President Kennedy’s wounds-deluxe compilation

[Vince Palamara]

Parkland doctors: Paul Peters, Robert McClelland, Richard Dulany, Ronald Jones, Charles Carrico, Charles Crenshaw, Charles Baxter, Marion "Pepper" Jenkins, Robert Shaw + Nurse Audrey Bell + Aubrey Rike Bethesda: Jerrol Custer, Paul O’Connor, Floyd Reibe, FBI's Frank O'Neill Secret Service agents Clint Hill and Win Lawson Dallas Police officer James Chaney + reporter Bill Lord; Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry Dealey Plaza eyewitnesses Phil, Marilyn, and Linda Willis Warren Commissioner John Sherman Cooper 1988 was a banner year for some (25th anniversary) television/VHS (DVD) classics: KRON/JFK: An Unsolved Murder (also included in Robert Groden’s DVD), NOVA/ Who Shot President Kennedy, The Men Who Killed Kennedy (+ Jack Anderson's Who Murdered JFK? + NBC's JFK: That Day in November + Geraldo) Also: Crenshaw on ABC’s 20/20 April 1992 etc.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB1EuI3bmD0

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Vince Palamara

[Robin Unger]

Quote:

Dealey Plaza eyewitnesses Phil, Marilyn, and Rosemary Willis

Vince this should read:

Dealey Plaza eyewitnesses Phil, Marilyn, and Linda Willis

[Vince Palamara]

23 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

Quote:

Dealey Plaza eyewitnesses Phil, Marilyn, and Rosemary Willis

Vince this should read:

Dealey Plaza eyewitnesses Phil, Marilyn, and Linda Willis

THANKS.

[Steven Kossor]

David Lifton released a "Best Evidence" research video that presents the testimony of several of these witnesses and includes their observation of the arrival of the President's body at Bethesda in a "body bag" rather than wrapped in sheets as it was in Dallas.  That video is also available on YouTube.  He wanted to capture these peoples' testimony on film when his book Best Evidence had been published, so that the truthfulness of his accounts of their testimony could be verified.  As we review the record and the evidence, more details are emerging that call the authenticity (completeness) of the Zapruder film into question, and the contributors to this forum are at the forefront of understanding what really happened on 11/22/63.  I feel privileged to be able to watch and contribute from time to time.

[Pete Mellor]

On 1/16/2021 at 7:51 AM, Vince Palamara said:

Parkland doctors: Paul Peters, Robert McClelland, Richard Dulany, Ronald Jones, Charles Carrico, Charles Crenshaw, Charles Baxter, Marion "Pepper" Jenkins, Robert Shaw + Nurse Audrey Bell + Aubrey Rike Bethesda: Jerrol Custer, Paul O’Connor, Floyd Reibe, FBI's Frank O'Neill Secret Service agents Clint Hill and Win Lawson Dallas Police officer James Chaney + reporter Bill Lord; Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry Dealey Plaza eyewitnesses Phil, Marilyn, and Linda Willis Warren Commissioner John Sherman Cooper 1988 was a banner year for some (25th anniversary) television/VHS (DVD) classics: KRON/JFK: An Unsolved Murder (also included in Robert Groden’s DVD), NOVA/ Who Shot President Kennedy, The Men Who Killed Kennedy (+ Jack Anderson's Who Murdered JFK? + NBC's JFK: That Day in November + Geraldo) Also: Crenshaw on ABC’s 20/20 April 1992 etc.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB1EuI3bmD0

 

Vince, There is a very brief vid at the 15:00 minute mark of S.S. follow-up driver Sam Kinney.

You contacted and interviewed him back in '94.  Was he the agent that cleaned the blood & gore out of the pres. limo at Parkland?

In a recent publication. 'The Lone Star Speaks' an interview with Kinney's 'friend' Gary Loucks includes :-"He said he was the one who placed the bullet on the gurney in Parkland Hospital."  Kinney found the 'pristine bullet' lying in the President's limousine as he cleaned the interior.

This is a book full of 'hearsay' and unsubstantiated statements.  What are your thoughts?

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Pete Mellor

[Robin Unger]

Stoughton photo.

