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Why Jeremy Bojczuk is wrong about the Harvey & Lee theory and Lifton's body alteration theory.


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On 9/12/2020 at 6:13 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

The most convincing witnesses were Dr. Homer Wood and his 13-year-old son Sterling.  In describing who they saw at the Sports Drome rifle range, both father and son independently right after the assassination recognized the man each had seen at the range just six days before the assassination. Both Dr. Wood and his son testified and were convincing witnesses. 

The Woods were so believable Sylvia Meagher considered the possibility that LHO was indeed at the range that day.  

Disagree. The problem is twofold: (a) neither of these witnesses knew Oswald before the Sports Drome sightings, and (b) nothing about the individual they saw at the Sports Drome identified that person as Oswald other than a claim of physical resemblance based on these witnesses seeing Oswald on TV after the assassination. There was the gun/gun association, but that is too general. The person at the Sports Drome never was remembered to have called himself "Oswald" or "Lee" or to have spoken of being in the Marines or of having gone to Russia, or having a wife named Marina. Those are the kinds of things I am talking about. 

You will not disagree that in high-profile crime cases there will be sincere, but mistaken, witness identifications and claimed sightings based on physical resemblance alone. e.g. Marguerite Oswald thought a photo of a visitor to the Soviet embassy in Mexico City was Ruby!--based on her seeing Ruby on TV and a physical resemblance. Nothing more complicated going on there than Marguerite simply was mistaken.

Because the positive case for this individual at the Sports Drome being Oswald is weak--based on resemblance alone to Oswald as seen on television--which could or could not be correct--other information must be considered. Is the individual seen at the Sports Drome consistent with what is known of Oswald? Well, that is questionable. He was a crack shot--fired rapidly and with accuracy at the target, according to those who saw him. There is no independent confirmation Oswald was a crack shot able to fire rapidly with accuracy. This individual is seen driving a vehicle. Whereas Oswald (per argument) visited the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership for a test drive of a car, he was not simply driving around town with a vehicle in Oct-Nov 1963, according to all other reliable testimony. And the sightings at the Sports Drome are incompatible with the detailed and calendar-supported testimony of Ruth Paine regarding timeline. Of course there are judgment calls here. If you want to throw out Ruth Paine's testimony as filled with fabrications and say she was just wilfully lying on nearly everything and has never been charged with perjury, that is a theoretical possibility with any witness, but it is not my judgment concerning Ruth Paine's testimony.

There is a story that Sterling Wood later told of him and his father having given this person a ride home from the Sports Drome, speaking of Minsk, and then later post-assassination his father corresponding with Marina Oswald. What I make of that is that as a totally separate matter the Woods did have Minsk in their family history so wrote Marina after the assassination and received some note of reply from Marina, but that the guy Sterling said they encountered at the Sports Drome was not Oswald, though Sterling Wood conflated these two things years later as connected. 

Since the positive grounds for supposing the person at the Sports Drome is the weakest form of physical identification-- retroactive identification based on resemblance to someone seen on TV--and nothing substantial stronger than that--at best this is a "maybe". It certainly falls far short of stand-alone ironclad rock-solid stand-alone establishment of a fact. The "maybe" means it could be, or it could not be--like a lot of other tips and leads that pour into police departments in the wake of high-profile crime cases.

Because the timeline objection is substantial and specific, and because the positive case for an Oswald identify is weak and not strong (in terms of assessment of genre of the nature of the evidence), it must be considered that the individual seen was someone who resembled Oswald but was not Oswald. Not an impersonator! There is no evidence that individual was impersonating anyone, pretending to be anyone other than himself. He just was thought to look like the same guy several people later saw on TV. That is not impersonation. That is an issue of correct or indirect physical identification of witnesses. 

Frank Ellsworth, the BATF agent, told of seeing crack-shot German and Italian gun expert and dealer Thomas Masen, in the Dallas Police department being questioned about a gun-running charge and Ellsworth doing a double-take, for his first thought was it was Oswald! Similar height, physical build, facial appearance... But as he quickly saw moments later it was not Oswald, it was Thomas Masen, for whom there is no known or established connection to Oswald other than--in the case of Ellsworth at least that time--what some might see as physical resemblance. 

