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Wim Dankbaar
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http://nixonrules.freeservers.com/dealyplazahunt.jpg

Sorry if this dissapoints you both, but I think these pictures show that the old tramp cannot be Hunt and the tall tramp is not Sturgis.

The tall tramp has a nick in his earshell line (it goes straight down with an indent in the bottom half of the curve) and Sturgis has a nice fluent curved earline down to the earlobe.

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/lois3.htm

Hunt has a rather big ear with a pronounced earlobe. The older tramp's ear is smaller with almost no earlobe that connects almost directly to the head.

Wim

http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/e...s/hunt/hunt.jpg

Edited by Wim Dankbaar
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Wim

You have entered evidence in the debate.

However, it does not support your usual position.

The third bum looks much more like Chauncey HOLT than he does look like the other candidates, HOWARD HUNT or GUS ABRAMS.

However, in these comparisons of the tall Tramp to Frank Sturgis and Charles Harrelson....

Sturgis, in 1960's era photographs, looks just as much like the Tramp as does Harrelson, in the 1960s era photographs.

Holt is strong and replaced Hunt, in my mind, as the 3rd tramp.

Harrelson, who has a lighter complexion, is still slightly ahead of Sturgis but both are plausible.

Frenchy? Anyone?

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Wim

You have entered evidence in the debate.

However, it does not support your usual position.

The third bum looks much more like Chauncey HOLT than he does look like the other candidates, HOWARD HUNT or GUS ABRAMS.

However, in these comparisons of the tall Tramp to Frank Sturgis and Charles Harrelson....

Sturgis, in 1960's era photographs, looks just as much like the Tramp as does Harrelson, in the 1960s era photographs.

Holt is strong and replaced Hunt, in my mind, as the 3rd tramp.

Harrelson, who has a lighter complexion, is still slightly ahead of Sturgis but both are plausible.

Frenchy? Anyone?

Probabilities:

Hunt...100%

Harrelson...100%

Sturgis and Holt...no way.

Frenchy...not Rodgers, definitely.

Jack <_<

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See what Jack thinks? This is great!

probabilities:

Charles Harrelson Strong 60%

Sturgis F. Plausible 40%

Holt C. Strong 80%

Hunt H. Plausible 20%

Abrams G. Not Credible

Wim

You have entered evidence in the debate.

However, it does not support your usual position.

The third bum looks....

Probabilities:

Hunt...100%

Harrelson...100%

Sturgis and Holt...no way.

Frenchy...not Rodgers, definitely.

Jack <_<

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If Hunt was the tramp, what did he do with his ears? I know that Hunt was in disguise, but reducing the size of one's ears seems more like magic.

Except for the ears, the tramp looks more like Hunt than Holt. I don't see the strong resemblance to Holt, except in a photo where Holt deliberately had his mouth hanging open to imitate the tramp. Holt was also younger-looking than the tramp, and would seem to have had no reason to disguise himself someway to look older as Hunt could have done.

The fact that two of the three tramps remarkably resemble the known cohorts Hunt and Sturgis in disguise would seem to make it statistically imperative that that's who they were. But again there's the ears. Are we to assume that these photos also were tampered with, to get rid of Hunt's ears?

On Gus Abrams, I have only seen a photo of him as a decrepit old man. Who is to say how closely the tramp resembles Abrams in 1963? A vintage photo please.

Ron

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Probabilities:

Hunt...100%

Harrelson...100%

Sturgis and Holt...no way.

Frenchy...not Rodgers, definitely.

Holt: 75%

Harrelson: 80%

Montoya: 40%

Edited by Tim Carroll
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The three C's of Certainty  :rolleyes:

Chauncey Holt 100%

Charles Harrelson 100%

Charles Rogers (aka Montoya) 100%

Wim

Wim,

We agree on the tramps. My percentages are the result of the fact that I am not as sure the sun will rise tomorrow as some are of their assassination theories.

Tim

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Tim,

My degrees of certainty are a little elevated because I know Holt's story a little more in depth.

Jack,

I didn't know you were behind Harrelson being the tall tramp. I thought you were behind Surgis. But since you think the old tramp is Hunt, are you aware of any known connection between Hunt and Harrelson?

By the way, there is one between Rogers and Harrelson. I forgot what it was exactly but they knew each other since Harrelson was a baby. John Geriarty may fill in that blank as he just read "the man on the grassy knoll". I have lost the book or I should ask Lois Gibson.

