Lone Gunman podcast: L. Fletcher Prouty a xxxx?

[David Andrews]

I really don't want to get into a war here.  I'm just attaching Chapter 2 of Joseph J. Trento's Prelude to Terror: The Rogue CIA and the Legacy of America's Private Intelligence Network (2005), entitled Recruiting George H. W. Bush.  I believe I can go this far under the Fair Use standards.

Trento compiles a history of the intelligence activities that preceded 9/11.  Part of his thesis is that a Bush vice-presidency and presidency helped restore strength to a CIA weakened by Jimmy Carter and Stansfield Turner, and that Bush was at the very least aware* that the diminished CIA operated through privatized banks, business fronts and foreign intelligence services (Israeli, Saudi) before the Reagan years, and then didn't stop.  Such activities led to Iran-Contra and the development of al Qaeda.

[*I have not yet finished the book.  Perhaps I can offer more later.]

Trento ends Chapter 1 with an account by CIA asset William R. Corson of how and why Allen Dulles recruited GHWB as an asset:

Corson, who later worked personally for Dulles, warned [Prescott] Bush about Dulles's recruiting methods. "I told him that it would not be beyond Dulles to try to get favorable treatment for the Agency by trying to get close to relatives of those charged with oversight. He [Prescott] just shook his head and laughed. ... He disparaged George. ... He thought George relied too much on the family. I doubt that Prescott Bush would ever suspect Dulles of trying to recruit a senator's son." But "it was Allen Dulles's way of . . . controlling people who had control over him. Prescott Bush was a very impressive man, just the kind of man that Dulles would want to be able to control. If he could control the son of the man who could veto their operations, Dulles would do it."38

[38. From a series of interviews with William R. Corson, 1971-2000.]

Now read Chapter 2, attached.  Did GHWB's Zapata oil drilling company go under because George was a poor businessman, or was conducting a bust-out scheme for CIA, or because George was also rather busy in other endeavors?

Do what you want with the material, but don't fart in my general direction.

 

 

Edited March 16 by David Andrews

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

W.-You always cite that litany of stuff, which is no specific proof at all that Bush was at Dealey plaza Only that he had things to explain, that we never got around to hearing.  Most of which I've believed for a long time. But I don't want to go into again. We've talked about this before. You can  read my observations where I said all of this in the post that you were looking for than Ron produced that you of course started a couple of years back.

I would say, I tend to agree with what Joe just said (minus Lansdale), plus probably what Jim Di, Larry Hancock, I would imagine would say about that theory because the controversy around that picture has gone on for a long time. If you read what I said earlier,  you're going to convince very few people from that photo.

 

Kirk,

     You don't seem to understand heuristic process, nor the evidence and arguments that I have posted in this discussion, (which, by the way, have been repeatedly interrupted by various deflective, often inaccurate claims.)  I'm not "trying to convert" anyone.  I'm open to concluding whatever the evidence actually shows.

     What does it show? 

     Why the strange FBI phone call by GHWB naming Parrott as a suspect? 

     Why the strange Barbara Bush letter?

     Put aside your a priori assumptions and look at this photo for a minute.  Is it GHWB?  Yes or no?  Let's hear your "diagnosis."

     Instead of studying and discussing the evidence-- e.g., the photos, the FBI phone call, the Barbara Bush letter (what you refer to as a "litany")  -- you have simply glossed over the data and repeated your fixed opinion that "all of this has been already been discussed, debunked," etc.  

    Your comments beg the serious questions rather than answering them.

    1)  Was George H.W. Bush in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63?

    2)  Hypothesis: Is it possible that GHWB never went to Tyler, Texas on 11/22/63?  What is the definitive evidence, knowing as we do, that the CIA is very good at creating legends and cover stories?

Edited December 3, 2020 by W. Niederhut

[Paul Brancato]

So if the picture is of Bush he lied about his whereabouts. I see that. What would you presume his role would have been? 

 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

So if the picture is of Bush he lied about his whereabouts. I see that. What would you presume his role would have been? 

 

I know it's not for me but that's a good question Paul.  Foreword observer for . . . ("retired") Dulles, himself monitoring things from the Farm that afternoon/evening per Talbot.  Bagman for Cuban shooters - I don't think so.

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

So if the picture is of Bush he lied about his whereabouts. I see that. What would you presume his role would have been? 

 

     Not sure where GHWB would have fit into the Company's organizational chart, Paul.  Arranging transportation and funding?  (Didn't he furnish two boats for the Bay of Pigs thing?) 

      He was important enough to receive a personal briefing from Hoover, as a representative of the CIA.