Frank Ellsworth suggested that Thomas Masen would fit very well with the individual seen at the Sports Drome firing range, and in light of the firearms expertise parallel, that suggestion, although not certain, makes excellent sense to me.

I don't understand--why the leap from a weak form of positive evidence in this case (witnesses claiming recognition of someone based on later seeing someone on TV)--to far-fetched theories of intentional impersonations or doppelgangers or that Ruth Paine fabricated her entire testimony. There is not the slightest witness testimony to suppose that the nameless Sports Drome target shooter ever claimed to be anyone other than himself.

I don't think the Sports Drome target shooter had anything to do with Oswald. I admit few things are 100% certain and in many cases the best one can do is make judgment calls. Here is my judgment call: it was not Oswald, and it was not anyone claiming to be Oswald, even though it was someone who a few persons thought looked like Oswald based on what they saw on TV. I think this has been a red herring all this time in assessment of Oswald. 

 

 

Edited by Greg Doudna
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9 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

It's almost comical that after nearly sixty years we're still playing these games and can't even get a straight yes or no answer on a simple three-word question: "Could Oswald drive?"

The answer is "kinda?" What kind of answer is that? He couldn't drive well enough in an empty parking lot to warrant further lessons, a month later he was driving surface streets at night and expressways at high speeds without incident, yet less than a month later he couldn't drive well enough to make a getaway after committing the crime of the century?

At what point do reasonable people drop the fantasy?

 

8 hours ago, Dan Troyer said:

Denny, very nice write up. 

Makes you also wonder who the 14-year-old boy was?

Mr. JENNER. Was there ever an occasion when you saw him driving up that he had the 14-year-old boy-with him?
Mr. SHASTEEN. Yes; the night he got the haircut.

Nicely put, Mr. Zartman.  I believe the truth is that there were two very different "Lee Harvey Oswalds."  One DID NOT have a drivers license and was still learning to drive when Jack Ruby killed him.  The other HAD A VALID TEXAS DRIVERS LICENSE and had driven cars for some time.

Marina and the Paines clearly testified that Oswald did not drive and did not have a driver's license. It is remarkable, then, that more than thirty people told the Warren Commission, the FBI, and/or Garrison investigators that Oswald did drive. Some of these people saw (American-born LEE) Oswald's driver's license and others described the car he was driving:

PEOPLE WHO HAD KNOWLEDGE THAT LEE COULD DRIVE

Cliff Shasteen

Joyce Bostic

Leonard Hutchison

Inez Laake

Fred Moore (saw driver's license)

Gayle Scott

Malcolm Price

Peggy Smith

Floyd Guy Davis

Mrs. Ernie Isaacs

Gertrude Hunter

Margaret Budreau

Edith Whitworth

Clifford Wormser

Red Pope

FBI Agent Bob Barrett (saw driver's license)

Leo Sepulveda

DPD Captain Westbrook (saw driver's license)

Sonny Stewart

Edward Brand

Robert Janca

Garland Slack

Robert Roy

William J. Chesher

Al Bogard

Howard Price

W.M. Hannie

Sterling Wood

Mrs. Lee Bozarth (handled Oswald's driver's license)

Dr. Homer Wood

Aletha Frair (held Oswald's driver's license)

Randy Sundy

 

EDITH WHITWORTH

Edith Whitworth operated a used furniture store at 149 East Irving Boulevard and recalled that Oswald drove to her store in a "two-toned blue and white" automobile:

Mr. LIEBELER. You saw him drive up in the car?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Yes; because it was all glass in front and I was sitting at the--well, it's the cash stand-- we call it there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Which direction was he driving the car at that time?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Driving west on a one-way street--that's a one way there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Running from east to west?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. East to west.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of a car did he have, Mrs. Whitworth?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Well, as far as I can remember--I wouldn't be---I wouldn't say for sure. All I can say is that I believe, you know, not paying a lot of attention to the car and the car not meaning anything at that time, that it was a two-tone blue and white. It was either a Ford or a Plymouth. Now, I wouldn't swear to that, but it was either one the car didn't mean anything to me at that time. Anyway, he came in and he stood--. (WC XI, 264)

Gertrude Hunter, a friend of Furniture Mart owner Edith Whitworth. Gertrude Hunter confirmed her friend's statement. She said Oswald arrived in a 1957 or 1958 two-tone blue Ford.

