1970 Document

[Larry Hancock]

 

I suspect this document linked at the end of this post is the one that created the discussion that has previously appeared online; I have no idea if it is the exact one Jim mentioned, but if not its certainly related to it.  The document itself is courtesy of the research of my favorite guru, Malcolm Blunt.

It is an ONI document released to the JFK Records Collection from NCIS. The document was originally referred to the Navy/ONI from the FBI; it is not something that came out of Navy own historical files on Oswald or their own investigation of Oswald. 

It is a post-assassination document, not something that comes pre-assassination.  It is also typical of many FBI summary reports in that it combines  multiple pieces of information and if you are not familiar with that practice it’s easy to read things into it that are not there (been there, done that). Perhaps there were follow-on inquires to resolve the inferences and lack of dates specifications in the report. If so we don’t have them nor do we have the source interview by the FBI with the former Young Friends Movement source – which might clear up some important things like dates. Or not, depending on what questions the FBI interviewer asked.

Element One:  The FBI appears to have documented that Ruth Paine attended Summer Sessions at the University of Philadelphia in 1957 and studied Russian.

Element Two:  The individual contacting the FBI after the assassination described Ruth Paine as belonging to the Young Friends Movement of Philadelphia (the memo does not confirm that nor give a date as to when she belonged, the inference is that it would be in 1957).

The source stated that the Young Friends were interested in relaxing East-West tensions and in pursuit of that somehow contacted Lee Harvey Oswald as a pen-pal (the inference is that it was Ruth Paine who made the contact, but that is not directly stated).  The source also did not implicitly state the year in which the pen pal contact was made.

For reference in the summer of 1957 Oswald was just shipping out to his assignment in Japan and is unlikely to have been visible in Philadelphia for his interests in Russia.

Read it for yourself and see if you get more from it than I do, if nothing else it’s a lead to where the conversations about Ruth writing the Navy about Oswald might have started:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10ZOL5oTCu1ByVTxV90BNDUAxlxYwWnt3/view

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Larry Hancock

[Calvin Ye]

31 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

 

I suspect this document linked at the end of this post is the one that created the discussion that has previously appeared online; I have no idea if it is the exact one Jim mentioned, but if not its certainly related to it.  The document itself is courtesy of the research of my favorite guru, Malcolm Blunt.

It is an ONI document released to the JFK Records Collection from NCIS. The document was originally referred to the Navy/ONI from the FBI; it is not something that came out of Navy own historical files on Oswald or their own investigation of Oswald. 

It is a post-assassination document, not something that comes pre-assassination.  It is also typical of many FBI summary reports in that it combines  multiple pieces of information and if you are not familiar with that practice it’s easy to read things into it that are not there (been there, done that). Perhaps there were follow-on inquires to resolve the inferences and lack of dates specifications in the report. If so we don’t have them nor do we have the source interview by the FBI with the former Young Friends Movement source – which might clear up some important things like dates. Or not, depending on what questions the FBI interviewer asked.

Element One:  The FBI appears to have documented that Ruth Paine attended Summer Sessions at the University of Philadelphia in 1957 and studied Russian.

Element Two:  The individual contacting the FBI after the assassination described Ruth Paine as belonging to the Young Friends Movement of Philadelphia (the memo does not confirm that nor give a date as to when she belonged, the inference is that it would be in 1957).

The source stated that the Young Friends were interested in relaxing East-West tensions and in pursuit of that somehow contacted Lee Harvey Oswald as a pen-pal (the inference is that it was Ruth Paine who made the contact, but that is not directly stated).  The source also did not implicitly state the year in which the pen pal contact was made.

For reference in the summer of 1957 Oswald was just shipping out to his assignment in Japan and is unlikely to have been visible in Philadelphia for his interests in Russia.

Read it for yourself and see if you get more from it than I do, if nothing else it’s a lead to where the conversations about Ruth writing the Navy about Oswald might have started:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10ZOL5oTCu1ByVTxV90BNDUAxlxYwWnt3/view

 

Thanks for posting this link. Can I post the document on FB?

[Larry Hancock]

You should verify with the moderators that re-posting is allowed, not sure myself. If they approve it definitely needs to be cited to my post here and attributed to Malcolm Blunt and his research.

[John Kowalski]

Ruth Paine Papers on Marina are located below.  The document and related information may be there.

http://archives.tricolib.brynmawr.edu/resources/5109pain

 

 

[John Kowalski]

Found this document as well, it is from the Harold Weisberg archive regarding the same document. In 1993 David Perry was searching for the same document.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/P%20Disk/Perry%20Dave/Item%2017.pdf

The document also references an article that refers to the document  and to document 105-9987. This can be found on Mary Ferrell. You do not need a membership as you can do 3 searches for free.

I also recall an article about Paine and her membership in the Friends organization but I do not recall the title.

[Calvin Ye]

On 1/17/2021 at 3:49 PM, Larry Hancock said:

 

I suspect this document linked at the end of this post is the one that created the discussion that has previously appeared online; I have no idea if it is the exact one Jim mentioned, but if not its certainly related to it.  The document itself is courtesy of the research of my favorite guru, Malcolm Blunt.

It is an ONI document released to the JFK Records Collection from NCIS. The document was originally referred to the Navy/ONI from the FBI; it is not something that came out of Navy own historical files on Oswald or their own investigation of Oswald. 

It is a post-assassination document, not something that comes pre-assassination.  It is also typical of many FBI summary reports in that it combines  multiple pieces of information and if you are not familiar with that practice it’s easy to read things into it that are not there (been there, done that). Perhaps there were follow-on inquires to resolve the inferences and lack of dates specifications in the report. If so we don’t have them nor do we have the source interview by the FBI with the former Young Friends Movement source – which might clear up some important things like dates. Or not, depending on what questions the FBI interviewer asked.

