Death of Hubert Clark (one of the JFK casket bearers)

[David Lifton]

On 12/5/2020 at 3:55 AM, Joseph McBride said:

Why would the plotters have wanted a Dallas autopsy,

since it would have been performed by Dr. Earl Rose,

who did the exemplary autopsies on Tippit and Oswald?

Dr. Rose could not be controlled. He would have recorded evidence of

wounds caused by shots from different directions.

Joe,

You spell out your objections (and in doing so)  reveal the way you perceive the problem:

Repeating your objections:

Why would the plotters have wanted a Dallas autopsy,

since it would have been performed by Dr. Earl Rose [?]

who did the exemplary autopsies on Tippit and Oswald?

Dr. Rose could not be controlled. He would have recorded evidence of

wounds caused by shots from different directions.

My response to your assertions:

“Why would the plotters have wanted a Dallas autopsy?”

RESPONSE:  Plotters would want a Dallas autopsy —and especially one performed by Dr. Rose, the Dallas Medical Examiner —because anything else would smack of something “unusual” —and perhaps, even, a coverup.

“Dr. Rose could not be controlled.”

DSL comment:  Agreed. And Dr. Rose was not in fact “controlled.”

“He (Dr. Rose) would have recorded evidence of wounds caused by shots from different directions.”

DSL Comment: Not necessarily. Only if the body was not medically altered prior to any such Dallas autopsy. (I hope you do realize that a Dallas autopsy would not necessarily have valid conclusions simply because it was performed in the right ZIP code.)

FINAL COMMENT:  Your problem. Joe (and IMHO):  You have not conceived of a situation in which Rose examined an altered body.  But that is your problem — a failure to understand the design of the original Dallas plan.  Full details to be spelled out in Final Charade.  (12/11/20; 1:20 PM PST)

 

[Joseph McBride]

I await your book for what you write about "the original Dallas plan" -- I hope we

see the book soon. Dr. Rose surely would have done the JFK autopsy right away, however.

Dr. Rose did the Tippit autopsy in midafternoon, but Kennedy would have taken precedence. That

would have the conspirators given only a short time to alter the body -- and where in

the hospital? I suspect the coffin was empty, the reason

for the nearly violent confrontation in the hallway; there was a tunnel

exit from Parkland out of sight of the media. I discuss this possibility in INTO THE NIGHTMARE. Have you considered that?

[Paul Jolliffe]

On 12/5/2020 at 2:18 PM, Joe Bauer said:

John Jay McCloy:

Following his service in Germany, he served as chairman of the Chase Manhattan Bank from 1953 to 1960 (but there was no "Chase Manhattan Bank" before 1955) , and as chairman of the Ford Foundation from 1958–65; he was also a trustee of the Rockefeller Foundation from 1946 to 1949, and then again from 1953 to 1958, before he took up the position at Ford.

Following the 1953 death of Chief Justice Fred M. Vinson, President Eisenhower considered appointing McCloy in his place, but he was viewed as too favourable to big business.^[28]

From 1954 to 1970, he was chairman of the prestigious Council on Foreign Relations in New York, to be succeeded by David Rockefeller, who had worked closely with him at the Chase Bank. McCloy had a long association with the Rockefeller family, going back to his early Harvard days when he taught the young Rockefeller brothers how to sail. He was also a member of the Draper Committee, formed in 1958 by Eisenhower.

 

 

John McCloy discusses his views in the Cabinet Room.

From 1966 to 1968, he was Honorary Chairman of the Paris-based Atlantic Institute.^[29]

In late 1967 McCloy was considered by US President Lyndon Johnson for the position of US Ambassador to the United Nations and was approached by Secretary of State Dean Rusk on this matter, however McCloy turned down the offer.^[30]

 

John McCloy (far left) and the Warren Commission present their report to President Johnson.

