Lone Gunman podcast: L. Fletcher Prouty a xxxx?

[Steve Roe]

On 5/3/2021 at 1:18 PM, Calvin Ye said:

People also refuses to believe another POTUS was secretly in the murder of a POTUS

George Bush was not in Dealey Plaza. This nutty theory has been debunked years ago. He was in Tyler at a Kiwanis Club luncheon at the Blackstone Hotel. Bush had ZERO involvement in the assassination. You can thank Uber-Story tellers Fletcher Prouty and Russ Baker for this nonsense.

[James DiEugenio]

The way I feel about this is sort of the way I felt about Lifton's attacks on Weisberg. And the fact that no one ever talked to Harold about the whole Thornley issue until I did.  All that was included in my two part article on Thornley.

Well, here no one talked to Fletcher or Len Osanic.  So I did.  And its in my three part review of Litwin's piece of crud book on Garrison.  One aspect of being a reporter or journalist is you talk to the other side even if you don't like them or are predisposed against them.  Here is the other side:

"Taking his lead from the late Robert Sam Anson’s hoary article for Esquire, printed back in November of 1991, Litwin goes ahead and assails Fletcher Prouty on just about every score that Anson, and later Edward Epstein, could think of. Including the ridiculous accusation that Prouty did not know that Leonard Lewin’s The Report from Iron Mountain was meant as a satire. With the help of Len Osanic, I have addressed all of these goofy charges as made by Epstein. (Click here and go to the last section for details)

Prouty was involved in the drafting of the McNamara/Taylor report in Washington. This was the plan that Kennedy was going to use to justify his withdrawal from Vietnam. Prouty’s revelations about this are bolstered by Howard Jones’ book, Death of a Generation. Except Jones states that this was done before the trip to Saigon. Jones writes that the departing party received large binders of material as they boarded the plane, “including a draft of the report they were to write afterward.” (Jones, p. 370) That material included the conclusions they were to present the president, along with statistics. This is a key piece of information. (My thanks to Paul Jolliffe for pointing this out to me.) Needless to say, Litwin does not list any of the new books about the issue of Kennedy, Johnson and Vietnam—either in his bibliography or his references. This makes sense since they rely on new documents and new interviews to further the case originally made by Prouty, Newman and Stone.

Litwin also uses Fletcher’s interview with the ARRB against him. (Litwin, pp. 271-72) He could have easily called Len Osanic about this matter. Osanic is the web master of the best Prouty web site there is. He knew Fletcher as well as anyone. He visited him at his home in Alexandria, Virginia. When I asked him about the perceived problems the ARRB had with Prouty, he informed me of the full context. (Click here for details) Fletcher had been interviewed by both the Rockefeller Commission and the Church Committee. He was not happy with either experience. In his interview with the former, dated May 5, 1975, its odd that when Prouty started getting into matters dealing with the CIA, the interviewer wanted to go off the record. (See page four of the interview)

When Fletcher went in for his pre-interview with the House Select Committee, he was rather surprised. The reason being that George Joannides was there. And it appeared that he was actually taking part in the investigation. Prouty was one of the few people who instantly understood what this meant. He decided he was only going to give a brief statement and not do the interview.

Which brings us to the ARRB appearance that Litwin likes to use against the man. Prouty understood from the first couple of questions what the agenda was. So he decided to play along and give them what they wanted. He then called Len and informed him about it. Let us just discuss two issues. The first will be the whole trip to the South Pole as depicted in the film JFK. The unusual aspect about that was that Ed Lansdale was the officer who sent in his name for the mission. Lansdale was not his commanding officer. That was Victor Krulak. So why did Lansdale offer his name?

The other point is about the lack of military protection for Kennedy in Dallas. When asked by the ARRB if he had any notes on this, Fletcher said he did not. (See page 6 of the ARRB summary of the interview) Fletcher did have the notes of the call. And Len Osanic has seen them. Prouty’s informant said that, as late as January 1964, when he reported to the 316th Field Detachment—which was very close to the 112th Military Intelligence Group in San Antonio—there were still arguments between the two commanders about why they were not detached to go to Dallas. (ARRB interview with Col. Bill McKinney 5/2/97) Especially since some of the officers there had been trained in presidential protection at Fort Holabird. McKinney called Prouty about it since Fletcher would likely have arranged the air transportation for the unit. After all, it’s a four hour drive from San Antonio to Dallas. Also, after the film was released, a daughter of one of the high level officers called Len. She told him that, over the assassination weekend, there was an argument at her home over this particular issue. Namely why there was no military protection forwarded to Dallas. (Interview with Osanic, 2/6/2021)

Fletcher Prouty was vividly played by Donald Sutherland in the film JFK. During that walk he took from the Lincoln Memorial with Costner/Garrison, for the first time, the American public was given loads of information about what the CIA was doing for decades in the name of spreading democracy abroad. It turned out they were not spreading democracy. They were actually overthrowing democratically elected republics e.g. Iran, Guatemala and Congo. And in the case of Congo, planning assassination plots. This information was all communicated with exceptional cinematic skill. The Powers That Be did not like the fact that Fletcher-an inside the beltway officer-was partaking in such an exercise. And not only was he telling the public that he knew Kennedy was exiting Vietnam, but he had worked on the plans. All one has to know about how valuable he was to the disclosure of the secret government is that James McCord despised him.

