Jamey Flanagan Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 If I recall correctly wasn't it the opinion of DSL in Best Evidence that a helicopter transported the body? Correct me if I'm wrong. There was news footage of a helicopter coming down low on the far side of AF1 and the thought was that at some point the body had been taken out of the casket and then placed on board the helicopter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Jamey Flanagan said: If I recall correctly wasn't it the opinion of DSL in Best Evidence that a helicopter transported the body? Correct me if I'm wrong. There was news footage of a helicopter coming down low on the far side of AF1 and the thought was that at some point the body had been taken out of the casket and then placed on board the helicopter. I'd be interested in the news footage of helicopter landing on the other side of AF1. I figured from what I've read it was already in place. I have read speculation the body went out the back side to a waiting chopper. At least one maybe two of the Bethesda autopsy corpsmen mentioned hearing one landing in the parking lot behind the morgue, per William Law's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamey Flanagan Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Well, as I recall the news footage didn't show a helicopter landing but you can hear the sound of helicopter on the news footage seeming to come from the far side of AF1. I can't remember for sure but you might can even possibly see part of it. Not sure about that though. It has been awhile. So you may be right about it being in place already. I remember talk of a pre-autopsy (where undoubtedly the surgery to the head from the Sibert and O'Neil report occurred, along with removal of all bullets and other alterations to the body) possibly being preformed at Walter Reed. The theory went that the helicopter brought the body to Walter Reed for alterations and then the helicopter took it to Bethesda. Some of those details may not be 100% correct as I'm going only on memory from some time ago. But I think that was pretty much the gist of it. And there was also the possibility raised of the body being on AF2 which under procedure leapfrogs AF1 in route and arrives before AF1 while traveling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 7 hours ago, David Lifton said: Quoting Steve Thomas: QUOTE ON: Yes, various people assert the fancy bronze casket was never out of view, even for a moment, after JFK's body was put in. And yet there seems to be multiple credible witnesses that JFK's body arrived at Bethesda in a steel-colored, government-issue ordinary casket. Lifton posits the body was switched while in flight. I have always wondered if AF1 carried a government-issued casket as part of regular supplies. After all, AF1 could be expected to cross the Pacific from time to time with a bunch of older men on board, and a death might occur. Having a casket on board might not be so strange. Still, JFK aides say they sat with the bronze casket through the flight. Something fishy happened. QUOTE OFF David, I think you may be quoting someone else here. I don't remember ever writing that. Could you tell me where and when I wrote that? I'm puzzled because I don't use the word "posits" as part of my normal vernacular. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lifton Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: David, I think you may be quoting someone else here. I don't remember ever writing that. Could you tell me where and when I wrote that? I'm puzzled because I don't use the word "posits" as part of my normal vernacular. Steve Thomas Sorry if I made an error (about the source). DSL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lifton Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 On 1/17/2021 at 12:53 PM, Lawrence Schnapf said: so explain to me where the opportunity was to do this? the coffin/body was under constant observation from Parkland until AF1 landed. even during LBJ's the swearing in, there was somebody with the coffin according to JFK's own staff. Sorry Lawrence. . .it will all be spelled out. DSL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schwartz Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) Navy Commander James Humes sworn testimony to the ARRB on Feb. 13th, 1996. Q. Could you describe the casket in just very general terms? A. Yes. It was a wooden casket with long Page 67 handles on both sides like you usually see for the use of pallbearers and so forth. One of the handles was broken. I forget which side it was on. But it was a handsome--the standard of those things. It was a good-looking casket. Did anyone, any person ever identified with being close to or actually carrying the casket Humes is referring to in his ARRB testimony above, ever mention seeing a broken handle on either side of it besides just him? Of course, most everyone who handled the casket ( dozens of people - SS in Dallas, later military personnel and lastly funeral home employees from Dallas to Bethesda to the funeral home) was to some degree probably in some state of extraordinary shock and hyper focused on just their ordered duty in touching the casket and one could imagine them not thinking about or remembering a broken handle. However Humes ( who never held the handles himself ) certainly noticed a broken one. And if one of the "long" wooden side handles was broken enough for hyper-responsibility focused Humes to notice this just by sight and not actually touching it, then it must have been a more than minor and a hard to see break. And one that a carrying person next to or right at the break would certainly have noticed, and that probably made his handling chore more difficult? Also, Humes never listing a JFK brain weight on his original autopsy report and when asked why saying he just doesn't know how or why? Please. JFK's brain removal, handling, measuring, assessed damaged, the surgical incision made before the autopsy, storing and then missing altogether and time lines for all these aspects of sworn testimony is so starkly contradictory with widely different takes by each person present during the JFK body arrival and autopsy... forces huge reasonable doubt about the