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The wallet at the Tippit scene: a simpler solution?


Greg Doudna

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22 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:
  • why are officers looking at that wallet? (though I do not know where you get "10-20 minutes" time looking.)

Officers are looking at that wallet because it was "found" by someone.  Who gave it to Owens?   I still think Croy planted it - Owens was his chief.   

Why are Barrett and Jez backing up Croy's story?  Why are all three of them making it up, IMHO?   I think to cover up a blunder - other people at the Tippit crime scene may remember that there was an unexplained wallet there, and this is being played out to convince them there is an explanation and there is no need to go public.

I believe Callaway turned over the revolver no later than 1:30 - and that the wallet was reviewed on camera at 1:40 or later.

  • you note from your experience as an attorney that when officers ask citizens for identification today the usual practice is not to ask for or want to hold a wallet, which may have been the same practice or sensitivity then, so what explanation accounts for departure from usual procedure in examining someone's identification, seen in the WFAA-TV video?

Again, because the wallet was "found", not provided by Callaway or any other wallet owner.

  • whose identification was in the wallet and what happened to that wallet?

Croy said it wasn't Oswald - but couldn't remember the name.  More phoniness from him. 

Croy says there was no Oswald ID -- so why does he say the wallet belonged to Oswald?

Again, why are Croy, Barrett and Jez making up this story about Oswald's wallet being at the Tippit death scene?

  • what is the connection of that wallet with officer Tippit's pistol with which it was both seen and reported to have been in association? 

No one says there is a connection except for you - because you see both the wallet and the revolver in the same hand in the video - can you post the clip that shows that, and the Ken Holmes interview you have been raising?  Thanks for whatever you can do.

  • and above all, the $64,000 question, why is there no report or record made of that wallet in any of the contemporary police officer reports? 

That is the big question - I think it is because the wallet in the video and the wallet in evidence have many similar characteristics:  

1.  Both wallets have a leather flap that snaps over a photo section,

2.  Both wallets have a metal band fixed to its leading edge.  (Dale Myers, With Malice, p. 298) 

3.  Both wallets also have a zipper over the cash compartment.

And also...Croy could not produce his witness...so if it's true that he reported it at the time - that would have caused an enormous scandal.  

And, again, ...three law enforcement officers claim that they saw Oswald's wallet at the Tippit death scene.  Whether their claim is true or false - and at this point, I am leaning towards false - why are they making such a big statement that flies in the face of the record?

Again, I think it is to protect a blunder that occurred - I think there was an Oswald look-alike wallet at the Tippit death scene that caused some conversation and confusion, and they are trying to deal with it in a variety of ways to make sure the story goes back to bed. 

This is the same strategy Barrett used in both admitting and denying that he was at Dealey Plaza with Buddy Walthers at 12:39 pm on 11/22.  See Mark Oakes video about Barrett on youtube:

Bill the WFAA-TV news footage can be seen here, the full 2 mins 20 seconds Tippit news story from 11:15-13:35, with the wallet and Tippit revolver seen at 12:37-47, where the two items are (mistakenly) identified in the voiceover as being the gunman's pistol and Tippit's billfold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxbl8phBKSw 

On timing, Myers, With Malice, has the return of Callaway and Scoggins to the crime scene as shortly before 1:37 pm when officer Summers at the scene broadcast a description of the Tippit killer obtained from Callaway. In Myers' reconstruction police commanders Owens and Westbrook and crime lab Capt. Doughty arrived within 3 minutes and WFAA-TV cameraman Ron Reiland began filming Owens holding Tippit's pistol and Owens, Doughty, and Westbrook examining the wallet, at 1:40 (Myers, n. 1087 at p. 786). 

You say it is only me who is associating the Tippit revolver and the wallet. Not so! Not only are those two items, and only those two items, being held at the same time in the footage, but officer Croy told Myers in 2009, "I recovered Tippit's pistol and a billfold..." (p. 356). "Croy also claimed that Oswald had grabbed Tippit's pistol and tossed it as well. It was supposedly found with the billfold a short distance from the scene. Croy said he turned both over to accident investigator Howell W. Summers" (p. 356). 