When Fletcher Prouty passed away, he was given full military honors. This included a band with a bugler playing Taps, a 21 gun salute, his body carried to chapel by caisson, and the flag folded up into a triangle and given to his widow. Like Kennedy, he was buried at Arlington. We are all lucky that a man with that standing gave so many insights to the general public. Because no one else at that level ever did."

Edited May 4, 2021 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

BTW, in the above excerpt, the takeaway is that McCord despised Prouty.  At almost every opportunity McCord had he did all he could to trash him.

One would figure that from Helms' Zap Man.

[David Andrews]

Well. I was citing Lansdale as an interface of CIA and military.

[Calvin Ye]

1 hour ago, Steve Roe said:

George Bush was not in Dealey Plaza. This nutty theory has been debunked years ago. He was in Tyler at a Kiwanis Club luncheon at the Blackstone Hotel. Bush had ZERO involvement in the assassination. You can thank Uber-Story tellers Fletcher Prouty and Russ Baker for this nonsense.

I  was referring to Lyndon Johnson's involvement in the crime

[Calvin Ye]

2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Other possible avenues for hiring dirty work exist. William Harvey/QJWIN, and Lemnitzer/Gladio.

the connection between DeMohrenschildt and George Bush of the CIA is undeniable. Can someone point me to source documents showing Ruth Paine inquiring with the Navy about Oswald ? I’m unfamiliar with Carone. In any case, this has nothing to do with Bush or DeM. And if Dulles was asking Paine to inquire about Oswald it had nothing to do with Assassinations. 

Carone was a man who has ties to CIA, mafia, military and NYPD

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

George Bush was not in Dealey Plaza. This nutty theory has been debunked years ago. He was in Tyler at a Kiwanis Club luncheon at the Blackstone Hotel. Bush had ZERO involvement in the assassination. You can thank Uber-Story tellers Fletcher Prouty and Russ Baker for this nonsense.

Nonsense.  This alleged "debunking" has been discussed at length on this very thread.

Go back and re-read the thread, perhaps more slowly, to help with any reading comprehension issues.

[Paul Brancato]

5 hours ago, Calvin Ye said:

I  was referring to Lyndon Johnson's involvement in the crime

 

4 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Nonsense.  This alleged "debunking" has been discussed at length on this very thread.

Go back and re-read the thread, perhaps more slowly, to help with any reading comprehension issues.

That’s exactly it. You see how one conflates Bush at Dealey Plaza with Bush being part of the assassination plot. By putting his presence there front and center one creates an easy target, an avenue with which to dismiss the many other cogent facts pointing at George Bush. 

[Paul Brancato]

4 hours ago, Calvin Ye said:

Carone was a man who has ties to CIA, mafia, military and NYPD

Carone’s info is second hand. Isnt it someone else’s deposition? And what was his first name? I want to look him up. 

[Calvin Ye]

21 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Carone’s info is second hand. Isnt it someone else’s deposition? And what was his first name? I want to look him up. 

http://cryptome.org/2014/11/armadeus.pdf

His full name is Al Carone

Edited May 5, 2021 by Calvin Ye

[Joseph McBride]

Paul Brancato puts it well. The alleged photo of "Bush" (someone else) in

DP is a red herring used to take attention away from all

the other evidence about Bush and his actual activities on

November 21-22 and earlier.

[W. Niederhut]

8 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Paul Brancato puts it well. The alleged photo of "Bush" (someone else) in

DP is a red herring used to take attention away from all

the other evidence about Bush and his actual activities on

November 21-22 and earlier.

Well, I beg to differ with you and David Von Pein on this one, per the lengthy discussion of the subject (above) on this thread, (and the related discussions about the apparent photo of Phillips Andover Academy senior George W. Bush near Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63.)

Calling the photo a "red herring" begs the question rather than answering it.

As an example, look at GHWB's posture and right hand in the photo below.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ntkR7tFLrPY/UdWYp8hQ8CI/AAAAAAAAvDc/JQ6gpJyVYpg/s358/Photo-Posted-On-The-Internet-By-A-Conspiracy-Kook.jpg

Edited May 5, 2021 by W. Niederhut

[Joseph McBride]

Quite obviously not G. H. W. Bush.

[Paul Brancato]

15 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Paul Brancato puts it well. The alleged photo of "Bush" (someone else) in

DP is a red herring used to take attention away from all

the other evidence about Bush and his actual activities on

November 21-22 and earlier.

Thank you. William, whose contributions are good and with whom I agree so often, doesn’t seem to get that point. I welcome an in depth discussion about Bush and his family. Focus on whether he was in DP for what reason? If he was we have a suspect? If he wasn’t we don’t? It doesn’t matter if it was him or not him. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Paul Brancato

[Paul Brancato]

18 hours ago, Calvin Ye said:

http://cryptome.org/2014/11/armadeus.pdf

His full name is Al Carone

I guess we can add Carone to the list of Army Colonels with possible ties to the assassination.