final official JFK brain study findings. The entire JFK brain story is a solid smoking gun affair imo. Edited February 16, 2021 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hilliard Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 On 2/5/2021 at 11:07 PM, Ron Bulman said: Trouble is from what I remember of the official story is that Jackie was with his body from Parkland to Bethesda. Though I question this myself. Apologies if this was mentioned already..... When LBJ was sworn in...Jackie was present by his side in AF1. She did not wish to personally leave her presence beside her husband's casket but submitted to Johnson's wishes to attend. Why LBJ wanted or even insisted that she be there is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Price Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, Karl Hilliard said: Why LBJ wanted or even insisted that she be there is anyone's guess. For those of us who feel LBJ was possibly involved, possibly deeply up to and including the planning, he did this so the body could be taken. Am I 100% sure of this? No, but as you say, what other reason is there to demand that the dead Presidents wife be with him for a photo op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Richard Price said: For those of us who feel LBJ was possibly involved, possibly deeply up to and including the planning, he did this so the body could be taken. Am I 100% sure of this? No, but as you say, what other reason is there to demand that the dead Presidents wife be with him for a photo op. With blood on her dress and still in a state of shock at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Rice Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Karl Hilliard said: Why LBJ wanted or even insisted that she be there is anyone's guess. Personally, I don't really believe LBJ insisted. Under the circumstances, she could have said, "No" and she would have been left alone. Edited February 17, 2021 by Dan Rice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hilliard Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 There are other links probably------------------------------ Lyndon B. Johnson demanded to be sworn in alongside Jackie Kennedy Lyndon B. Johnson insisted that JFK’s wife Jackie Kennedy accompany him back to Washington hours after her husband's assassination on November 22, 1963. IrishCentral Staff @IrishCentral Nov 17, 2020 Jackie Kennedy stood beside Lyndon B. Johnson as he was inaugurated on Air Force One just hours after President John F. Kennedy's assassination. Lyndon B. Johnson insisted that JFK’s wife Jackie Kennedy accompany him back to Washington on Air Force One just hours after her husband was assassinated and that she stand beside him in the famous photograph where he was sworn in as president, a new book reveals. The famous photo of Mrs. Kennedy, with JFK’s blood still on her clothes standing dazed beside Johnson as he took the oath, only occurred after Johnson insisted she be present so that Kennedy supporters accept his legitimacy as president. MORE------- https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/lyndon-johnson-jackie-kennedy-inauguration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamey Flanagan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) Well, the most commonly accepted reason why he would want Jackie there is to ease the public's mind about the transition and the continuity of government. Just for appearances so to speak. Although I'm not sure if they were aware of it at the time, or if it was even suspected, but there were already whispers all over the country (and certainly at the local level in Texas where people knew how ruthless Johnson could be) that Johnson had something to do with the assassination. If not involved in the planning I think many people at least assumed he had foreknowledge and was so eager to be president that it was understood that the ensuing "investigation" would pretty much be a cut and dry Oswald did it lone nut scenario. It was all supposedly a public relations thing so it wouldn't appear that LBJ was seizing power ASAP, but instead the Kennedy administration, represented by Jackie in the photo were handing over the reigns. Wasn't the story floated by LBJ that he had talked on the phone with RFK, who insisted that he immediately assume the office of president? And later found out not to be true? All of this was done to put out the idea and the image that the Kennedy family had put their stamp on the Johnson administration and the transition. Anyway, I can see how this event could have been used to leave the casket unattended momentarily but I just don't think this could have neccesarily been planned as THE number one option. Like a previous commenter said, you could not be 100% ensured that Jackie would go along with it. In fact, in her state of mind, as a plotter I would assume she would refuse to leave the casket for the swearing in. So, if this was indeed how it happened that the body was taken then it was just a fortuitous circumstance that they took advantage of and not the plan all along in my opinion. Edited February 17, 2021 by Jamey Flanagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hilliard Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jamey Flanagan said: Well, the most commonly accepted reason why he would want Jackie there is to ease the public's mind about the transition and the continuity of government. Yes sir but it was also "commonly accepted" that Oswald did the deed..all by himself..for no apparent reason at all. The statement below [from Chapt 2 Warren Report 'the Assassination] is contradicted by several sources.... It was Johnson's super desire to get 'the hell out of Dodge'. Quote In the hospital, Johnson was surrounded by Secret Service agents, who encouraged him to return to Washington in case he too was targeted for assassination. Johnson wished to wait until he knew of Kennedy's condition; at 1:20 pm, he was told Kennedy was dead and left the hospital almost 20 minutes later.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_inauguration_of_Lyndon_B._Johnson#cite_note-Warren-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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