RFK Ambassador Hotel Video 4mins 28 secs, anyone recognise the face? Or faces?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

I'm familiar with some of that material on Morales...like the special credit cards...I heard that from his friend Reuben.  Just don't know about that remark on being in LA.....although I have to say he did have family in the area and did occasionally visit them, I do know that.   On his death, certainly Reuben thought it was suspicious - and also knew that Morales was concerned about his and his familie's security - over threats from people he had worked with during his career.

As to the photo imaging, it might be interesting for you to contact Morley and see if they did any image enhancement in their work....although I seem to recall they actually located the men who had been identified as CIA including Morales and verified that they were indeed at the Ambassador at the time.  You should be able to get in touch with Jeff...don't know if he is a member here or not.

I did write about Morales's career in Shadow Warfare, taking it beyond 1963 and I can tell you that his position in Laos, where he did move his family, was a very demanding one.....by 1968 he and the base were under seriously increasing military pressure.  

Hi Larry,

That sounds fair enough. I did read something about him in the Phoenix program or something like that. It was Ruben Carbajal. This has come from WIKI bu, it's printed in a book somewhere, roughly along these lines:

"Some researchers — among them Gaeton Fonzi, Larry Hancock, Noel Twyman, and John Simkin — believe that CIA operative David Morales was involved in the Kennedy assassination. Morales' friend, Ruben Carbajal, claimed that in 1973 Morales opened up about his involvement with the Bay of Pigs Invasion operation, and stated that "Kennedy had been responsible for him having to watch all the men he recruited and trained get wiped out." Carbajal claimed that Morales said, "Well, we took care of that SOB, didn't we?"^[73] Morales is alleged to have once told friends, "I was in Dallas when we got the son of a bitch, and I was in Los Angeles when we got the little bastard",^[73][74] presumably referring to the assassination of President Kennedy in Dallas, Texas and to the later assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy in Los Angeles, California on June 5, 1968.^[75] Morales is alleged to have expressed deep anger toward the Kennedys for what he saw as their betrayal during the Bay of Pigs Invasion.^[76]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theory

I have so many of the books mixed up, Antonio Veciana rings a bell as I think he became a bit of a dissenter,  or it may have been in the recent Lisa Pease book. 

Thanks for taking the time to reply. 

Chris

 

[Larry Hancock]

Well checking the end note in the Wiki article that quote is cited to Shane O'sullivan's book... which I don't have myself. I would have to believe that he cited a secondary source though because as far as I know only Fonzi, Dorff and myself would have talked to Ruben who I would believe would be the only viable source of a quote like that.  And the quote does appear to come from Reuben. 

I did talk to Fonzi and Dorff at length about Morales over the years but we never really discussed RFK, nor did I discuss RFK with Reuben.  

So I can't say Morales didn't say it....but if that last part about getting Bobby was added I would have thought Dorff or Fonzi would have elaborated on it to me.  Not much more I can say. 

In the interest of full disclosure Stu and I did spend a great deal of time on RFK and in the end our research ended up taking is in a much different direction, although of course we started out with all our usual suspects from Miami.  Which included long looks at Hemming and Hargraves who were in LA by then - with Hemming claiming to have been at Sirhan Sirhan's house in a police car the next day.

I'd have to go back and say anyone interested should reach out to Jeff for a full brief on what they did in regard to investigating the identification claims, that would be your best resource.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said:

Well checking the end note in the Wiki article that quote is cited to Shane O'sullivan's book... which I don't have myself. I would have to believe that he cited a secondary source though because as far as I know only Fonzi, Dorff and myself would have talked to Ruben who I would believe would be the only viable source of a quote like that.  And the quote does appear to come from Reuben. 

I did talk to Fonzi and Dorff at length about Morales over the years but we never really discussed RFK, nor did I discuss RFK with Reuben.  

So I can't say Morales didn't say it....but if that last part about getting Bobby was added I would have thought Dorff or Fonzi would have elaborated on it to me.  Not much more I can say. 

In the interest of full disclosure Stu and I did spend a great deal of time on RFK and in the end our research ended up taking is in a much different direction, although of course we started out with all our usual suspects from Miami.  Which included long looks at Hemming and Hargraves who were in LA by then - with Hemming claiming to have been at Sirhan Sirhan's house in a police car the next day.

I'd have to go back and say anyone interested should reach out to Jeff for a full brief on what they did in regard to investigating the identification claims, that would be your best resource.

Hi Larry,

I haven't read Shane's book either, so I am no sure. Perhaps it's in Lisa Pease's book "A lie too big to fail", it's he only dedicated RFK assassination book I have read (audiobook). I'll bring the thread back to life when I find out which book it was in, I seem to remember a fair bit about Morales, including someone who served with him telling a story of a confrontation in Vietnam, where he and Morales were very outnumbered and, Morales fronted them up with a show of temper and directness.  