Warren Commission[edit]

McCloy was selected by President Lyndon Johnson to serve on the Warren Commission in late November 1963. Notably, he was initially skeptical of the lone gunman theory, but a trip to Dallas with CIA veteran Allen Dulles, an old friend also serving on the Commission, convinced him of the case against Oswald. To avoid a minority dissenting report, McCloy brokered the final consensus and the crucial wording of the primary conclusion of the final report. He stated that any possible evidence of a conspiracy was "beyond the reach" of all of America's investigatory agencies, principally the FBI and the CIA as well as the Commission itself.^[31] In a 1975 interview with Eric Sevareid of CBS, McCloy stated, "I never saw a case that I thought was more completely proven than... the assassination."^[32]

He described writings that propagated assassination conspiracies theories as "just nonsense."^[32]

Joe,

It's long been recognized that John J. McCloy was the nsider's insider on the Warren Commission. Donald Gibson, in his outstanding book "The Kennedy Assassination Cover-up" argued that the Warren Commission should more properly have been called the McCloy/Dulles commission because they controlled proceedings. 

A great example was Dulles and McCloy's ability to override Earl Warren and his choice for general counsel for the commission. Warren wanted his longtime associate and friend, Warren Olney III from California, but Dulles and McCloy wanted J. Lee Rankin.

Guess who won.

https://www.justice.gov/criminal/history/assistant-attorneys-general/warren-olney

 

[Paul Jolliffe]

11 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

I await your book for what you write about "the original Dallas plan" -- I hope we

see the book soon. Dr. Rose surely would have done the JFK autopsy right away, however.

Dr. Rose did the Tippit autopsy in midafternoon, but Kennedy would have taken precedence. That

would have the conspirators given only a short time to alter the body -- and where in

the hospital? I suspect the coffin was empty, the reason

for the nearly violent confrontation in the hallway; there was a tunnel

exit from Parkland out of sight of the media. I discuss this possibility in INTO THE NIGHTMARE. Have you considered that?

Joseph,

I read your fine book some years ago. Thanks for all the incredible effort and information. Truly, your book is a "must read."

I wonder how much of the wound-alteration procedure was actually planned in advance. Was it, perhaps, a hasty, desperate improvisation by the conspirators, necessitated by the news that a very-much-alive "Oswald" had been arrested in Dallas?

I have long suspected (and argued) that the conspirators intended to frame not only "Oswald" but also, very possibly, Buell Wesley Frazier (and maybe unnamed others!) I've long wondered if the original plan was to frame "Oswald" as the ringleader of a group of disgruntled, unhinged Castro supporters, a couple of whom also fired at the president.

If that was the original plan, then that would have solved (from the conspirators viewpoint)  the problem of multiple shooters, as seen and heard by numerous witnesses. There was no need to alter the body if the original plan called for the framing of multiple shooters from different directions.

And, as I and many others have long suspected, if the original plan also called for "Oswald's" murder within minutes of the assassination, the frame would have been much easier. I am certain that the bizarre search by the two unnamed Dallas PD officers of the McWatters bus within a few minutes of the assassination was the first attempt to kill "Oswald" right then. Many, many people have argued that "Oswald" only survived arrest at the Texas Theater because he shouted "I am not resisting arrest" repeatedly, making the second attempt to murder him then impossible.

 Enormous pressure was put on Buell Frazier to "confess" late Friday night, and he was in real danger of being charged as an accessory (or maybe as an actual assassin!) until Will Fritz got the mysterious call from Washington around midnight on Friday, and all of the Dallas PD evidence was then turned over to the FBI. Without that call, Fritz might have eventually succeeded in browbeating/intimidating/beating Frazier into some kind of admission of complicity. (Not that I believe that Frazier was a part of anything, merely that the original plan called for his "confession" to support the case against the then dead "Oswald." Except that, of course, "Oswald" was not dead on Friday night.)

So, to sum up, there was no need to alter the body if the original plan called for framing multiple shooters from multiple directions. This would have accorded nicely with the real eye and earwitnesses who did indeed see and hear multiple shooters!

But framing accomplices required a dead ringleader - "Oswald." And he wasn't (yet) dead.

As of late Friday afternoon, there was a very real danger (to the conspirators) that "Oswald" might live to stand trial. So, the need to screw with the medical evidence to make it appear that all the damage was done by only one shooter. 

A living, breathing (talking!) "Oswald" was arrested a few minutes before 2 pm, Dallas time. At that moment, I believe President Kennedy's body was still at Parkland. 

Do you, Joseph McBride, or you, David Lifton, have any evidence that anyone at Parkland got a phone call saying that the suspect had been arrested while the president's body was still at the hospital?

Was the (shocking!) news that "Oswald" was alive the catalyst for the wound-alteration plan? For the conspirators on Friday afternoon, did a living "Oswald" mean they had to improvise a case that there was only one shooter?