It is hard for that to be any clearer that, although Croy (like Ron Reiland the news reporter) is confused as to where the items had come from, the two items arrived to the crime scene together, such that a reasonable default assumption might be that whatever was the explanation for how one arrived, could be the explanation for the arrival of the other. The two items are handed to Croy at the very time of arrival to the scene of the cab of Callaway and Scoggins, the same time the security vehicle which encountered the cab of Callaway and Scoggins away from the scene also returned to the scene.

Croy, who looked in the wallet, did not remember whose it was but was certain it was not Oswald's, "a point Croy was particularly adamant about" (pp. 356-57, interview with Myers 2009). 

Myers comments that it seems anomalous that "Croy never mentioned the discarded wallet in his 1964 testimony--a curious oversight given its apparent significance to the case" (p. 356). But, to differ with Myers--the wallet had no significance to the case. The "apparent significance to the case" of that wallet is an artifact of post-JFK assassination speculations building on speculations starting in 1996 with Hosty's book; the wallet had no actual relevance to the Tippit murder case. Therefore it is not a curious oversight to neglect to speak of something of no relevance.

Although you consider Barrett's credibility questionable, you nevertheless seem influenced by an underlying assumption that three law enforcement officers said it was Oswald's wallet. You ask: "Why are Barrett and Jez backing up Croy's story?" And, "Again, why are Croy, Barrett and Jez making up this story about Oswald's wallet being at the Tippit death scene?"  

But there never was a Croy story of that nature prior to Barrett, and it is not clear that there was such a story of Croy ever! During Croy's entire life (he died in 2012) there is not a single, solitary time when Croy claimed that wallet was Oswald's. When asked the question directly, Croy was adamant in insisting that was not the case. If you are going to believe Croy said the opposite of what he said, show the evidence. Give the document or interview or quotation where Croy said that. 

There is only this: the photo inscription produced by Rookstool, an advocate of the Oswald-identity of that wallet, two years after Croy's death: "first to find Oswald's wallet to[o]". I believe it is questionable whether Croy wrote that. I think there is a distinct possibility that was secondarily added to that photo next to Croy's signature, i.e. forged, another case analogous to the Roscoe White documents saga. I do not know that, it could be genuine, but it just is not clear. The photo inscription is undated. It was produced after Croy's death. It has no known corroboration in terms of a family member or friend confirming that Croy ever expressed that view when he was alive. It was produced in the context of heated debates and disputes over that wallet. The inscription visually appears to have been written by whoever wrote it, apart from and after the signature of Croy was written (the signature's authenticity not under question here). If that Croy inscription was corroborated or verified by other evidence that Croy held that view when he was alive, it would be a different matter. But so far as I am aware there is nothing else. If the inscription was written by Croy at the end of his life it would at most suggest someone had convinced him that that wallet long ago indeed was Oswald's, overriding what he had always himself thought.

On the Martha Moyers report of what Leonard Jez said in a public question-and-answer session at a 1999 conference, upon further reflection (this modifies what I wrote earlier) I no longer have objection to accepting that--that Leonard Jez may well have given that answer, that it was no misunderstanding and it means what it appears to mean. However Jez had speculated earlier that day that the wallet was Tippit's, and separately and earlier in an interview with Myers Jez expressed certainty that he remembered no wallet found at the Tippit crime scene. (Jez was present at the crime scene though I see no reference in Myers to Jez having been one of the officers in the WFAA footage examining the wallet.) But suppose Jez did not remember, then speculated the wallet was Tippit's in the morning, then by that evening after some intervening discussions with researchers, is now a convert to the Oswald-wallet idea. There is no information that Jez looked at the wallet or ever saw its identification himself, or knew of anyone at the time who did say it had Oswald identification. Jez's statement then becomes in genre simply one person's--in this case a police officer's--personal opinion. Jez was at a conference of JFK assassination researchers many of whom were convinced that wallet was either Oswald's or an Oswald forgery. So Jez thinks so too! So what? That's not evidence!