    I've been more focused on the subject of his whereabouts when JFK was murdered.

    How would Americans (including Kirk and Cory) feel if they found out that future POTUS George Herbert Walker Bush was in Dealey Plaza when JFK was killed?

     I think many people would be shocked and disillusioned-- though, perhaps not the people on this forum.

[Ron Bulman]

15 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ron,

     You're a serious JFKA scholar, IMO, who has done a lot of reading and critical thinking about the Dallas op.  And you're also familiar with the area.  (Your advice about my first visit to Dealey Plaza last December was helpful.)

    Question.  Given the CIA's well known ability to fabricate legends, cover stories, false identities, false witnesses, and false histories, (in books and on social media) is it possible that GHWB's alleged visit to Tyler, Texas on 11/22/63 never happened?  Just a hypothesis.

     We know that GHWB's 11/22/63 phone call to the FBI about James Parrott makes no sense.  Russ Baker makes a good case that the phone call was, apparently, used to establish an alibi.   Bush also told the FBI that he would be staying at the Dallas Sheraton on the night of 11/22/63, when, in fact, he had stayed there on the night of 11/21/63 before, allegedly, flying back to Houston by an oddly circuitous route on 11/22/63.

     We know that Barbara Bush's elaborate letter to her young children-- written on the same day that she returned home to the children in Houston-- makes no sense.

     So, isn't it possible that the alleged "witness" in Tyler was working with GHWB and the Company on a fictional, Tyler, Texas cover story?  How difficult could it have been for the Company to contract with a false "witness" in Tyler, Texas  (just as they contracted with Dallas Mayor Earl Cabell and others in Dallas?)

      Next question.  Do you know if anyone has done any real detective work in Tyler-- e.g., reviewing microfilm or hard copies of Tyler newspapers from November 21-23 of 1963 to see if there are any references or photos about GHWB giving a speech at the Kiwanis Club?

Yes it's possible Tyler was a cover story for GHWB in Dealy Plaza.  It's possible the Tyler Kiwanis VP was still covering for him when Baker interviewed him in 2007.  But I question the likelihood.

No I don't remember seeing anything about documentation either way.  I looked myself today a bit.  The Tyler Morning Telegraph for 11/21 and 11/22/63 is available through newspapers.com.  Free 7 day trial if you provide a credit card number.  And remember to un subscribe within 7 days.  

I'd think a visiting Republican Senate candidate in conservative Tyler would be newsworthy, in advance.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Ron Bulman

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Wow! Is this thread is still going on?

Did somebody call me?

 

I see W. is positively ebullient at making his first convert to the "GWB in Dealey plaza" decades long theory with Locked down Brit Chris.

But we're used to dealing with W's mood swings and his frailties and insecurities.

But we all love him for it.

He's sort of the forum "Frazier".

 

heh heh heh

 

Oh yes Chris, I've written"glowing things" of Bush in the past as anyone will tell you!.

 

His new  photo expert convert Chris  owes his presence here to Donald Trump's winning the election in 2016. His biggest regret in life up to now is that Boris isn't more like Trump. Chris is on the prowl for greater and greater life enriching conspiracy experiences as I see now I have been added to his list of conspirators. Chris is relentless and won't be satisfied until his list of ongoing conspirators reaches at least half the population of the U.S.!

(which of course explains the election results "hoax"!!)

 

 

Heh heh    Ok, maybe I'm not being completely fair.

Chin up old boy! Laughter is good for the soul!

 

 

Re: Bush in DP:

 

Still I look to find a reason to believe.

 

Tim Hardin

 

 

Well, that's cheered me up at breakfast 🙂  Did you have one drink or two too many last night?
I'd say you're about one stage from cutting an ear off. 

P.S. I am now not lucked down and I am experiencing freedom and liberty to its maximum. 

 

[Calvin Ye]

On 10/30/2020 at 9:02 AM, David Andrews said:

People often confuse Prouty's "secret team" and "high cabal" concepts.  For me, the true "secret team" concept is the best takeaway from Prouty: CIA officers holding military rank and sensitive positions, and also embedded in the worlds of corporate business, including journalism, to accomplish intelligence and military needs.  This is important to the JFKA social climate, and also to efforts such as Operation Mockingbird and its present-day descendants. 

The concept expands into the current culture in which intelligence (not just CIA), military and law enforcement officers, as well as politicians and appointed office holders, move from the world of government service into influential private sector positions, and back again.  We've developed a political and economic culture in which lobbyists are almost redundant, since a not-so-secret team of revolving-door players can achieve the aims of government and business almost openly, as lawmakers and the media accept the dropped barriers without comment.