 

[Robin Unger]

Follow up car "Annotation"

[Vince Palamara]

10 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Vince, There is a very brief vid at the 15:00 minute mark of S.S. follow-up driver Sam Kinney.

You contacted and interviewed him back in '94.  Was he the agent that cleaned the blood & gore out of the pres. limo at Parkland?

In a recent publication. 'The Lone Star Speaks' an interview with Kinney's 'friend' Gary Loucks includes :-"He said he was the one who placed the bullet on the gurney in Parkland Hospital."  Kinney found the 'pristine bullet' lying in the President's limousine as he cleaned the interior.

This is a book full of 'hearsay' and unsubstantiated statements.  What are your thoughts?

 

Hello, Pete! Yes, that very brief clip is actually most of what aired from Sam's one and only television interview (Today show, NBC, 11/22/93). The other segment was merely about John Junior's salute.

Sam helped put the top on at Parkland with a Dallas police officer. The cleaning of the blood and gore appears to have been done (well, at least an attempt was made) by the other agent present, the infamous George W. Hickey, Jr. What's more, the bucket sitting there may or may not be related to any aborted attempt at cleaning, as it could have also been used for lubrication of the metal screws that fastened the metal strips for the bubble top.

As for Gary Loucks, I do not credit him. I was dubious from day one about this, as Sam (in three lengthy conversations from 1992-1994) never divulged this information.

[Pete Mellor]

On 1/19/2021 at 1:32 AM, Vince Palamara said:

Hello, Pete! Yes, that very brief clip is actually most of what aired from Sam's one and only television interview (Today show, NBC, 11/22/93). The other segment was merely about John Junior's salute.

Sam helped put the top on at Parkland with a Dallas police officer. The cleaning of the blood and gore appears to have been done (well, at least an attempt was made) by the other agent present, the infamous George W. Hickey, Jr. What's more, the bucket sitting there may or may not be related to any aborted attempt at cleaning, as it could have also been used for lubrication of the metal screws that fastened the metal strips for the bubble top.

As for Gary Loucks, I do not credit him. I was dubious from day one about this, as Sam (in three lengthy conversations from 1992-1994) never divulged this information.

Cheers Vince.  Re Gary Loucks... I concur.

D.P.U.K. held an annual Zoom meet last week & I put forward recommendation for you to speak at one of our forthcoming monthly Zoom seminars on your 'Honest Answers' publication out in March.  Recommendation was accepted, so someone should contact you soon on that.  Regards.

[Vince Palamara]

4 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Cheers Vince.  Re Gary Loucks... I concur.

D.P.U.K. held an annual Zoom meet last week & I put forward recommendation for you to speak at one of our forthcoming monthly Zoom seminars on your 'Honest Answers' publication out in March.  Recommendation was accepted, so someone should contact you soon on that.  Regards.

Thanks!

[Pat Speer]

On 1/18/2021 at 5:32 PM, Vince Palamara said:

Hello, Pete! Yes, that very brief clip is actually most of what aired from Sam's one and only television interview (Today show, NBC, 11/22/93). The other segment was merely about John Junior's salute.

Sam helped put the top on at Parkland with a Dallas police officer. The cleaning of the blood and gore appears to have been done (well, at least an attempt was made) by the other agent present, the infamous George W. Hickey, Jr. What's more, the bucket sitting there may or may not be related to any aborted attempt at cleaning, as it could have also been used for lubrication of the metal screws that fastened the metal strips for the bubble top.

As for Gary Loucks, I do not credit him. I was dubious from day one about this, as Sam (in three lengthy conversations from 1992-1994) never divulged this information.

If I'm not mistaken, Vince, Kinney never told you about his cleaning out the limo, either.

And yet... A Secret Service agent was observed cleaning out the limo... and news footage proves that the man with the bucket was...Kinney.   

So...how big a step is it, really, to believe Kinney took a bullet he found in the limo...and planted it on a stretcher?

Not much, I'm afraid. 

 

[Pete Mellor]

19 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

If I'm not mistaken, Vince, Kinney never told you about his cleaning out the limo, either.

And yet... A Secret Service agent was observed cleaning out the limo... and news footage proves that the man with the bucket was...Kinney.   