And both of the claims--the one of Jez saying that which may be true, and the one of Croy which is questionable and may or may not have been expressed by Croy--happened after Barrett, not before Barrett's story (via Hosty in 1996, and repeated by Barrett in many interviews). And in all likelihood both of the less-than-certain assertions, late in life, decades-later, each lacking corroboration as to authenticity of quotation although the Jez one sounds credible--were caused by the Barrett story. The Barrett story is where it all started--by all who suppose that wallet to be either Oswald's actual wallet or a wallet with forged Oswald identification in it. To this day Barrett's account remains the totality of actual evidence claimed to support the story. (That evidence claim being, not that Barrett ever saw anything looking like Oswald identification in the wallet, but rather a claim that Westbrook asked Barrett about Oswald/Oswald-alias names after looking at the wallet, from which Barrett reasoned Westbrook had gotten the names from the wallet.)

I earlier assumed that Barrett's testimony could be accurate as it stands, despite its flying in the face of the generally accepted timeline of the Dallas Police Department's obtaining knowledge of Oswald's Hidell alias. Myers judged Barrett's story of the Westbrook exchange mistaken in Barrett's memory of the timing when that exchange occurred (elsewhere than and later in time than the Tippit crime scene in Myers' reconstruction). You have argued that Barrett's testimony is not reliable. Now I too am joining in questioning whether Barrett's story concerning the conversation with Westbrook at the Tippit crime scene, is reliable. I reread Myers' discussion and saw this, which somehow I must have skipped over or missed in earlier reading:

"[William K.] Teigen, a former FBI agent, stated that in the course of the four years he was partnered with Barrett, they discussed the Tippit shooting, the assassination in general, and Barrett's work on the case. According to Teigen, Barrett recalled the events as a blur and at no time did he ever mention the police finding a wallet with identification in the name of Oswald or Hidell. Teigen believed that Barrett's later recollections were likely a combination of the blurred events he recalled, with a mix of other information implanted upon them."

Myers notes that Barrett is not known to have first spoken of the Oswald wallet at the Tippit scene until thirty years later, whether in his reports at the time or for thirty years later. In light of Oswald being front-and-center all those years in any discussion of the JFK assassination, Myers has a good point that that silence, so far as is known, all that time, calls the accuracy of the story in question. 

The Barrett story, which is not even a claim to have witnessed Oswald identification in the wallet, is the trunk of the tree of this whole thing. There is a curious phenomenon, well known in psychology, in which theories, once underway, retain momentum not only after their perceived evidential underpinnings which started them are gone, but after it is also openly and consciously acknowledged by believers that those points of underlying evidence are gone--the theory remains still believed anyway. I have observed this phenomenon in scholarship in my field. I have my own word for this phenomenon: "zombie theories in scholarship", theories whose argument for being correct has come to be self-citation of itself as what has always been understood.

The Dec 8, 1999 Ken Holmes, Jr. interview I am getting from Myers, With Malice, 2013 edition. From the Holmes Jr. interview Myers writes, "according to Kenneth M. Holmes, Sr., he took possession of Tippit's pistol after encountering Callaway and Scoggins on an Oak Cliff side street and turned it over to a Dallas police sergeant who he recognized after returning to the shooting scene ... Holmes and Wheless later responded to the call for officers to surround the Oak Cliff public library where the suspect was thought to be hiding. When the call came in that a suspect was hiding in the Texas Theater, Holmes and Wheless drove to the alley exit and were standing there when an officer opened the back door and said the suspect had been apprehended. Holmes walked around to the front of the theater and was photographed there as Oswald was brought out (See S.L. Reed photo #4.)" (With Malice, nn 557 and 560). Here is an article from 1999 by Ken Holmes, Jr., "The 1999 JFK Lancer Bus Tour".: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=4266&search=Kenneth_holmes#relPageId=34&tab=page.

