Jump to content
The Education Forum

Tippit Motive and Rifle Chain of Evidence, looking for some guidance.


Recommended Posts

13 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Nice one Karl.

Here is the Postal affidavit:

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338516/m1/1/

Please note the date on it. Almost two weeks after the assassination.

There are so many problems with this affidavit. I do not even know where to start. She could not have given a description to the cops since she never had a a good look at the guy who ran in the theater. She did not even know about the Tippit murder. If Brewer had not come down the street, she would have never called in the first place. She had to ask the police for a description.

But yet, despite all of that, six cruiser cars show up.  And they include Hill and Westbrook.

Thanks Jim, this is what amazes me about you guys. You know the material... that I can understand... but your ability to remember exactly where that information can be found to pass on to folks like me is beyond my ken. And that goes for all you guys who take the time and trouble to go over these basics of the case for those of us who want to know. 

I wonder what would have happened if Oswald HAD tried to leave before the Police arrived, since Johnny B and his pal had the doors covered. I always assumed that the reason JB didn't make the phone call to the DPD himself was that he was fairly keen to be "in on the action" of the arrest/tackling the suspect.

It seems from that affidavit that it was Ms Postal who was most instrumental in having Johnny and Burroughs check the theatre... I'd always thought Johnny had told her to make the phone call...

Edited by Tommy Tomlinson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 150
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I ran across this today, and I went, "Whoa".

Warren Commission Memo of Staff Meeting of 2 Mar 1964

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10393&search=%22Earlene_Roberts%22#relPageId=8&tab=page

The following task was assigned to Mr. Ball and Mr. Belin:

image.png.ad70d1bc707e752a6cf87461c4955e13.png

Does anybody know if the FBI followed up on this alleged phone call by Mr. Johnson?

This refutes the whole story of Earlene Roberts seeing Oswald on the TV after the police had already arrived.

The following task was assigned to Mr. Stern:

image.png.1d14424b2eca60d38cdab2d3614c9162.png

Steve  Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

I ran across this today, and I went, "Whoa".

Warren Commission Memo of Staff Meeting of 2 Mar 1964

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10393&search=%22Earlene_Roberts%22#relPageId=8&tab=page

The following task was assigned to Mr. Ball and Mr. Belin:

image.png.ad70d1bc707e752a6cf87461c4955e13.png

Does anybody know if the FBI followed up on this alleged phone call by Mr. Johnson?

This refutes the whole story of Earlene Roberts seeing Oswald on the TV after the police had already arrived.

The following task was assigned to Mr. Stern:

image.png.1d14424b2eca60d38cdab2d3614c9162.png

Steve  Thomas

d. in the link is interesting too.  What cops were near 1026 N. Beckley, including car 207?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

d. in the link is interesting too.  What cops were near 1026 N. Beckley, including car 207?

That seems a very ambiguous task, "Determination of police cars in vicinity..." (I used to work as a training consultant, and we would spend an entire day's session on how that sort of question is terrible, and if a manager asked a question or gave an instruction in such a vague manner they shouldn't hold the respondent to task over the quality of their reply. That sort of question was in the top two or three issues we used to address, right behind the phrase, "As Soon As Possible".) 

What does that even mean? "Determine whether there WERE any police cars?" (A simple "yes, and 207 was in the vicinity" would suffice.) "Determine WHICH police cars there were in the area?" (If it were that specific, 207 would surely show up and not require specifying) "Determine exactly where all police cars in the vicinity were, why and what they were doing?" (i.e a full and in depth investigation) or even "Assess the level of determination of the police cars in the area?" 

Vague questions allow the information that comes back to re-frame the intent of the question based on how much of that information they want to include in their report. 

7 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

That would be 3pm. The Oswald photo was distributed at 2:55pm by AP

Cheers Tony, that leads to the question, did the AP already have a photo on file from, say, the defection story or Oswald's arrest in New Orleans, or did they need to get one?

Prouty said he kept the newspaper he bought in New Zealand, but does anyone know if it (and other international papers) carried the same stock AP photo as the American press?

If they were the same photo it would suggest that the story was distributed by AP to New Zealand, putting some doubt on Prouty's assertion that they got it all too fast and it was a CIA Black Op. Unless, of course, the AP also got their photo from the CIA prior to the 2:55 distribution that you describe. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

d. in the link is interesting too.  What cops were near 1026 N. Beckley, including car 207?

Ron,

During her WC testimony on April 8, 1064, Earlene Roberts was challenged by Assistant Counsel, Joseph Ball about her FBI interview wherein she supposedly said she saw car number 207.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/robertse.htm

Roberts replied that she never said 207.

This staff meeting took place on March 2, 1964 and her FBI interview took place on November 29, 1963.

Mr. BALL. On the 29th of November, Special Agents Will Griffin and James Kennedy of the Federal Bureau of Investigation interviewed you and you told them that "after Oswald had entered his room about 1 p.m. on November 22, 1963, you looked out the front window and saw police car No. 207?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No. 107.

Either she misled the FBI, or Griffin and Kennedy got it wrong, or the transcriber mis-typed it.

What I was more interested in was that she said this car had two uniformed policemen in it. Who was using a two-man police car that day? She said it was a black car, and not a regular accident prevention patrol car.

I have not gone back and tried to find this alleged claim that Mr. Johnson called the police after he saw Oswald's picture on the TV. This goes against everyone's account of what happened that afternoon. Who made this claim? I have never heard of such a phone call.

