sitting on the curve of the concrete "fence", facing  Dal-Tex, he would have to have at least his head turned pretty hard to the left to see this.  He then had to turn back  what 70 - 80 % to look up at the sixth floor of the TSBD, to see the scopeless gun and 30 year old 165 - 175 pound Oswald.  Or, 180% to see him in the Dal -Tex window you suggest. 

Good point, Ron.

However, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the particulars of Brennan's belated description of his own head movements during the shooting sequence - after all, his (???) 1987 book has that absurd claim that he witnessed both the firing of the third shot and the impact of the third bullet.

Impossible, no matter where the sniper was.

But Brennan's first day affidavit makes no mention of all of his later claims about turning to see both the shooter and the president. No, it simply states that after he heard the first shot, he turned to look up at the "last window I have previously described . . . It run in my mind that it might be someone throwing firecrackers out the window of the red brick building and I looked up at the building . . . I was looking at this man at the time of the last explosion."

So, your objections are to Brennan's later additions to his original simple statement to the Dallas Sheriff's Department. 

Forget about what he said later. What he said on the afternoon of 11/22/63 makes sense if he was talking about the Dal-Tex!

Remember, Brennan's first day affidavit tells us he saw a suspect in the "large red brick building" which strongly implies the Dal-Tex. Because David Belin and Warren Commission deliberately mislocated Brennan during the shooting, we know they knew the importance of hiding at which building Brennan was looking!

While we don't know for certain, it appears that the windows on the south side of the Dal-Tex could be opened higher than the windows in the TSBD. 

 

Can anyone here at this forum pay a visit to the Dal-Tex and do a little recon work on the sixth floor, south side, easternmost window? What was the floor plan of the sixth floor of the Dal-Tex in 1963? What offices or companies were there? Who owned the Dal-Tex? Where exactly was Jim Braden arrested?

[Paul Jolliffe]

57 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Hey there Paul...

I have this as further support for that early shot... I agree with you that a shot at z157/158 happened and was noticed by Rosemary, Hickey and JFK I believe.. among others

I know the image is terrible yet I believe your point is made...   JFK drastically whips his head in what was supposed to be just a rip.. in a single frame
Below is a little analysis of the "rip" FWIW

Also below is Hickey looking at what some say was concrete dust flying up next to the limo as the result of a "ground level sound" as opposed to one originating much higher up...

I believe Chris Davidson mathematically illustrates how/why the Towner film was "burnt"....   finally, there is an amazingly strange anomaly in that Towner film which I will post about shortly. and by the way:

Brennan had to have seen this, no? 

Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn.
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb?
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.
If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here.
Mr. BELIN. All right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fascinating, David!

I'd never seen the Hickey clip before. I agree he's clearly looking at something on the pavement - a missed shot, probably. And of course, the damage to the Zapruder film in those frames served to hide evidence of a missed shot or two.

If the limo did swing as far right before completing the left turn on to Elm as Truly indicated, then a sniper in the window of the south side of the Dal-Tex might have missed to the left. The Towner film indicates a missed shot from behind to the right, and Hickey's reaction indicates a missed shot to the left. Two misses. 

Two missed shots at that moment would explain why so many witnesses heard "firecrackers" - PLURAL!

 

 

 

[Richard Price]

I have the same questions, but too far away and no resources to expend getting to Dallas.  I found an old thread on this forum from 2012 by Mike Rago when the windows by the fire escapes was being discussed (I think).

It appears the book Triangle of Fire is the goto book for information on the Daltex building.

Does anyone know which floor of the Daltex building is being referred to in the following ....?

p. 216: Jim Braden may have visited Dallas Uranium and Oil rather than

looking for a pay phone, as he was upstairs. DU&O was located on

the west side of Dal-Tex, behind the fire-escape (the window from

which a rifle allegedly protrudes?)

Apparently, DUO also had an office on the 6th floor of the Daltex building at the same elevation as the 6th floor of the TSBD.

Any shot fired from the sixth floor of the Daltex building would have the correct downward angle to be confused as a shot from the sixth floor of the TSBD.

http://spot.acorn.ne...3/MS/2data.html

Edited November 24, 2012 by Mike Rago

[Richard Price]

Sorry to split the post into two parts, but does anyone on the forum have a 1963 city directory to look up tenants/businesses in the Dal-Tex?  I remember someone either on this forum or the old JFK Lancer either had one or access to information from one.  It could have been Jerry Dealey, but I'm not certain.

[Richard Price]

19 minutes ago, Richard Price said:

Sorry to split the post into two parts, but does anyone on the forum have a 1963 city directory to look up tenants/businesses in the Dal-Tex?  I remember someone either on this forum or the old JFK Lancer either had one or access to information from one.  It could have been Jerry Dealey, but I'm not certain.

I did find this (portion of an online blog called "Quixotic Joust".

Dallas Textile Mercantile Building? As the assassination investigation played out, it worked out great to have a grassy knoll diversion to take the focus off of the Dal-Tex.

Info I've culled from a few sources is that: the 1963 owners were Morris J. Russ and David R. Weisblat.

The 3rd floor was occupied by garment manufacturers Edward-Barry and Miller-Cupaioli. LBJ crony Morris Jaffe was a board member in both companies. He had made his fortune selling the South Texas uranium deposits to the Atomic Energy Commission during the 50's.

The 4th & 5th floors were occupied by Abraham Zapruder's dress-making company, Jennifer Juniors.

The 6th floor was shared by Marilyn Belt Manufacturing, lawyer Morty Freedman, and a front company named Dallas Uranium & Oil. All three shared the same telephone.

The 2nd floor was apparently unoccupied in November 1963.

The 1st floor had been used by the Texas School Book Depository company until sometime over the winter of '62-63

[David Josephs]

On 8/6/2020 at 5:43 PM, Richard Price said:

DU&O was located on

the west side of Dal-Tex, behind the fire-escape (the window from

which a rifle allegedly protrudes?)

 

This is an extreme closeup of the 3rd floor window...  that black blob is there in every version I've seen and seems to float over the photo...

Still appears like someone in that window

 

 

I've heard say the 2nd floor, 3rd floor, 6th floor and roof...  I don't think there are any photos of the 6th floor or roof during the motorcade...  ???

Here are the 2nd story on left and 3rd story fire escape windows

 

 

 

3rd floor

 

 

2nd and 3rd stories with Altgens photo enlargement down Houston

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by David Josephs