 

Edited by Greg Doudna
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Good discussion, with good points made on all points of the compass.   

I have to say that the more I study the wallet evidence, the less I trust most of it.

I no longer believe any of the witnesses:  Croy, Barrett, or Jez.  Over the years, Barrett has given different names other than Hidell (such as O. H. Lee) - and has even said that he got the info from Westphal rather than Westbrook.   He knew Westbrook.   As the man who touted Barrett as the honest cop in the past - I now think he is a con artist.  Seth Kantor writes in his book that Burt Griffin of the WC wrote disparagingly about Croy to J. Lee Rankin on 4/2/64, a week after Croy's 3/26/64 WC testimony.

I don't believe the wallet was found on the ground near the police car at the Tippit shooting.  All the witnesses said there was no wallet found at the shooting scene.   (But Croy, Barrett and Jez say that it appeared in the minutes after the fact, and the video is the best evidence we have)

I don't believe it's Callaway's wallet, either.  That is pure conjecture. 

There are two points left for me - points I do believe.

One is that the wallet in the video and the wallet in evidence have many similar characteristics, but I think they are two different wallets:  

1.  Both wallets have a leather flap that snaps over a photo section,

2.  Both wallets have a metal band fixed to its leading edge.  (Dale Myers, With Malice, p. 298) 

3.  Both wallets also have a zipper over the cash compartment.

Take a look at this video for 30 seconds, starting at 16:45

The other is that Croy could not produce his witness who found the wallet at the crime scene., while Croy, Barrett and Jez all claim that they saw Oswald's wallet at the Tippit death scene.  Whether their claims are true or false - and at this point, I am leaning towards false - why are they making such a big statement that flies in the face of the record?   

Barrett called Bentley's claim that he found the Oswald wallet while searching him on the way to the station "hogwash".   How often does an FBI agent call a polygraph examiner like Bentley a xxxx?

Again, I think it is to protect a blunder that occurred - the Oswald look-alike wallet at the Tippit death scene was captured on video - that was a big deal - it caused conversation and confusion, and these law enforcement officers are trying to deal with it in a variety of ways to make sure the story goes back to bed. 

This is the same strategy Barrett used in both admitting and denying that he was at Dealey Plaza with Buddy Walthers at 12:39 pm on 11/22.  See Mark Oakes video about Barrett on youtube, attached earlier in this thread.

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I am wondering, if the DPD wanted to "enhance the evidence" against LHO, who they considered a cop-killer at the time.

Let me lead into it this way: When OJ Simpson was arrested, the LAPD said they found one glove at the murder scene and the matching glove at OJ's home.

Now, OJ probably did the crime, but perhaps the LAPD knew OJ would hire expensive lawyers, and they wanted to cement the case against OJ.  Really, the evidence was too perfect.  Would even OJ leave matching gloves at the crime scene and his own house? 

OK, back to Dallas. What is the timeline? The DPD arrest LHO in the Texas Theater, and lift the wallet from him. They take the wallet back to the Tippit crime scene, to cement the case against LHO. 

The WFAA-TV news footage, and the wallet, sure looks like LHO's wallet. I mean what are the chances of two random wallets so similar or identical in appearance? Given the circumstance, it sure looks like LHO's wallet. 

OK, so later, after planting the LHO wallet at the Tippit crime scene, but realizing the gravity of the situation, the DPD covered it up, and said there was no LHO wallet at the Tippit crime scene. 

Which brings up a point I have not heard too often. The DPD let Jack Ruby into HQ to shoot LHO, as they also wanted him dead. LHO had struck down a brother officer (from their point of view). So security was a bit lax....