Steve Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheers Tony, that leads to the question, did the AP already have a photo on file from, say, the defection story or Oswald's arrest in New Orleans, or did they need to get one?

Photo was of Oswald on arrival at Police HQ circa 2pm taken by Kaufman

I have not gone back and tried to find this alleged claim that Mr. Johnson called the police after he saw Oswald's picture on the TV. This goes against everyone's account of what happened that afternoon. Who made this claim? I have never heard of such a phone call.

Different stories, no tenant ledger, rent payments on paper scraps, no photos of Oswald evidence in situ, beeping cops, connections to Ruby. Not real hard to work out.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

 

Different stories, no tenant ledger, rent payments on paper scraps, no photos of Oswald evidence in situ, ( his room? ) beeping cops, connections to Ruby. Not real hard to work out.

 

 

Someone mentioned in an earlier post the likelihood that the "Tit Tit" Dallas cop car horn sound was probably made to move along a stopped or too slow car in front of them at the next intersection ( North Zang ) just past Oswald's North Beckley rooming house.

Never mind that rooming house manager Earline Roberts said the police car was parked at a stop right in front of her residence as she looked out her front door after she heard the "tit tit" horn sound.

The North Zane intersection was down another home distance away.

Apr 2, 2015 - The room is about 5 1/2 feet wide and 14 feet long. ... Pat knew Lee Oswald as a very nice man, and she tells Tom her story of those 6 weeks ...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Someone mentioned in an earlier post the likelihood that the "Tit Tit" Dallas cop car horn sound was probably made to move along a stopped or too slow car in front of them at the next intersection ( North Zang ) just past Oswald's North Beckley rooming house.

Never mind that rooming house manager Earline Roberts said the police car was parked at a stop right in front of her residence as she looked out her front door after she heard the "tit tit" horn sound.

The North Zane intersection was down another home distance away.

 

Joe,

That was me.

Here's a view standing in the street in front of 1026 N. Beckley looking north towards Zangs Blvd.image.png.c9356dc78e57608e567d8db1f0905654.png

Steve Thomas

Edited by Steve Thomas
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tony Krome said:

Cheers Tony, that leads to the question, did the AP already have a photo on file from, say, the defection story or Oswald's arrest in New Orleans, or did they need to get one?

Photo was of Oswald on arrival at Police HQ circa 2pm taken by Kaufman

 

So, it sounds like the photo the New Zealand newspaper had was from a different source than the AP, I seem to remember Prouty saying that the photo in that was a studio picture of Oswald in a suit jacket with shirt and tie.

In fact a swift search...

NZ Christchurch Star Oswald 23 Nov.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/14/2020 at 3:58 PM, Steve Thomas said:

I ran across this today, and I went, "Whoa".

Warren Commission Memo of Staff Meeting of 2 Mar 1964

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10393&search=%22Earlene_Roberts%22#relPageId=8&tab=page

The following task was assigned to Mr. Ball and Mr. Belin:

image.png.ad70d1bc707e752a6cf87461c4955e13.png

Does anybody know if the FBI followed up on this alleged phone call by Mr. Johnson?

This refutes the whole story of Earlene Roberts seeing Oswald on the TV after the police had already arrived.

Steve  Thomas

Arthur C. Johnson, the owner of the rooming house on Beckley told the Warren Commission (10H303)
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_a.htm


Mr. JOHNSON. Well, they just came down there looking for--uh--Oswald.
Mr. BELIN. Did they say what his full name was?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, I believe they did.
Mr. BELIN. Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. JOHNSON. I believe they did.
Mr. BELIN. Did they say how they happened to come there?
Mr. JOHNSON. "Well, uh--after he was--uh--apprehended out there, they searched him and found my address in his pocket.
Mr. BELIN. Your address of 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.

 

Gladys Johnson’s WC testimony:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_g.htm

Mr. BALL. Did you ever know his true name was Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. JOHNSON. No; not until we saw his picture flash on the television as the officers were out. Those particulars was found in his pocket after he killed Tippit, after his arrest.

\Mick Purdy in the ROKC Forum 12/08/2019

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1180p125-did-oswald-deny-living-at-1026-n-beckley

Washington Post reporter and Editor and General Manager of the Texas Observer, Ronnie Duggar

Duggar interviews Johnson

(perhaps in the 1966-67 time frame? (me)

image.png.11ade16681c9753eec582213792bb9b7.png

 

HSCA Interview with Amy Gladys Johnson 10/14/77

Bart Kamp in the ROKC Forum 02/08/2020

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1180p125-did-oswald-deny-living-at-1026-n-beckley

image.png.9e0b21919f610229ccb6d62afad3cf92.png

 

 

I personally think that that itty-bitty little piece of paper is a key to unraveling the mystery of Lee Harvey Oswald and the murder of John F. Kennedy.

1) Either that little piece of paper existed;, or,

2) It didn’t

 

Steve Thomas

Edited by Steve Thomas
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have spent hours and hours and hours poring over Invoices of Property seized from Lee Harvey Oswald, reading the after-action reports from the police officers who arrested him, and examining the contents of his wallet.

No such piece of paper exists.

That being the case; either the Johnsons lied to us, or the police lied to them. If the Johnsons were lying, it's a lie they maintained for more than 15 years, with no motive for doing so.

If the police lied to them, you have to ask why. How did the police learn of 1026 N. Beckley, and who directed them there?

Steve Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...