Creating the Oswald Legend part 4

[James DiEugenio]

Vasilios keeps up his fine work on the Oswald legend in his now four part series, I think it will max out at six.

The first part of this deals with the Oswald file at CIA.  I cannot give Malcolm Blunt enough credit for what he contributed to this part.  It is a milestone in the sense that it uncovers an unknown heroine, Betsy Wolf.  What this woman did with the Oswald file at CIA has never been revealed before, not even in the work of John Newman. In fact, her name is not in Oswald and the CIA. But wait until you see what she discovered.  VV then continues with that angle with the Pedro Charles letters etc.  Very nice work. What an unadulterated cover up the WC was. And Belin lied his head off about it:  "I have seen every CIA document on Oswald."  He didn't even know he was being played, but Betsy found  out he had.

 

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/creating-the-oswald-legend-part-4

Edited August 17, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[Pete Mellor]

18 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/creating-the-oswald-legend-part-4

On November 4, 1963, the Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) sent a cable to the Embassy in Moscow requesting to learn more about Oswald? 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Pete Mellor said:

On November 4, 1963, the Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) sent a cable to the Embassy in Moscow requesting to learn more about Oswald? 

 

Two days after the Diem brothers are killed and the Chicago plot was foiled. 

[James DiEugenio]

It was corrected.  Obviously a mistake.

That is all the interesting stuff you guys could find?

All those documents missing from the file when the WC looked at it?

Rocca sending down messages to Echeverria about Duran in 24 hours. de Paz being escorted to a hotel with a CIA agent in 24 hours.

Someone getting to Mail Logistics to detour the Oswald file?  The Gambino interview not existing except in Betsy Wolf's notes.

None of that moves the meter?  OK, go back to sleep fellas.

 

 

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

Two other things; 

I don't think you will see a graph like that of the rerouting  of Oswald's file anywhere.  But that is how his documents ended up at Office of Security. They bypassed the regular system of dissemination. And Security did not open 201 files, as Betsy Wolf found out.  So whoever did that misdirection, knew that by sending Oswald's papers to that office, they closed off anyone from opening a 201. If, for example, it had gone to CounterIntelligence, they did sometimes open a 201. That is how determined and sagacious the design was on this.

Second, has anyone ever shown the top sheet to the 201 file that Ann Egerter used when CIA finally set up a 201, 13 months later?  It was for Lee Henry Oswald.  The source document checkbox was CI/SIG, which is not a document.  And Dottie Lynch at Soviet Russia (SR) division was now asking for the files, which proves nothing had gotten to SR, where the documents should have gone in the first place, prior to this.

All of this indicates, I think, that far from the CIA having no interest in Oswald, this shows that someone in CIA had a real interest in Oswald. And  it looks like that interest occurred before the defection.

I don't  think Betsy Wolf knew that she had latched on to the tail of a tiger.  Would love to talk to her today, if she is still alive.

 

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Two other things; 

I don't think you will see a graph like that of the rerouting  of Oswald's file anywhere.  But that is how his documents ended up at Office of Security. They bypassed the regular system of dissemination. And Security did not open 201 files, as Betsy Wolf found out.  So whoever did that misdirection, knew that by sending Oswald's papers to that office, they closed off anyone from opening a 201. If, for example, it had gone to CounterIntelligence, they did sometimes open a 201. That is how determined and sagacious the design was on this.

Second, has anyone ever shown the top sheet to the 201 file that Ann Egerter used when CIA finally set up a 201, 13 months later?  It was for Lee Henry Oswald.  The source document checkbox was CI/SIG, which is not a document.  And Dottie Lynch at Soviet Russia (SR) division was now asking for the files, which proves nothing had gotten to SR, where the documents should have gone in the first place, prior to this.

All of this indicates, I think, that far from the CIA having no interest in Oswald, this shows that someone in CIA had a real interest in Oswald. And  it looks like that interest occurred before the defection.

I don't  think Betsy Wolf knew that she had latched on to the tail of a tiger.  Would love to talk to her today, if she is still alive.

 

To be honest, its a fascinating piece. Earl Cabell being an asset, makes the choice of roses seem a bit more deliberate. 
 

One thing that occurred to me is; I wonder what Thomas Arthur Vallee’s files look like? If indeed they exist? Presumably if he was to be a fall guy, then some significant prep would have been done for release on the 2nd November or thereafter. 
 

If Betsy is still alive, I am sure you can find her. I spent an hour on the phone last week to one of the sons of Emory Roberts (Doug), he actually read his fathers report before it was filed. Totally fruitless convo.

[James DiEugenio]

From what I understand,  according to Lesar, Betsy is still around.

But she is quite shy about talking about her work.  I just wonder if now that some of it is out, she will change her mind.

I really do not think she understood what she had done.  The interview with Gambino was really important.  Someone knew how to bypass the system.

Edited August 19, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[Larry Hancock]

Chris, Vallee's Secret Service PRS files have been available for years as have his Chicago arrest files; I obtained several hundred pages of them and wrote about him from those circa 2006.  The HSCA investigation of him is also available. If you check my Wordpress blog  you should find that HSCA material linked in my posts on him.

https://larryhancock.wordpress.com/2018/12/26/the-chicago-threat-part-1/

For reference, the SS routinely interviewed him for several years after the assassination based on the per-assassination report to them that he might constitute a threat to the president; they carried that same line of inquiry forward to monitor whether or not he presented a potential threat to LBJ.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Larry Hancock

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Chris, Vallee's Secret Service PRS files have been available for years as have his Chicago arrest files; I obtained several hundred pages of them and wrote about him from those circa 2006.  The HSCA investigation of him is also available. If you check my Wordpress blog  you should find that HSCA material linked in my posts on him.

https://larryhancock.wordpress.com/2018/12/26/the-chicago-threat-part-1/

For reference, the SS routinely interviewed him for several years after the assassination based on the per-assassination report to them that he might constitute a threat to the president; they carried that same line of inquiry forward to monitor whether or not he presented a potential threat to LBJ.