 

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On 12/31/2020 at 3:59 AM, Bill Simpich said:

See pp. 27-38 (a series of FBI memos of 1967). It sure looks like Barrett took custody of the Paschall film and made a duplicate of it?  That's what Paschall's lawyer thought.  This film was important evidence of Dealey Plaza on 11/22.  Now Paschall only has a duplicate, and no longer has the original of the film.  Why?

Simply look at the film that Paschall had.  I call it the Giant Jackie film.  Her version shown on the internet and other places gives very little specific information about anything.  It has been edited and reduced by alterations to a non-factual piece of information.  She shows in her film, as Elsie Dorman did, parts of the motorcade route (Main and Houston) that the feds did not want shown.  Things like the alteration of films and photos concerning Houston Street and Main Street lead to the suspicion that some witnesses are correct when they say that shooting occurred on Main or Houston Street.

I didn't know that someone (Barrett) had possession of the film.  So, the notion that the film was locked away safely in a safe is bogus.  I always thought the FBI or some other fed agency black bagged the lawyer's safe to get the film and then alter it.

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/3/2021 at 12:38 AM, Bill Simpich said:

I wrote it in the first two sentences of my post:  "There were two similar-looking wallets.  Both wallets have a leather flap that snaps over the photo section, with a metal band fixed to its leading edge.  (Dale Myers, With Malice, p. 298)  Both wallets also have a zipper over the cash compartment."  

First off... quoting DALE MYERS as a source for anything is simply folly at best....  the man substantially and materially lied about most every aspect of the case to support his own version....  HOLMES SAID TO MYERS? really?

---

and it was not even HOLMES himself but his son talking to Myers... solid evidence greg

On 1/4/2021 at 12:23 PM, Greg Doudna said:

HOLMES, SR., as told by son Holmes, Jr. to Myers

I think you're both missing the point about the WALLETS... the only wallets(billfolds) in DPD evidence are the red one FROM IRVING

and a brown one FROM IRVING with a Marine group photo that does not appear in the list of wallet s or their contents...

There are no wallets or billfolds in evidence described as the wallet taken from Oswald when arrested.

484223068_EVIDENCECARDSTATING-BROWNBILLFOLDWITHMARINEPHOTOFOUNDINIRVING-NOARRESTWALLET.thumb.jpeg.bb052eaa18a518913b920eb4043159d3.jpeg

423166713_item114-BrownWalletwithMarineGroupPhoto.jpg.295009041cfbd23c2964b286a4dafa54.jpg

 

This is the photo which is not listed on any inventory of wallet contents, specifically CLEMMENTS or BOOKOUT CE1991/1990 and CE1986

1647508301_lho_groupisthisthewalletphoto.JPG.03fa6552a31045a6dc9bfa8ba87d557e.JPG

This is the wallet from "Oswald's home" shown below...

 1516920898_walletfromoswaldhomesaidtocontainitemssupposedlyfoundinarrestandwestbrookwallets.thumb.jpeg.eb4c17cc42dc8fd05a84d3bc56e129bb.jpeg

On 12/31/2020 at 3:59 AM, Bill Simpich said:

The other wallet was found by polygraph chief Paul Bentley while riding with Oswald from the Texas Theatre to the police station.

Where in evidence is THIS wallet Bill? Greg? The one supposedly containing 16 items including the 3 HIDELL related cards:

FPCC New Orleans card signed by "A.J. Hidell"
SSS card with his photo and obviously erased and retyped info &
the Marines cert of service with wildly wrong dates of service

Items taken from this wallet, described as "taken from wallet at Oswald's home" match all the items supposedly taken from the arrest wallet, see below

282639304_CE807808HIDELLvsGETTYimageofsamecardcopy.thumb.jpg.045af0006e39050956a643c4a46874f7.jpg

https://texashistory.unt.edu/search/?q=wallet&t=fulltext&fq=untl_collection%3AJFKDP

[Items from Wallet, Photograph #9]

DESCRIPTION:Evidence photographs of items found in Oswald's home. The items were taken from a wallet.
DATE: November 1963
CREATOR: Dallas (Tex.). Police Department.
PARTNER: Dallas Municipal Archives

You will notice below the LEE OSWALD Service card with the correct dates of service... inventoried as found in the arrest wallet, the physical billfold Fritz gives to Hosty on the 27th with the 16 pieces of cards and IDs... CE2003.  Which wallet this is is anyone's guess...