So...how big a step is it, really, to believe Kinney took a bullet he found in the limo...and planted it on a stretcher?

Not much, I'm afraid. 

 

Ok Pat, not much of a big step.  Kinney told Loucks he requested the bucket from a Parkland orderly and cleaned the rear seat area of the limo.

So, if he then found the pristine bullet....why wander into the hospital and drop this piece of ballistic evidence onto any old gurney?  He couldn't know whose gurney it was, nor could he know at that time of any agenda of three shots from behind from the TSBD or anyone known as Lee Harvey Oswald.

According to Loucks he was a believer in conspiracy & shots from in front, yet he saw what became of CE399 and kept schtum for fifty years!

Seems weird behaviour for a trained S.S. agent, and conveniently Loucks can only disclose this after Kinney's death.

One more mystery to the case that we may never know the truth of

[Pat Speer]

4 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Ok Pat, not much of a big step.  Kinney told Loucks he requested the bucket from a Parkland orderly and cleaned the rear seat area of the limo.

So, if he then found the pristine bullet....why wander into the hospital and drop this piece of ballistic evidence onto any old gurney?  He couldn't know whose gurney it was, nor could he know at that time of any agenda of three shots from behind from the TSBD or anyone known as Lee Harvey Oswald.

According to Loucks he was a believer in conspiracy & shots from in front, yet he saw what became of CE399 and kept schtum for fifty years!

Seems weird behaviour for a trained S.S. agent, and conveniently Loucks can only disclose this after Kinney's death.

One more mystery to the case that we may never know the truth of

I agree, Pete, that Kinney's behavior was not part of a plot. I suspect he realized upon his discovery of the bullet that his cleaning up of the limo even a little bit was problematic, and that he sought to avoid this by planting the bullet on what he assumed was Kennedy's stretcher.

 

[Greg Doudna]

2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

I agree, Pete, that Kinney's behavior was not part of a plot. I suspect he realized upon his discovery of the bullet that his cleaning up of the limo even a little bit was problematic, and that he sought to avoid this by planting the bullet on what he assumed was Kennedy's stretcher.

 

That makes sense Pat Speer. I have thought Kinney's behavior as told privately to his friend Loucks, also Kinney's public silence throughout his life about it, makes sense on the supposition that (a) Kinney found the bullet in the limousine, but (b) did not turn it in immediately for whatever reason (holding it to turn in later? keep it as a keepsake?), then it became a "hot potato" in Kinney's hands as he realizes if he does turn it in straight and above-board now he will be subjected to withering scrutiny over not doing it properly, making him look bad and/or blemishing his job record. That would be a motive to quietly walk in the emergency room and drop the bullet on some gurney, any gurney, where it might be discovered by others, but without Kinney being attached to it. Then to not tell of that publicly, or to Vince Palamaro writing books on the subject, would completely plausibly follow, since it was a hidden secret which would bring Kinney opprobrium if made public. Even Loucks out of respect for his friend waited until after Kinney's wife's death to disclose it as I recall. This supposes that Loucks is telling the truth and not inventing the story.

A prior question though is how would a bullet fired into JFK's back only go in ca. 2 inches or so (before falling back out in the limousine)? Any high-powered rifle bullet would penetrate further into JFKs body, and any underpowered shot would seem to have fallen short and not hit JFK's back in the first place. Do you have a possible explanation for this Pat?

[Vince Palamara]

On 1/22/2021 at 12:31 AM, Pat Speer said:

If I'm not mistaken, Vince, Kinney never told you about his cleaning out the limo, either.

And yet... A Secret Service agent was observed cleaning out the limo... and news footage proves that the man with the bucket was...Kinney.   

So...how big a step is it, really, to believe Kinney took a bullet he found in the limo...and planted it on a stretcher?

Not much, I'm afraid. 

 

Fair enough. Kinney was affable but something of an enigma. He believed Oswald was the lone shooter, yet he believed there was a conspiracy. He stated that the right rear of JFK's head was missing AND that he had the skull piece while on the C-130. He also stated that all three shots made their mark and that there was no missed shot. Kinney was also adamant that President Kennedy never ordered the agents off the limo AND that he (Sam) was solely responsible for the top's removal on 11/22/63.