 

 

[Joseph McBride]

Manchester's THE DEATH OF A PRESIDENT gives the time of "JFK removed from hospital after row" as 2:08 p.m. Dallas time (he assumes

Kennedy was in the coffin at that time). Oswald was arrested at about 1:52. Allegedly he was not identified as LHO

until they took him downtown to the police station by about 2:10, but as we know there are holes

in that story having to do with different pieces of identification. But the Dallas police knew who Oswald was before

the assassination, and my research found that Officers Tippit and Mentzel were sent to hunt him down

in Oak Cliff shortly after the assassination, which proves they were involved in the conspiracy. I don't

know for sure who may have told whom at Parkland about Oswald. DA Henry Wade, when I interviewed him,

took the responsibility for allowing Kennedy's coffin to be illegally removed from Parkland. JP Theron Ward

had called him during the fracas in the corridor when Dr. Earl Rose tried to uphold the law

that an autopsy had to be performed in Dallas. Wade joked to me that the worst that could have happened

from letting the body go was a hundred-dollar fine for violating Texas law. We know that was not the worst thing that happened. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Joseph McBride

[Joseph McBride]

Various times are given for when Kennedy arrived at Parkland, but I drove that

route many times at 70 mph (the time given for the limo ride) and always

arrived in four minutes. So 12:34. That means he was there for 94 minutes. They

stopped treating him about 12:50. They declared him dead at 1.  

[David Lifton]

On 12/11/2020 at 7:29 PM, Joseph McBride said:

I await your book for what you write about "the original Dallas plan" -- I hope we

see the book soon. Dr. Rose surely would have done the JFK autopsy right away, however.

Dr. Rose did the Tippit autopsy in midafternoon, but Kennedy would have taken precedence. That

would have the conspirators given only a short time to alter the body -- and where in

the hospital? I suspect the coffin was empty, the reason

for the nearly violent confrontation in the hallway; there was a tunnel

exit from Parkland out of sight of the media. I discuss this possibility in INTO THE NIGHTMARE. Have you considered that?

Joe, you write, regarding the exit of the Dallas coffin from Parkland: "I suspect the coffin was empty, the reason for the nearly violent confrontation in the [hospital] hallway. . "  and your commentary shows that your reconstruction of events is decidedly different from mine.

1. The coffin was not "empty" when it left Parkland.  There was no opportunity --at Parkland--to covertly remove the body from the Dallas coffin, after the nurses washed the body, and placed it in the coffin, after which Aubrey Rike --as he told me in a very emotional filmed interview -- "closed the lid."  I fail to understand why you would assert that the coffin "was empty" at that point in time, when there is no evidence to indicate that is so; whereas, contrarily, there is much evidence to indicate that the body was removed from the coffin after the coffin was placed aboard Air Force One (and before Jackie et all entered the aircraft).

2. Re the "violent confrontation in the hallway": the reason LBJ et al, and SS Agent Kellerman (who was carrying out his instructions) did not want the coffin opened, is not that the coffin was empty, but because it contained the body of JFK --the unaltered body of JFK--which plainly indicated he was shot from the front.  Specifically, JFK's body (as it existed in that coffin) contained the same wounds observed by Dr. Perry, and the other Dallas doctors. The two key observations made at Parkland were: (a) an entry at the front of the throat; and (b) an exit at the right rear of the head.  In other words, the Secret service agents forced their way out of Parkland Hospital with the Dallas coffin, not because the coffin was empty; but because it contained the unaltered body -- I repeat, the Unaltered body -- of JFK, with the same wounds observed by the Dalls doctors when they first saw the body, after its arrival at Prlnd Hospital at about 12:35 - 12:38 pm.  