We used to have a political-economic system with de facto checks and balances, but no more, thanks to advances made upon Prouty's "secret team" model.

This is from George Bush: An unauthorized Biography:

"Almost ten years ago [early 1980's], a reliable source shared with one of the authors an account of a meeting between Kennedy and MacArthur in which the veteran general warned the young President that there were elements inside the U.S. government who emphatically did not share his patriotic motives, and who were seeking to destroy his administration from within. MacArthur warned that the forces bent on destroying Kennedy were centered in the Wall Street financial community and its various tentacles in the intelligence community."

To me, the high cabal is the Wall Street financial elites

[Calvin Ye]

On 11/29/2020 at 4:21 PM, W. Niederhut said:

Paul,

      As I mentioned above, on this thread, I view the photos of Ed Lansdale and GHWB in Dealey Plaza as two small pieces of the larger jig-saw puzzle of JFK assassination evidence.  But they do, certainly, constitute important empirical evidence.

     Do they fit into the puzzle-- i.e., can they be integrated into a more comprehensive picture of the plot to kill JFK?  Apparently.

     As you point out, Joseph McBride's discovery of the Hoover-Bush memo of 11/29/63 is critical when it comes to placing GHWB in the CIA matrix.  We also know that GHWB's father, Prescott, hated JFK, and once remarked that he "would never forgive" JFK for firing his friend Allen Dulles.

     Additional factoids.  GHWB (and Barbara) gave conflicting, anomalous accounts of where they were, and when, on 11/22/63.  We know GHWB was in Dallas that morning.  And we know that GHWB made a strange phone call to the FBI shortly after the murder, which has the hallmarks of establishing an alibi.

     We also know that Lansdale was Allen Dulles's favorite CIA black ops expert.

This is from Bill Tyree's affidavit

[Calvin Ye]

On 11/29/2020 at 11:31 AM, Paul Brancato said:

The thing about the photo of Bush at Dealey Plaza it that it becomes the main focus of anyone thinking Bush might have been involved. It’s a distraction. It doesn’t matter if the pic is of him or someone else, unless there is other evidence of his involvement. 
Ron - the allegation that you posted is only that. I’ve never found corroboration. Yet I find it interesting indeed. But if that allegation, made by the Castroite Cuban Fabian Escalante, became a similar focus like the photo, we would have the same problem because it is not provable. Many of you know of my focus on Jack Crichton, Bush’s partner in crime in Escalante’s allegation. A similar problem arises with Crichton, which is the difficulty in proving the existence of his 488th Military Intelligence Detachment, something he repeated often, carried by news articles about him. 
of all the evidence against Bush, I think Hoover’s memo to George Bush of the CIA, discovered by Joseph McBride, is the most incriminating. No one seems to wonder why Hoover would write such a memo. Perhaps someone can answer this question: are there other instances of Hoover identifying the recipient of a memo as a CIA agent? If not, which is what I suspect, then why did he do so in this case? 

This is from Bill Tyree's affidavit

[Calvin Ye]

On 11/30/2020 at 7:53 AM, W. Niederhut said:

Thanks for posting this, Robert.

It's, definitely, "Mr. George Bush of the CIA," in Dealey Plaza.

Next, we can all "explore the resistance" to acknowledging GHWB's presence in Dealey Plaza. 

IMO, it has to do with cognitive dissonance.

No one wants to believe that a POTUS was involved in the murder of another POTUS.

People also refuses to believe another POTUS was secretly in the murder of a POTUS

[David Andrews]

8 hours ago, Calvin Ye said:

To me, the high cabal is the Wall Street financial elites

But who does they dirty work if not some Lansdale type?

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by David Andrews

[Calvin Ye]

1 minute ago, David Andrews said:

But who does they dirty work if not some Lansdale type?

CIA and the US military leaders

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, David Andrews said:

But who does they dirty work if not some Lansdale type?

 

Thanks David.  I hadn't heard either one of those in a long while.

From the Philippines to Vietnam, to (?) Dealy Plaza (?) Lansdale was doing dirty work for Dulles.  Didn't Dulles get him promoted to Major General?  Not to be confused with Major Major.  

[Paul Brancato]

Other possible avenues for hiring dirty work exist. William Harvey/QJWIN, and Lemnitzer/Gladio.

the connection between DeMohrenschildt and George Bush of the CIA is undeniable. Can someone point me to source documents showing Ruth Paine inquiring with the Navy about Oswald ? I’m unfamiliar with Carone. In any case, this has nothing to do with Bush or DeM. And if Dulles was asking Paine to inquire about Oswald it had nothing to do with Assassinations. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Paul Brancato