CIA Chief Says Oswald Was Soviet Agent

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Yes, I agree. I conjecture Oswald figured out he was the patsy almost immediately, and did not get into a CIA-provided escape car.  Lacking any options, he took a bus, then taxi, and got his gun. 

Maybe not the bus part some speculate in spite of the Warren version.  Some even question him having a gun when arrested but the officers statements are there.  But after he changed clothes at least I believe he did get a ride to the Texas Theater.  Wasn't noticed walking or running through the neighborhoods I've ever read about.  There, as it turned out, there were Two Oswald's in the Texas Theater.

Two Oswalds in the Texas Theater - JFK Assassination Debate - The Education Forum (ipbhost.com)

Edited February 25, 2021 by Ron Bulman

[Paul Brancato]

On 2/23/2021 at 5:55 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

Thanks for your comment. 

Add on: If Oswald had been a loyal CIA asset for years, why frame him?  A bit risky no? What if Oswald (after the assassination) begins to explain who he is? 

And does this hold water: There was an elaborate CIA plot to assassinate the President, unfolding over months, involving many dozens of participants including higher-ups, but CIA asset Oswald, in the very center of the plot, in the TSBD, had no clue what was going on? 

Benjamin - I guess I don’t see Oswald as that much of a CIA insider. I’m more sure that he was expendable. If he did have a clue he didn’t live to tell the tale. 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Benjamin - I guess I don’t see Oswald as that much of a CIA insider. I’m more sure that he was expendable. If he did have a clue he didn’t live to tell the tale. 

Thanks for your comments.

"Expendable" perhaps, though I would ask if we have any other examples of the CIA setting up their own assets to be framed for murder, let alone murder of a state leader. Most intel-military organizations are very "tight." Protect your own first, is the code. 

And should Oswald live and "sing" afterwards....hell to pay!

Well, half-baked plans do get hatched, and no one said the CIA is perfect. But framing your own asset in a bona-fide murder plot of a President...well, stretches credulity. 

The JFKA has all the elements of something planned, but something gone awry....

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Maybe not the bus part some speculate in spite of the Warren version.  Some even question him having a gun when arrested but the officers statements are there.  But after he changed clothes at least I believe he did get a ride to the Texas Theater.  Wasn't noticed walking or running through the neighborhoods I've ever read about.  There, as it turned out, there were Two Oswald's in the Texas Theater.

Two Oswalds in the Texas Theater - JFK Assassination Debate - The Education Forum (ipbhost.com)

Ron--Thanks for your comments. 

Well, the whole Tippit murder-Texas Theater fandango is yet another jigsaw puzzle of misfitting pieces.  It is informative that the arresting officer said to LOH, "Shoot, the President will you?" So they thought they were hunting the President's killer, not Tippit's murderer. 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

On 2/24/2021 at 10:11 AM, Lawrence Schnapf said:

what a bunch of crap! just more disinformation. 

On the otherhand, Eladio del Valle  and Herminio Diaz Garcia were both in Dallas on 11/20. and yes- the strange co-incidence of Del Valle and Ferrie dying under strange circumstances on the same day............  

"On the otherhand, Eladio del Valle  and Herminio Diaz Garcia were both in Dallas on 11/20." 

Do you have source on this? And Nov. 20 but not 22? 

[Benjamin Cole]

20 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Benjamin Cole:

" I see David Phillips putting LOH up to a long-planned, false-flag but unsuccessful JFK assassination, and then a couple CIA assets, probably Cubans, piggybacking on the operation. Phillips wrote a near-confessional novel in this regard. "

BC, what book was that? When did Phillips write this? Could you give a brief summary?

"Well, speculation...if it were not for the horrendous gravity of the act, the JFKA would be the greatest detective novel ever written...."

It IS the greatest detective novel ever written!  When you combine all 2000 JFK assassination tomes together.

With half their physical weight being Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History" book alone!

 

 

 

 

 

According to Larry Hancock, the author of Someone Would Have Talked, just before his death Phillips told Kevin Walsh, an investigator with the House Select Committee on Assassinations: "My final take on the assassination is there was a conspiracy, likely including American intelligence officers." (Some books wrongly quote Phillips as saying: "My private opinion is that JFK was done in by a conspiracy, likely including rogue American intelligence people.")

David Atlee Phillips died of cancer on 7th July, 1988. He left behind an unpublished manuscript. The novel is about a CIA officer who lived in Mexico City. In the novel the character states: "I was one of those officers who handled Lee Harvey Oswald... We gave him the mission of killing Fidel Castro in Cuba... I don't know why he killed Kennedy. But I do know he used precisely the plan we had devised against Castro. Thus the CIA did not anticipate the president's assassination, but it was responsible for it. I share that guilt."

[Denny Zartman]

5 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

"Expendable" perhaps, though I would ask if we have any other examples of the CIA setting up their own assets to be framed for murder, let alone murder of a state leader.

Wasn't the Bay Of Pigs invasion a CIA funded mission designed to be blamed on Cuban exiles who were in reality assets of the CIA?

[David Boylan]

William Kent referred to Oswald as a useful idiot. Kent worked with and for David Phillips when they both were with the Cuba Project (BOP). Later in 1963 Kent appears to have been  assigned TDY to JMWAVE where he supervised George Joannides.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by David Boylan

[David Boylan]

And Kent was keeping an eye on Jim Garrison during his investigation. This was from 1967. Notice that Bolling was under cover as a member of  the DOD. Kent's cover is still redacted. Oh, and Bill Boxley aka William Wood is listed here also. e. Miss Gertrude Nagel?