Cheers

Chris

[Matt Allison]

The quote about RFK that is attributed to Morales by his friend Ruben Carbajal is in Gaeton Fonzi's book "The Last Investigation".

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

The quote about RFK that is attributed to Morales by his friend Ruben Carbajal is in Gaeton Fonzi's book "The Last Investigation".

Thank you Matt. 

@Larry Hancock

[David Andrews]

There's a black-and-white photo of Morales in Vietnam, showing greying hair and mustache.  Spartacus dates the photo at c. 1969  Morales in the Vietnam photo doesn't look like the Ambassador ballroom man.

Edited February 2, 2021 by David Andrews

[Ron Bulman]

21 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

The quote about RFK that is attributed to Morales by his friend Ruben Carbajal is in Gaeton Fonzi's book "The Last Investigation".

Matt I just reread the full ten pages referenced in the index, 380-390.  I didn't come across anything about RFK.  It does relate Walton, confirmed by Carbajal also hearing Morales say we got that sob about JFK. 

Still, I would not be surprised if Morales was helping orchestrate things from a distance, maybe an observable one, if evidence of such surfaces.  He was Wet to the core, but his tongue rambled when he drank heavily.

[Pete Mellor]

Apologies to Larry for resurrecting this thread 😁

Interesting Shane O'Sullivan vid 'RFK Must Die' which includes (approx 1-10minute mark) of Ambassador audience persons of interest.

RFK Must Die - The Assassination of Bobby Kennedy - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11sDQFLmPX8&feature=youtu.be

Worth watching anyway.

[David Andrews]

On 1/22/2021 at 11:05 AM, David Andrews said:

There's a black-and-white photo of Morales in Vietnam, showing greying hair and mustache.  Spartacus dates the photo at c. 1969  Morales in the Vietnam photo doesn't look like the Ambassador ballroom man.

Bumped because I found the photo of Morales c. 1969..

Edited February 2, 2021 by David Andrews

[Guest]

15 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Bumped because I found the photo of Morales c. 1969..

Hi David, 

That guy looks much older, in fact he looks like a retired bloke. David Sanchez Morales was born in August 1925, by June 4th/5th he was 42, almost 43. By 69 he was 43/44. 
Judging by this degraded image, does he look that age? I am almost 40 and he looks a decade or two older than me. However, people do age differently, some go grey over night through stress. I can see indications from clothing and ethnicities of some of the people that indicate it may be in Vietnam. How did Spartacus verify the age of the image?

Looking at the video in the best resolution I can find, I would concur the guys hair is black and looks younger (my impression based on very poor resolution and trying to make allowances for very bright conditions in this image and very dim conditions in the Ambassador at the rear of the room). 

I am not always looking for something machiavellian going on but, regarding these assassinations, no deception would surprise me. I am happy to be wrong, though. 

Cheers

Chris

P.S. 
Nice collection here, that one above seems to be the only one dated.
https://tangodown63.com/morales-david-sanchez/

Edited February 3, 2021 by Chris Barnard

[David Andrews]

5 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

That guy looks much older, in fact he looks like a retired bloke. David Sanchez Morales was born in August 1925, by June 4th/5th he was 42, almost 43. By 69 he was 43/44. 
Judging by this degraded image, does he look that age? I am almost 40 and he looks a decade or two older than me. However, people do age differently, some go grey over night through stress. I can see indications from clothing and ethnicities of some of the people that indicate it may be in Vietnam. How did Spartacus verify the age of the image?

Nice collection here, that one above seems to be the only one dated.
https://tangodown63.com/morales-david-sanchez/

The photo could be a little later than 1969, but not too much later, since Morales is already a "former consul" by 1972, on that picture page you link to.  Notice he hung on to his Kennedy-era skinny ties in the Nixon years.

I'd say it's hard drinking and an overloaded schedule that aged him.  He looks a bit "shrunken with age" in the Vietnam photo.

Thanks for the picture of Thomas Clines.  They can be hard to come by.

Edited February 3, 2021 by David Andrews

[Guest]

5 hours ago, David Andrews said:

The photo could be a little later than 1969, but not too much later, since Morales is already a "former consul" by 1972, on that picture page you link to.  Notice he hung on to his Kennedy-era skinny ties in the Nixon years.

I'd say it's hard drinking and an overloaded schedule that aged him.  He looks a bit "shrunken with age" in the Vietnam photo.

Thanks for the picture of Thomas Clines.  They can be hard to come by.

Must be drink, cigs, diet on the road and stressful work. I saw his DOB and thought; he looks knackered. Regarding the ties, as you get older you stop rinsing your salary on looking good. What are those bolo ties all about? Are they a rancher thing?