200168874_BillfoldandcontentsfrpomFritztoHostyonNov27th.jpg.fa7f526ebf94ba3ecf1d4bf9ac06b34d.jpg

 

1080868742_walletfromoswaldhomesaidtocontainitemssupposedlyfoundinarrestandwestbrookwallets-photoofitemsfromwallet.thumb.jpeg.3615a640521a1dcd0e84c38cf857b488.jpeg

 

The wallet in Irving seems to have been swapped for the arrest wallet... with the arrest wallet disappearing completely.

Then we have the wallet at the Tippit scene which you claim was CALLOWAY's and that Barrett is a xxxx.  No reports on HOLMES, no evidence he was actually there... just Dale Myers :rolleyes:

and Now let me add another into the mix:  The DPD photographed it but never mentioned it as evidence:

https://texashistory.unt.edu/search/?q=wallet&t=fulltext&fq=untl_collection%3AJFKDP - this links to the wallet, contents and this image. 

ALL placed in a wallet found at "Oswald's home"...

1475517518_yetanotherwallet-studded-foundatoswaldhome-beckleyorirvingidk.thumb.jpeg.a15138a0a3e4c264ac9c51b34e758447.jpeg

 

And then there is the $170 in a wallet in Irving... supposedly left for MARINA.... so I assume they believed it was hers and did not take the cash but only the wallet?..
and then not mention a portion of the contents anywhere?

DPD inventory lists shows $13 and 87 cents while the 2 FBI reports of CLEMENTS and BOOKOUT show conflicting content lists...

So Greg's deciding what people saw and heard based on Myers 3rd hand account doesn't strike me as very solid, and the changing of the wallet lists, and the physical evidence given and then returned to FBI (same stuff or not we don't know) AND the incontrovertible fact that there is NEVER mention of the arrest wallet and it's contents after the initial reports that there was an arrest wallet Bentley takes out while in the back seat and claims the name is LEE OSWALD... no HIDELL ID was seen or mentioned in that car.

 

2658-001.thumb.gif.fd9278eda980ff91efc6c0b0bb809b8d.gif

 

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Amazing the lengths people will travel to try and discredit Armstrong's work on WESTBROOK and CROY and the crooked cops surrounding them...

WESTBROOK (Capt of PERSONNEL):  Jacket, HIDELL ID, Arrests Oswald, has a second revolver in his office, appears to be railroading Oswald straight to patsy-land.

and CROY tells us he sees Ruby, recognizes him well before Oswald is brought out...and does nothing... Ruby is over by the railing at the bottom of the Main Str Ramp...

CROY at Tippit scene:

1558051722_KennethCroy-asargentinawhitehat.jpg.33b45a4ad928f4aa2eabaa1b6a928e14.jpg

 

CROY at assigned position

1769655387_croywhereassinged.jpg.c6149f2787089670d940350e9cc74e91.jpg

 

CROY AND RUBY (in the hat far right of screen). screen grabs from youtube video of Oswald murder...  John and I prove that RUBY did not come down that ramp but instead went thru a side door our man WESTBROOK later say was never checked or even considered a possibility... until the HSCA which concludes that side entrace was the most likely place RUBY entered... FWIW

364284934_croyrightbyRUBYjpg.jpg.68234e6adabd0c650bc8d05e7313adfd.jpg

 

WESTBROOK is a large key to understanding what happens to Oswald... he is then shipped off to Vietnam to work with the CIA after he leaves the DPD...

Yes, that's David Morales with the hat.  WESTBROOK at far right in dark Tshirt

I'd urge curious readers to Google WESTBROOK and see all that we've written about him and discovered about him...  