Mr. LIEBELER. It appears from information that has been provided to us by the FBI that you were in a store operated by Mrs. Whitworth sometime in 1963--that was formerly operated by Mrs. Whitworth--at which time people who you now believe to be Lee Harvey Oswald and his wife and-children came into the store, is that correct?
Mrs. HUNTER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell us all the circumstances surrounding that event as best you can remember them?
Mrs. HUNTER. Well, it was after 2 o'clock and I had went down to talk to her--we were planning on a football trip and we were just sitting there in the store talking, discussing football games, and who was going with who and all, and this man drove up out in front of the store and he got out and he come in and he asked for a gunsmith.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see the car drive up?
Mrs. HUNTER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see who was driving it?
Mrs. HUNTER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was this man driving it?
Mrs. HUNTER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How many people were in the car?
Mrs. HUNTER. Just him and a woman and two children.
Mr. LIEBELER. Nobody else?
Mrs. HUNTER. No one else.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are quite sure about that?
Mrs. HUNTER. I'm positive, because I was sitting right there I was sitting this way and the door was right here [indicating], and he drove cater-cornered up.
Mr. LIEBELER. And there are glass windows in the front of the store so that you could see right out into the street?
Mrs. HUNTER. It is a solid glass there and the door was standing open there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know about what kind of car it was?
Mrs. HUNTER. Now, the reason I'm definite about the car--a friend of .mine in Houston--I was looking for them up and they had a car just like this and I had left a note on my mailbox that I would be at this place--- telling them if anyone come I would be at this place and when they drove up I thought that was them and it was a two-tone-blue Ford.
Mr. LIEBELER. What year?
Mrs. HUNTER. 1957 or 1958--I won't be positive about that, but I would rather say it was about a 1957, I think. (WC XI, 254-255)

WC staffers were confused by the conflicting testimony, and so they arranged to have Marina Oswald, Gertrude Hunter, and Edith Whitworth appear together in an attempt to resolve the conflicts. Hunter and Whitworth both identified Marina as the woman they had seen arriving at the Furniture Mart in a car driven by Lee Harvey Oswald, but Marina denied everything.

Mrs. OSWALD. I have never seen Lee drive the car in my lifetime. Lee never drove a car with me or the children in it. The only time I saw him behind the wheel was when Ruth Paine taught him to drive the car, he was practicing parking the car when Ruth Paine was teaching him to drive.
Mr. LIEBELER. And that was all in front of Mr. Paine's house; wasn't it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I'm sure this lady is trying to tell the truth, but the only possible person who could have driven the car when we were in that store could have been Mrs. Ruth Paine. She knows all the stores where we went because we never went there without her. (WC XI, 280)
Edited by Jim Hargrove
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Bill Simpich has just informed us that part 12 of his excellent Legend series is now online at https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_Oswald_Legend_12.html.

Simpich deals with several of the apparent instances of Oswald being impersonated shortly before the assassination. He makes a very plausible case that Jack Lawrence, the short-term car salesman colleague of Albert Bogard, went out of his way to publicise the reckless test drive by someone who may or may not have been Oswald.

Greg Doudna writes that the "14-year-old boy" seen by Cliff Shasteen might have been the 19-year-old Buell Wesley Frazier. That's possible, but Simpich is inclined to go with Greg Parker's suggestion that the boy was William Hootkins, who had been studying Russian with Ruth Paine and whose physique matched that of the boy ("husky" was Shasteen's description, which didn't match Frazier at all). See:

- https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1952-william-hootkins-is-innocent

- http://www.jfkconversations.com/supplement-lee-harvey-oswalds-cold-war

Incidentally, Hootkins went on to become an actor and featured in a BBC radio play about the man himself, Oswald in Russia: https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/8a1f3c3a9837441cb1d96d5648414889.

The apparent impersonations of Oswald in the Dallas area can be accounted for in various ways: some may have been genuine, some were cases of mistaken identity (sightings of Oswald at the Carousel Club or with Jack Ruby were surely of Ruby's handyman, Larry Crafard), and some featured the one and only, real-life, historical Lee Harvey Oswald himself. Any that were genuine would have been ad hoc events, created specifically to portray him as the type of person who might want to kill a president.