Wim

Edited by Wim Dankbaar
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The three C's of Certainty   :rolleyes:

Chauncey Holt 100%

Charles Harrelson 100%

Charles Rogers (aka Montoya) 100%

Wim

PS: Jack, why don't you give me your best profile shot of Hunt's right ear? 

Anyone else?

Before or after the cosmetic surgery?

Jack ;)

The proof is in the photos. By the way, the lobe

of the tramp right ear is blocked in the photo by the

black shoulder of the cop. So what is your point?

Jack ;)

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The three C's of Certainty   :rolleyes:

Chauncey Holt 100%

Charles Harrelson 100%

Charles Rogers (aka Montoya) 100%

Wim

PS: Jack, why don't you give me your best profile shot of Hunt's right ear? 

Anyone else?

Before or after the cosmetic surgery?

Jack ;)

The proof is in the photos. By the way, the lobe

of the tramp right ear is blocked in the photo by the

black shoulder of the cop. So what is your point?

Jack ;)

Why Harrelson is 100%.

Jack ;)

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If my memory is correct, I am thinking there were more then three so-called tramps arrested that day.

Perhaps, Abrams and Gedney were among the other ones, although not the three in the photos.

In fact, once Jack White (jokingly) asked if maybe they were having a hobo convention that weekend. That did make me chuckle anyway!

I cannot say for a certainty, who the three tramps are, but have always belived them to possibly be:

Hunt, Harrelson and Montoya.

I see no resemblance whatsoever in that older looking tramp to be Holt. However, in some of the photos I don't feel that he is actually as old as he appears to be. I mean, in some he looks younger then in other photos.

The idea that Rogers and Montoya are one and the same, I do no buy at all. There is no resemblance in the two whatsoever...contrary to other claims! I have no way to scan both of their photos though. I do think it possible that one or the other may have at some point, used each others name though. So of course, they would lead to some thoughts of them being the same person.

The only problem I have with the older tramp being Hunt is that I can't seem to justify in my own mind why he would be playimg this role. I do know that Hunt was a Master of Disguise, but then I also know that Chauncey Holt, was also. I do admit that I am not as closed-minded about which one it may have been, as I am in many other issues or claims.

Dixie

Edited by Dixie Dea
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If my memory is correct, I am thinking there were more then three so-called tramps arrested that day.  Perhaps, Abrams and Gedney were among the other ones, although not the three in the photos.  In fact, once Jack White (jokingly) asked if maybe they were having a hobo convention that weekend. That did make me chuckle anyway!  I cannot say for a certainty, who the three tramps are, but have always belived them to possibly be: 

Hunt, Harrelson and Montoya.  I see no resemblance whatsoever in that older looking tramp to be Holt. However, in some of the photos I don't feel that he is actually as old as he appears to be. I mean, in some he looks younger then in other photos.  The idea that Rogers and Montoya are one and the same, I do no buy at all. There is no resemblance in the two whatsoever...contrary to other claims! I have no way to scan both of their photos though. I do think it possible that one or the other may have at some point, used each others name though. So of course, they would lead to some thoughts of them being the same person.  The only problem I have with the older tramp being Hunt is that I can't seem to justify in my own mind why he would be playimg this role. I do know that Hunt was a Master of Disguise, but then I also know that Chauncey Holt, was also.

Dixie

Good post, Dixie! This recent photo of Harrelson added to my sense that he is the tall tramp:

Tim Carroll

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the book that wim mentions 'the man on the grassy knoll' by john craig and philip rogers states that rogers knew harrelson when he was a freshman in hunstville rooming at a house owned by the oliphants, harrelson was a toddler at the time, harrelson could not remember him as he was a toddler. now the way the book was written is very confusing as it sites sources but has no footnotes and in places is written as if it were a work of fiction. perhaps the authors gathered some information and made assumptions and made links that may not have existed.

also stated in the book is the fact that david ferrie and rogers used the same ice rink to make and receive phone calls.

i think i shall read this book again as i did not fully take it in last time, partly due to my bamboozlement in the manner it was written. nevertheless some good information.

if anybody has email contact details of either john craig or philip rogers could they please send me a private message as i would like to discus with them some of the research I have carried out on harrelson and compare notes etc.

all the best

john

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