The "Captain of Personnel" who fails to even call the Tippits to tell them about what happened... but instead inserts himself at every critical moment of the day...

"aint gonna learn what you don't wanna know"

2013840520_WESTBROOKWITHMORALESINVIETNAM.thumb.jpg.19e166cea2f4aca84d4c649601514098.jpg

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12 hours ago, David Josephs said:

First off... quoting DALE MYERS as a source for anything is simply folly at best....  the man substantially and materially lied about most every aspect of the case to support his own version....  HOLMES SAID TO MYERS? really?

David is this really necessary? I do not see any indication Myers fabricated any of his interviews and it is irresponsible and shameful of you to just fling around a smear like that with no evidence. Any more than I see any indication Joseph McBride fabricated any of his interviews. Has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with the various interpretations or arguments of these authors.  

I believe Holmes, Jr. was active and well-known in the assassination research community in Dallas and gave bus tours or something, then died ca. 2012. If Myers had fabricated interviews of him, don't you think he would have said something or somebody else would have? Why not stick to making your arguments and forego the egregious character assassination. And saying someone is not to be cited on anything who has written the most authoritative and comprehensive book in existence on a certain topic is just cult-talk. 

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Yes Greg it is... this forum simply has no place for the work of Myers, Posner, Mack or Bugliosi...  and for you to honestly support the work of dishonest men in an attempt to make factual points is just a shame.

Myers kept the deception he fostered upon the community and whoever else reading his drek for as long as possible...  he's been exposed for the charlatan he is.

I have no doubt you have a photo of the man hanging on your wall next to Bugliosi... and Gary Mack.

:up

You want to accept 3rd hand stories as fact, fine... then don't bother challenging anything I post with 1st hand  corroborated evidence

K?

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Let me join Stuart in requesting a way to prove Westbrook is with Morales!    That would be a golden find.

I completely agree with John and David that Croy covered for Ruby and got him into position - and that information comes straight from the questioning conducted by one of the Warren Commission attorneys to Croy and others - you can find it for yourselves in Croy's testimony.

Dale Myers attacks me whenever he can - I welcome his insults - it shows how weak his argument really is and how insecure he is.

With that said, his book on Tippit has very well-researched material and I think it is important to cite his research when it stands up.

Let's all avoid character attacks and focus on this rich material.   We are doing good work here.

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Just now, Stu Wexler said:

David. Do you have confirmation that is Westbrook in the photo with Morales?  That does indeed look like Morales

Stu

I didn't look at the name written on his underwear... B)

What kind of confirmation would you like ? 

Other than the obvious set of circumstances placing him in Vietnam at the time, the two images of the man look the same to me...  and everywhere I have found reference to this image it has been understood and accepted THAT is Westbrook...  best I can do right now

westbrook-w-r.jpg.0a953062f314979afc93950ac30992e1.jpg.  Slightly older version of him 2013840520_WESTBROOKWITHMORALESINVIETNAM.thumb.jpg.19e166cea2f4aca84d4c649601514098.jpg

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9 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:

Let me join Stuart in requesting a way to prove Westbrook is with Morales!    That would be a golden find.

Me too for that matter...

How would/could you confirm that was Westbrook in any case Bill?   What would be a reasonable proof?

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A reasonable proof is hard in this situation without an identifying witness.

A way to begin would be to identify the circumstances in which the photograph came into your possession and to work backwards to try to obtain its provenance - the history of the custody of the photo.

I get the feeling this photo has been floating around the internet for awhile.  

I tried using google lens on it, and it took me to that other picture of Westbrook you posted on Tangodown63.com.  Impressive. 

Of course, it also took me to a picture of John Wayne!  LOL.

Another way is to analyze the photo - who else might be in it?

After that, the best way would be to approach Westbrook's family, friends, and colleagues.  Or Morales'?   

It would be a fair question.  It sure looks like both men are in the photo.  The interviewees might appreciate receiving a copy of the photo.

 

 

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