3. Why complicate matters by positing a sequence that clearly is not supported by any evidence in the record?  (Also: If, as you apparently postulate, the Dallas coffin was empty at the time the coffin left Parkland, then that requires an explanation for how JFK's body got to Air Force One.  Have you got any explanation for how the body of JFK got to Air Force One?  The record --as we know it--indictes that the body was inside the coffin; and that, once there (i.e.,, once aboard AF-1)  it was then removed from the coffin and that it left via the rear starboard (half) door, and was then placed in the forward luggage area). See final two chapters of Best Evidence, plus postings I have made on the London Forum. (DSL, 12/13/20) 

Edited December 14, 2020 by David Lifton

[Joseph McBride]

Thanks, David -- I am glad to hear some of your thoughts from the book. But

if the body, as you argue, was unaltered in the coffin during the hallway confrontation, I am 

confused by what you first wrote above, implying that if Dr. Rose had done the autopsy, he would have

examined an altered body (and where and when would it have been altered?). Perhaps

I misread what you wrote. I gather from what you've written that you think the alteration

took place on Air Force One. Douglas Horne found witnesses to its taking place

at Bethesda.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Joseph McBride

[David Lifton]

On 12/13/2020 at 10:20 PM, Joseph McBride said:

Thanks, David -- I am glad to hear some of your thoughts from the book. But

if the body, as you argue, was unaltered in the coffin during the hallway confrontation, I am 

confused by what you first wrote above, implying that if Dr. Rose had done the autopsy, he would have

examined an altered body (and where and when would it have been altered?). Perhaps

I misread what you wrote. I gather from what you've written that you think the alteration

took place on Air Force One. Douglas Horne found witnesses to its taking place

at Bethesda.

What I wrote -- i.e., my answers --were precise and accurate.   Its your inferences and speculations that don't follow (or are unwarranted).  But I cannot fully address your (additional) questions at this juncture, or comment further on your speculations about my beliefs and conclusions. For that, you'll have to read the book.  FWIW:  I never agreed with Doug Horne's thesis that Humes altered the body, and told him so at the time.  In writing.  Not only did I disagree with him on this point -- I thought that conclusion was seriously incorrect, and did a major injustice to Commander Humes, the autopsy surgeon.  IMHO: blaming Humes was akin to blaming a bank teller for cashing a forged check, when the teller did so only reluctantly, and left a clear trail of evidence that the item was illegitimate. (DSL, 12/14/20 - 2:20 AM PST)

Edited December 15, 2020 by David Lifton

[Joseph McBride]

I look forward to reading the book eventually for further clarification and amplification

on your theories about this question. (BTW, I assume you mean "inferences and speculations" rather

than "inferences and peculations," since the latter is quite a different word and not applicable in this exchange. Please correct that in your post.)

Edited December 14, 2020 by Joseph McBride

[David Lifton]

On 12/14/2020 at 2:29 AM, David Lifton said:

MODIFIED AND EXPANDED (from my original post):  What I wrote -- i.e., my answers --were precise and accurate.   Its your inferences and speculations that don't follow (or are unwarranted).  But I cannot fully address your (additional) questions at this juncture, or comment further on your speculations about my beliefs and conclusions. For that, you'll have to read the book.  FWIW:  I never agreed with Doug Horne's thesis that Humes altered the body, and told him so--most directly and with considerable emphasis  at the time; and did so In writing.  Horne's response (and we had known each other (and worked together) for years, came down to this: "We'll simply have to 'agree to disagree'" . Furthermore: Not only did I disagree with him on this point -- I thought that his conclusion (that Humes altered the body) was seriously incorrect, and did a major injustice to Commander Humes, the autopsy surgeon.  Readers of Best Evidence should note two things: the "alteration" --in the area of JFK's head--was not delicate and precise (as if this was ordinary "neurosurgery") but involved major "smashing and bashing." (See Ch. 18 of B.E., for the ugly details). Furthermore, any such such violent act against President Kennedy's body would have been plainly evident to the numerous eyewitnesses to the Bethesda autopsy examination.  Bottom line: no such "smashing and bashing" occurred --i.e., certainly not in the Bethesda morgue.

Furthermore, the reader should recall what Humes told me when I spoke with him in November 1966, and confronted him with the evidence--mainly, the Sibert/O'Neill FBI report that there had been "surgery of the head area, namely, in the top of the skull."   Humes response, spoken with considerable vehemence was: "I'd like to know by whom it was done. . and when. . and where!".   Again, the reader should recall that I spoke with Humes (by phone) --twice, in early November 1966--and then actually met him in person at the time of the HSCA Hearings. From my standpoint, the notion that Humes altered the body --or engaged in such a brutal act of violence in the Bethesda morgue -- was not just wrong, but absurd; unjust and --again, IMHO--indefensible.    IMHO: blaming Humes was akin to blaming a bank teller for cashing a forged check, when the teller did so only reluctantly, and left a clear trail of evidence (as spelled out in B.E.) that the item (in this case (JFK's cadaver) was a medical forgery. DSL, 12/15/20 - 10:40 AM PST

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by David Lifton

[Paul Jolliffe]

16 hours ago, David Lifton said:

Joe, you write, regarding the exit of the Dallas coffin from Parkland: "I suspect the coffin was empty, the reason for the nearly violent confrontation in the [hospital] hallway. . "  and your commentary shows that your reconstruction of events is decidedly different from mine.