 

 

Thanks Larry, I have read part 1 & 2. It totally stinks that even almost 60 years later the individuals arrested have not been named. It surely implies that some of those individuals must pop up in Dallas.

[Larry Hancock]

As far as I can tell the only individual actually arrested in Chicago as a threat to the President was Vallee (who had made a verbal if generic threat, officially reported to the Secret Service).  However he was only charged and convicted in regard to his possession of the hunting knife.  The guys the Secret Service were warned about by the FBI were picked up were questioned by the Secret Service but then handed off to police for questioning and released uncharged - because there was no actual evidence against them and nothing overtly illegal that would have supported charges.

However I suspect the FBI investigation of Echeveria does reveal the group the two were associated with, if not their exact names (perhaps one name).  In any event, I'll be discussing that more and how their appearance in Chicago relates to events in Dallas in my work that will be appearing on MFF in a month or so.  Of course that will just be my take on things.

[Guest]

As a layman your logical conclusion is; why else hide the names of those questioned if it wasn’t related. Look forward to your further writing / conclusions. Thanks 

[Larry Hancock]

The names would appear two places,  in the FBI advisory to the SS that Bolden described (which actually might or might not have contained specific names) and in the Secret Service paperwork on what went on in Chicago in response (including a major blunder by SS agents as described by Bolden).   Bolden himself relates that the SS file on the incident was taken out the office and sent to DC.  Later inquiries by the ARRB seem to corroborate that because both agents and office staff totally stonewalled them regarding the incident and the paperwork.

To answer your question as to why it was suppressed, I think this incident and others did indeed very much reveal that JFK was at risk that fall, that the Secret Service knew that and took special precautions in response.  We certainly know they did on his trip to Florida a short time later. And we know that against ARRB instructions, several SS trip files from that fall were destroyed.  So yes, in that regard I do think paperwork was actually destroyed, possibly some as late as the 1990'sand  that it would have revealed concerns and possibly special precautions (possibly confirming that the Secret Service took some special PRS measures which ended up being not nearly enough).  Not something they wanted to come under scrutiny, especially public scrutiny.

As to the FBI side of it,  if the individuals being warned about were involved with DRE, as I think they were, the FBI was in an interesting bind - they repeatedly were involved in surveillance of DRE and in efforts to abort their weapons and explosives buys.  And they knew that DRE was making very hostile statements against JFK. But while selling weapons and explosives was illegal, buying them, or tying to buy them was not.  We even have an example I cover in detail where the FBI conducted an extensive investigation and even took certain DRE members into custody for explosives buys in Illinois, but ultimately had no grounds to actually charge them. Not only that, but several of them had been used by the CIA previously, were involved in ongoing CIA projects, and would be taken into a new one within weeks - only to essentially go black and off the grid until showing up off shore following the assassination.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

The names would appear two places,  in the FBI advisory to the SS that Bolden described (which actually might or might not have contained specific names) and in the Secret Service paperwork on what went on in Chicago in response (including a major blunder by SS agents as described by Bolden).   Bolden himself relates that the SS file on the incident was taken out the office and sent to DC.  Later inquiries by the ARRB seem to corroborate that because both agents and office staff totally stonewalled them regarding the incident and the paperwork.

To answer your question as to why it was suppressed, I think this incident and others did indeed very much reveal that JFK was at risk that fall, that the Secret Service knew that and took special precautions in response.  We certainly know they did on his trip to Florida a short time later. And we know that against ARRB instructions, several SS trip files from that fall were destroyed.  So yes, in that regard I do think paperwork was actually destroyed, possibly some as late as the 1990'sand  that it would have revealed concerns and possibly special precautions (possibly confirming that the Secret Service took some special PRS measures which ended up being not nearly enough).  Not something they wanted to come under scrutiny, especially public scrutiny.

As to the FBI side of it,  if the individuals being warned about were involved with DRE, as I think they were, the FBI was in an interesting bind - they repeatedly were involved in surveillance of DRE and in efforts to abort their weapons and explosives buys.  And they knew that DRE was making very hostile statements against JFK. But while selling weapons and explosives was illegal, buying them, or tying to buy them was not.  We even have an example I cover in detail where the FBI conducted an extensive investigation and even took certain DRE members into custody for explosives buys in Illinois, but ultimately had no grounds to actually charge them. Not only that, but several of them had been used by the CIA previously, were involved in ongoing CIA projects, and would be taken into a new one within weeks - only to essentially go black and off the grid until showing up off shore following the assassination.

 

 

 

 

Was there a plot when Cubans rented or were residing in the house next door to JP Kennedy’s Palm Beach residence, there was a boat directly offshore, opposite the house if I remember correctly?! 

[Vasilios Vazakas]

with all the respect and admiration i have for larry Hancock i would kindly appreciate if we discuss betsy wolf and the article

instead of Valee and chicago which although very interesting are not relevant to this topic and maybe create a new thread about valee and chicago

[Guest]

Hi Vasilios,

it might be a good start if you give some of your own views on Betsy Wolf, I personally have just discovered her. The potentially ‘irrelevant’ replies may help the thread gain more notoriety as more people will see it as a result, which is good.