The least likely interpretation is that any of this was connected to a preposterous long-term double-doppelganger scheme which, as we have seen, could never have been implemented in the first place because those in charge of the scheme had a far more plausible way to achieve their hypothetical goals.

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Jeremy,

Thanks, for your above links, and comments about the  "14-year-old boy" , Oswald, and Cliff Shasteen.  I read through Greg Parker's work, interesting that Ruth Paine's work with the Jewish teen Hootkins, relates to her previous work with elderly Russian/Jewish immigrants in Indiana in the 50's. 

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On 9/13/2020 at 5:05 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

Nicely put, Mr. Zartman.  I believe the truth is that there were two very different "Lee Harvey Oswalds."  One DID NOT have a drivers license and was still learning to drive when Jack Ruby killed him.  The other HAD A VALID TEXAS DRIVERS LICENSE and had driven cars for some time.

...<snip>...

WC staffers were confused by the conflicting testimony, and so they arranged to have Marina Oswald, Gertrude Hunter, and Edith Whitworth appear together in an attempt to resolve the conflicts. Hunter and Whitworth both identified Marina as the woman they had seen arriving at the Furniture Mart in a car driven by Lee Harvey Oswald, but Marina denied everything.

I agree with Jeremy Bojczuk, there was only one Lee Harvey Oswald with at most one-off specific impersonations if at all. If there had been two actual individuals named Lee Harvey Oswalds, each having the same legal name living in the Dallas area in the fall of 1963--legal names--each with a baby daughter born in October 1963--public records surely would have made that unambiguously clear by now. 

Two incidental details from that furniture store episode of interest: first, Oswald's claim that he will be coming into money to buy furniture and would be needing some soon. This corresponds with other indications, on the money end e.g. what he said to Bogard at the Lincoln Mercury dealership, and separately, my proposed interpretation of what LHO carried with Buell Wesley Frazer to work the morning of Nov 22 and the two package mailings.

The second detail I notice is Whitworth's testimony of how Marina with Oswald in her furniture store--which I take to have been Marina despite Marina's denial--showed complete disinterest in Lee's interest in furniture. Lee was wanting to reunite with Marina and his family living with him just as soon as that could be done. Lee suggested to Marina the evening of Nov 21 that they rent an apartment the very next day--and that he would buy her a washing machine too--and Marina stalled and rebuffed, saying "wait until after Christmas". Marina's response to Oswald--and in the furniture store--suggest to me that whereas Oswald foresaw reuniting with Marina in a home living together, it is possible that was not Marina's emerging vision of her future. Did Marina envision remaining separated from Lee for a bit longer and ultimately divorcing and making a life independent from Lee? That is the subtle clue I pick up from the detail of Marina's (according to Whitworth, a reliable witness sensitive to customers' nuances of behavior in her store) absolute disinterest in any furniture items that Whitworth tried to show them, and in which Lee showed an interest. 

Edited by Greg Doudna
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Speaking of the Sports Drome how about Garland Slack's Warren Commission testimony?

https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh10/pdf/WH10_Slack.pdf

He goes into great detail about Oswald's rifle at the Sports Drome not being the same as the one found at TSBD.

I also find his statement from Nov 22nd quite interesting since he was in  Dealey Plaza. It gives the impression the shot may have come from further inside of a building than from a rifle hanging outside of a window.

When the sound of this shot came, it sounded to me like this shot came from away back or from within a building. I have heard this same sort of sound when a shot has come from within a cave, as I have been on many big game hunts.

/s/ G. G. Slack

so find his statement

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6 hours ago, John Deignan said:

Speaking of the Sports Drome how about Garland Slack's Warren Commission testimony?

https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh10/pdf/WH10_Slack.pdf

He goes into great detail about Oswald's rifle at the Sports Drome not being the same as the one found at TSBD.

I also find his statement from Nov 22nd quite interesting since he was in  Dealey Plaza. It gives the impression the shot may have come from further inside of a building than from a rifle hanging outside of a window.

When the sound of this shot came, it sounded to me like this shot came from away back or from within a building. I have heard this same sort of sound when a shot has come from within a cave, as I have been on many big game hunts.

/s/ G. G. Slack

so find his statement

Could be the reason why lots of people said the first shot sounded like a backfire.

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