1. The coffin was not "empty" when it left Parkland.  There was no opportunity --at Parkland--to covertly remove the body from the Dallas coffin, after the nurses washed the body, and placed it in the coffin, after which Aubrey Rike --as he told me in a very emotional filmed interview -- "closed the lid."  I fail to understand why you would assert that the coffin "was empty" at that point in time, when there is no evidence to indicate that is so; whereas, contrarily, there is much evidence to indicate that the body was removed from the coffin after the coffin was placed aboard Air Force One (and before Jackie et all entered the aircraft).

2. Re the "violent confrontation in the hallway": the reason LBJ et al, and SS Agent Kellerman (who was carrying out his instructions) did not want the coffin opened, is not that the coffin was empty, but because it contained the body of JFK --the unaltered body of JFK--which plainly indicated he was shot from the front.  Specifically, JFK's body (as it existed in that coffin) contained the same wounds observed by Dr. Perry, and the other Dallas doctors. The two key observations made at Parkland were: (a) an entry at the front of the throat; and (b) an exit at the right rear of the head.  In other words, the Secret service agents forced their way out of Parkland Hospital with the Dallas coffin, not because the coffin was empty; but because it contained the unaltered body -- I repeat, the Unaltered body -- of JFK, with the same wounds observed by the Dalls doctors when they first saw the body, after its arrival at Prlnd Hospital at about 12:35 - 12:38 pm.  

3. Why complicate matters by positing a sequence that clearly is not supported by any evidence in the record?  (Also: If, as you apparently postulate, the Dallas coffin was empty at the time the coffin left Parkland, then that requires an explanation for how JFK's body got to Air Force One.  Have you got any explanation for how the body of JFK got to Air Force One?  The record --as we know it--indictes that the body was inside the coffin; and that, once there (i.e.,, once aboard AF-1)  it was then removed from the coffin and that it left via the rear starboard (half) door, and was then placed in the forward luggage area). See final two chapters of Best Evidence, plus postings I have made on the London Forum. (DSL, 12/13/20) 

David,

You and I agree that Aubrey Rike's statement proves that the casket with the president's unaltered body at Parkland remained sealed until it arrived at Air Force One. No body alterations occurred at Parkland.

However, you seem to be implying that you believe that a number of people, including SS Agent Roy Kellerman, knew of the need to hide evidence of frontal shots in advance of the assassination, and thus the need to remove (forcibly and quickly) the body from Dallas. 

Yet Kellerman's own testimony before the Warren Commission belies that (apparent) assumption:

"Mr. KELLERMAN. Entry into this man's head was right below that wound, right here.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the bottom of the hairline immediately to the right of the ear about the lower third of the ear?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. But it was in the hairline, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. In his hairline?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir."

 

Kellerman indicated here his belief that a bullet traveled from front to back through the president's skull. Such a stated belief meant that Kellerman could not have been aware of the plot to hide evidence of frontal shots.

My aim here is not to nitpick, but rather to suggest that the the body alteration may (MAY) have been a hasty improvisation, necessitated by an unforeseen development: "Oswald" was still very much alive on Friday afternoon.

It is unarguable that no belated, frantic, risky body-alteration plan would have been necessary if the plan originally called for the framing of multiple shooters from multiple directions. In that case, of course there were wounds of entry from the front - there was at least one frontal (fall-guy) shooter!

We know from WC Exhibit 3077 that Garland Slack's wife, Lucille, told the FBI agent Alfred Neeley that "Mr SLACK maintained that OSWALD was at the rifle range on November 17, 1963, and that he had been brought there by a man named "FRAZIER" from Irving, Texas". 

Our man "Oswald" was never at the Sports Drome Rifle Range, and we have no evidence Buell Wesley Frazier was ever there, either.