Element One:  The FBI appears to have documented that Ruth Paine attended Summer Sessions at the University of Philadelphia in 1957 and studied Russian.

Element Two:  The individual contacting the FBI after the assassination described Ruth Paine as belonging to the Young Friends Movement of Philadelphia (the memo does not confirm that nor give a date as to when she belonged, the inference is that it would be in 1957).

The source stated that the Young Friends were interested in relaxing East-West tensions and in pursuit of that somehow contacted Lee Harvey Oswald as a pen-pal (the inference is that it was Ruth Paine who made the contact, but that is not directly stated).  The source also did not implicitly state the year in which the pen pal contact was made.

For reference in the summer of 1957 Oswald was just shipping out to his assignment in Japan and is unlikely to have been visible in Philadelphia for his interests in Russia.

Read it for yourself and see if you get more from it than I do, if nothing else it’s a lead to where the conversations about Ruth writing the Navy about Oswald might have started:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10ZOL5oTCu1ByVTxV90BNDUAxlxYwWnt3/view

 

Larry, how members of this forum have seen this document that you posted with the link?

[Larry Hancock]

I don't think so and I'm surprised there have been so few comments on what has been rumored for so long...this would seem to resolve years of rumor and speculation.   I assume folks are reading the link but its hard to tell that anyone but John has paid any attention to it?

[Calvin Ye]

7 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

I don't think so and I'm surprised there have been so few comments on what has been rumored for so long...this would seem to resolve years of rumor and speculation.   I assume folks are reading the link but its hard to tell that anyone but John has paid any attention to it?

Larry, what rumors and speculations have you heard before?

[Larry Hancock]

Nothing more than you mentioned...simply that there was something in the Navy files about Ruth Paine trying to contact Oswald long before he showed up in Dallas.  Its actually quite a good match to what shows up in this document although looking at the document suggests all sorts of problems with the claim...

[Calvin Ye]

14 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Nothing more than you mentioned...simply that there was something in the Navy files about Ruth Paine trying to contact Oswald long before he showed up in Dallas.  Its actually quite a good match to what shows up in this document although looking at the document suggests all sorts of problems with the claim...

Bill Tyree stated in his affidavit that Ruth Paine requesting information about Oswald's family is a clue that she is working for someone

[Larry Hancock]

Calvin, the document I provided certainly does not support Ruth requesting information about Oswald's family and at this point I think I've said all I have to say about this.....appears to me to be just one more diversion that keeps people going in circles. 

 

[Calvin Ye]

58 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Calvin, the document I provided certainly does not support Ruth requesting information about Oswald's family and at this point I think I've said all I have to say about this.....appears to me to be just one more diversion that keeps people going in circles. 

 

Oh okay. Why was Ruth Paine contacting Oswald's family in 1957? For what purpose?

[Larry Hancock]

So far I've seen nothing but the document I posted which would even suggest a contact between Ruth and Oswald's family - and it says nothing specific (or verified) about Ruth Pain contacting Oswald's family....t

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Larry Hancock

[Calvin Ye]

3 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

So far I've seen nothing but the document I posted which would even suggest a contact between Ruth and Oswald's family - and it says nothing specific (or verified) about Ruth Pain contacting Oswald's family....t

 

It make it very clear that there are some information out there that could explained the Navy Document

[Bill Simpich]

I believe I have found the origin document to this story - it is 124-10130-10284 (unredacted version).  Also see  Commission Document 212 (redacted version).

It is a 12/17/63 memo by SA John Wineberg, stating that a confidential informant informed his partner William Betts that an Edward Cronk allegedly said that LHO and his wife got in touch with Ruth through the pen pal program of the Young Friends Movement.

Specifically, it states that "on December 16, 1963, PH T-1 (whose name is redacted) advised SA William S. Betts, Edward Cronk, Executive Secretary of the Young Friends Movement of the Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends, 1515 Cherry Street, Philadelphia, PA, said he met Ruth Paine in Indiana in 1955...She and Cronk are both members of the Young Friends Movement...

"According to Cronk...he said Lee Oswald and his wife got in touch with Paine through the pen pal program of the Young Friends Movement.  He said Lee Oswald had never been to Philadelphia.

"Cronk said although he was personally acquainted with Ruth Paine, he did not know Oswald, nor the situation in Dallas relative to the Oswald family and Mrs. Paine."

The follow-up that I see is an 12/22/63 memo from Dallas saying to re-interview Cronk in light of a 12/11/63 Hosty memo, pages 11-12.   That Hosty document says (on actual page 11 but written page  8) that the Paines met the Oswalds at Everett Glover's Dallas home in the spring of 1963.

Then I see an urgent memo from SAC, Philadelphia to Director, 12/24/63, discussing among many other things an interview directly with Cronk by two other agents.  Cronk told the agents that he had "no information that Ruth Paine corresponded with Oswalds while they were in Russia."   

The direct interview with Cronk reflects this report, and adds that Cronk said that Paine was not active with the pen pal group after 1957.

Cronk seemingly disappears from the record at this point - no further follow up.

It looks like either PH T-1 made it up, or Cronk lied in his re-interview.   

It is at least possible that this story was disinformation designed to confuse the record.

To me, what remains the strangest link to LHO pre-1963 is the Paines' decision to move to Marguerite Oswald's neighborhood in Irving right before Oswald's departure from the military and return to Irving supposedly to take care of his mother.  Michael first assumed responsibility for the new home in June 1959, and they moved in during October 1959, during the same time that Oswald returned home to see his mother...before he abruptly left after 3 days and boarded a freighter in New Orleans, with his journey winding up in Moscow.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Bill Simpich