 

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by David Boylan

[Matt Allison]

William Martin strikes me as one of the important, early CIA spies inside the Garrison investigation; like others, he seemed determined to lead Garrison in the wrong direction, which is what I believe was the plan they used to discredit him.

As far as the "useful idiot" quote, I think it is important to remember that term was used for people who were believed to be being used, often by Soviet or Cuban instigators; perhaps Kent said that about Oswald in order to continue to promulgate the BS Company line about Oswald's motives.  I doubt Kent would tell anything truly revealing to anyone, including his family. But who knows, perhaps he was indeed admitting that he knew from personal experience that Oswald had been manipulated.

[Benjamin Cole]

11 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

Wasn't the Bay Of Pigs invasion a CIA funded mission designed to be blamed on Cuban exiles who were in reality assets of the CIA?

That is my rough understanding. But the CIA wanted the Bay of Pigs invasion to be a success. They were not (wittingly) running a suicide mission, or setting up their own assets to be patsies.

Again, I am a bit sideways to the idea that the CIA set up one of its own loyal assets to be a patsy in the assassination of the President. 

Now, they might, with LOH cooperation, set him up as a patsy in a false-flag failed assassination attempt, and then grant Oswald a safe house, new identity somewhere...

[Ron Bulman]

Benjamin, imho many of the cia at the operational level wanted it to be a success.  A few at the top I have to wonder about.  Why did Dulles turn it over to Bissell?  Why was he on a Caribbean island for a youth conference at the time, unavailable.  There are more examples.

Some speculate Dulles and some of his associates and superiors were trying to force his hand on a choice of colonialism, war with Cuba and hopefully Russia for some of the military, or, embarrass him as weak on Communism.  Have you read The Devil's Chessboard by David Talbot?  Dulles wouldn't have hesitated to have used or murdered anyone.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Ron Bulman

[Benjamin Cole]

9 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Benjamin, imho many of the cia at the operational level wanted it to be a success.  A few at the top I have to wonder about.  Why did Dulles turn it over to Bissell?  Why was he on a Caribbean island for a youth conference at the time, unavailable.  There are more examples.

Some speculate Dulles and some of his associates and superiors were trying to force his hand on a choice of colonialism, war with Cuba and hopefully Russia for some of the military, or, embarrass him as weak on Communism.  Have you read The Devil's Chessboard by David Talbot?  Dulles wouldn't have hesitated to have used or murdered anyone.

Thanks for your comment. 

I agree that the CIA wanted to force JFK's hand, and not just on Cuba, but wherever US multinationals wanted a certain result. It gets even worse, as you know, with elements of the US military pushing JFK for a nuke war with Russia, which the US would "win." Egads. 

But getting back to topic, would CIA higher-ups actively plan and orchestrate the assassination of a US president, and then plan to make a patsy out of one of their own unwitting assets? 

This may be what happened. I prefer a plot with far fewer knowing participants. 

BTW, the fact that relatively low-level Cuban assets piggybacked on Phillips' false-flag fake assassination attempt (my version of history) hardly absolves the CIA, or the multinationalists, of incredible mayhem through the post-war era and continuing to this day. 

As James DiEugenio has pointed out, six million died in SE Asia after LBJ-Nixon, a bona fide holocaust, and for what? To read about Operation Phoenix, aka the Phoenix Program, is to be depressed for days, and that is if you are callous. Then My Lai, Agent Orange, hundreds of millions of cluster bombs in Laos and...well, too much to contemplate. 

And after the JFK assassination, the CIA did all that it could to deceive investigators and the public.  It may be some people were murdered, including Eladio Del Valle or Dorothy Kilgallen. 

Truman was right about the CIA, and so was JFK. And as Chuck Schumer said----

New Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Tuesday that President-elect Donald Trump is “being really dumb” by taking on the intelligence community and its assessments on Russia’s cyber activities.

“Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow.

“So even for a practical, supposedly hard-nosed businessman, he’s being really dumb to do this.”

The beat goes on....

 

 

 

[Denny Zartman]

On 2/25/2021 at 8:36 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

That is my rough understanding. But the CIA wanted the Bay of Pigs invasion to be a success. They were not (wittingly) running a suicide mission, or setting up their own assets to be patsies.

It has always been my understanding that the CIA knew it didn't have enough forces to take Cuba and would have needed full air support authorized by Kennedy in order to succeed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion

Quote

As the invaders lost the strategic initiative, the international community found out about the invasion, and U.S. President John F. Kennedy decided to withhold further air support.[7] The plan devised during Eisenhower's presidency had required involvement of both air and naval forces. Without air support, the invasion was being conducted with fewer forces than the CIA had deemed necessary. 

 

 

[Denny Zartman]

On 2/25/2021 at 10:21 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

But getting back to topic, would CIA higher-ups actively plan and orchestrate the assassination of a US president, and then plan to make a patsy out of one of their own unwitting assets?

I don't see why not. Grunts do the grunt work. Fall guys take the fall. Scapegoats take blame. That's what they do. As Joseph Milteer said before the assassination, "they will pick up somebody within hours afterwards, if anything like that would happen just to throw the public off." Either Milteer knew this for certain or he made a logical assumption.

To believe that Oswald would agree to be a rifleman in a false flag plot would mean that he didn't make the same obvious logical assumption that someone would be picked up and assigned the blame, or Oswald had been assured that someone else was going to be the patsy.

Since Oswald knew that already fit the profile of a loner with Russian and Cuban sympathies, it seems hard to believe that he would be assigned a rifleman role and also assured that someone else with a similar profile would take the fall for an intentionally failed assassination attempt. If someone with Russian/Cuban sympathies wasn't picked up and assigned the blame, what's the point of a false flag operation at all?