It has long been conceded that the rifle range incidents were part of a pre-assassination frame-up of "Oswald." Yet here we have clear evidence - from the WC's own files! - that the pre-assassination frame included Frazier too. And, since Frazier came within an inch on Friday night, 11/22/63 of being charged as an accomplice of "Oswald's".

Two fall guys. Not one.

Two fall guy shooters, from multiple directions.

No need for body-alteration, at least as long as the main scapegoat, "Oswald" was dead and unable to defend himself.

But he wasn't dead as of Friday afternoon, and the plotters were certainly desperate to pin it all on him. 

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/pdf/WH26_CE_3077.pdf

[Joseph McBride]

Thanks for the correction, David. I am an admirer of BEST EVIDENCE,

one of the paradigm changers for me in this case I've been studying

since it happened (and before).

[Ron Bulman]

On 12/13/2020 at 12:59 AM, Joseph McBride said:

Manchester's THE DEATH OF A PRESIDENT gives the time of "JFK removed from hospital after row" as 2:08 p.m. Dallas time (he assumes

Kennedy was in the coffin at that time). Oswald was arrested at about 1:52. Allegedly he was not identified as LHO

until they took him downtown to the police station by about 2:10, but as we know there are holes

in that story having to do with different pieces of identification. But the Dallas police knew who Oswald was before

the assassination, and my research found that Officers Tippit and Mentzel were sent to hunt him down

in Oak Cliff shortly after the assassination, which proves they were involved in the conspiracy. I don't

know for sure who may have told whom at Parkland about Oswald. DA Henry Wade, when I interviewed him,

took the responsibility for allowing Kennedy's coffin to be illegally removed from Parkland. JP Theron Ward

had called him during the fracas in the corridor when Dr. Earl Rose tried to uphold the law

that an autopsy had to be performed in Dallas. Wade joked to me that the worst that could have happened

from letting the body go was a hundred-dollar fine for violating Texas law. We know that was not the worst thing that happened. 

I've never known about JFK's body not leaving Parkland until 2:08,  that he was there for 90 minutes.  If they quit treatment at 12:50 and declared him dead at 1:00 that means he was there over an hour afterwards.  Plenty of time for nurses to clean the body, the ceremonial casket to arrive and his body to be placed in it, with time left over.  

Time to switch it to a shipping casket, take it down to the "basement" level on the elevator and out the "tunnel" to the back dock?  This is important to me as I've long doubted the switching being done on AF 1 at Love Field or in the air.  It would support the shipping casket/two caskets stories, arrival time discrepancies and body alteration at (possibly Walter Reed or) Bethesda, which did happen imho.  If so, the body was on the way while the SS argued with Earl Rose over the empty casket?  A realistic possibility?

Edited December 15, 2020 by Ron Bulman

[Paul Jolliffe]

10 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I've never known about JFK's body not leaving Parkland until 2:08,  that he was there for 90 minutes.  If they quit treatment at 12:50 and declared him dead at 1:00 that means he was there over an hour afterwards.  Plenty of time for nurses to clean the body, the ceremonial casket to arrive and his body to be placed in it, with time left over.  

Time to switch it to a shipping casket, take it down to the "basement" level on the elevator and out the "tunnel" to the back dock?  This is important to me as I've long doubted the switching being done on AF 1 at Love Field or in the air.  It would support the shipping casket/two caskets stories, arrival time discrepancies and body alteration at (possibly Walter Reed or) Bethesda, which did happen imho.  If so, the body was on the way while the SS argued with Earl Rose over the empty casket?  A realistic possibility?

Ron,

While that scenario seems a tempting possibility, it is contradicted by first-day witnesses everyone concedes had no reason to lie: Aubrey Rike and Dennis McGuire from the O'Neal Ambulance Service. These men claimed on Friday afternoon to have physically placed the president's body into the bronze ceremonial casket from the funeral home and then put that casket into the hearse, which they then drove to the airport.

https://youtu.be/YjhCbt5X4hA

http://www.kenrahn.com/Marsh/Jfk-conspiracy/rike.html

Note that in the second interview, Aubrey Rike specifically endorses Lifton's theory of body-alteration.

David Lifton has claimed that Rike told him that he, Rike, stayed with the casket from the moment it was closed until it was placed into the ambulance. Unless Rike was lying, a body-switch/alteration scenario at Parkland would seem to be impossible. 

Perhaps David Lifton could post the relevant audio portion of his interview with Rike?