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Mary Moorman


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23 hours ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

And this is over 50 years later so there's that. I know she used a Polaroid camera, right? I vaguely remember those from my childhood but those are the ones where the picture comes out instantly and you gotta kinda wait for it to develope I guess you'd say. Am I correct in all this? So, using a camera like that, would she have had time for more than one picture between the first and third shot?

No, unless I am recalling wrongly.  It takes  about 10 seconds for the camera to process a Polaroid shot before it is taken from the camera.  This is why Moorman had only the one shot of the shooting sequence.  If the film came out instantly she may have had time to take a second photo.

OBTW, Moorman's Polaroid says the Zapruder film is wrong in it's shooting sequence.  Moorman said she heard the first shot when she took her photo and 2 or 3 more afterwards. (3 or 4 shots)  Definitely not in tune with the Zapruder film and others.  

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Lumpkin’s daughter told me she never heard about her dad having that photo. In a 1978 interview with the HSCA, Lumpkin stated «I must have that photo somewhere ». In his report, her school friend deputy sheriff Bill Wiseman mentioned only one photo showing the TSBD. Had she had two at THAT time, I assume she would have shown it too to Wiseman.

Edited by Denis Morissette
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On 2/27/2021 at 6:35 AM, Mark Tyler said:

When I first started studying the witness statements and interviews in 2019 I was quite shocked by this.  For many years I had read books and seen TV presentations about this case and I was always told that the head shot was the final shot.  Quite whether this was poor quality research or a deliberate deceit I'm not sure, but I do feel rather foolish for naively accepting what I was told without checking primary sources.

Don't beat yourself up...There are those that claim they are researchers that have studied the case for 40 years [or so] and are absolutely convinced that Oswald did it...all alone for no apparent reason that they can offer...[did it for his love of Castro etc] As far as the shots---No one will ever know [in this life]---How many and when. The search links are really hairy. What did that Dictabelt recording ever offer?

 

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John Butler, in one interview from the time of the assassination, like within the first few days I believe, she had said something about how you were only supposed to leave the picture in the camera for like a minute but with all the excitement going on she had forgotten she even took it and said it was about 4 or 5 minutes until she got it out. Or something to that effect if I'm recalling everything correctly.

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On 2/27/2021 at 9:51 AM, John Butler said:

No, unless I am recalling wrongly.  It takes  about 10 seconds for the camera to process a Polaroid shot before it is taken from the camera.  This is why Moorman had only the one shot of the shooting sequence.  If the film came out instantly she may have had time to take a second photo.

 

Was it ever reported exactly which model she had? The Series 40 covered several models around 1958 on. I had a Polaroid [wished I could have hung on to it] The original would eject a picture that one peeled of the backing after allowing as mentioned 10 seconds for a B&W to process. Then one needed to allow some drying time before handling or damage may occur.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Polaroid_instant_cameras

 

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Yeah, the ones I remember as a child in the early eighties had the picture come out, then you peeled off this plastic sheet or something over the front of it, and then you kinda waved it around in the air or something and slowly the picture started to reveal itself. Keep in mind however this would be the memory of a 4 or 5 year old at that time, haha!

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5 hours ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

John Butler, in one interview from the time of the assassination, like within the first few days I believe, she had said something about how you were only supposed to leave the picture in the camera for like a minute but with all the excitement going on she had forgotten she even took it and said it was about 4 or 5 minutes until she got it out. Or something to that effect if I'm recalling everything correctly.

She had to apply some liquid on the photo to preserve its quality. Jean Hill had the photos in her coat and she ran to the parking lot with them. 

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10 hours ago, Denis Morissette said:

She had to apply some liquid on the photo to preserve its quality. Jean Hill had the photos in her coat and she ran to the parking lot with them. 

I had one of the cheaper Polaroid cameras in about 1967.  There was a liquid and an applicator that had to be used on the picture after it came out of the camera.

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17 hours ago, Karl Hilliard said:

Was it ever reported exactly which model she had? The Series 40 covered several models around 1958 on. I had a Polaroid [wished I could have hung on to it] The original would eject a picture that one peeled of the backing after allowing as mentioned 10 seconds for a B&W to process. Then one needed to allow some drying time before handling or damage may occur.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Polaroid_instant_cameras

 

Karl,

Yeah, her camera model was mentioned and analyzed in some thread some time back.  I don't recall what the thread was.  She had the new or newer model of the Polaroid in 1963.  I believe she just bought it before the parade.  

Mary Moorman was consistent in what she said about the assassination throughout the years.  The only thing I remember her saying (which I can't verify since I don't recall the video this was from.  It was not important at the time.  I didn't make the connection until later.   This was sometime after the assassination she and Jean Hill were being interviewed in front of the Grassy Knoll.  She must have seen some media, perhaps early Zapruder photo/frames.  She said in a somewhat upset and sullen manner that she did not wear white slacks that day.  I wish I could find that or someone could.

She didn't say anything about high heels, but there is the scene of Jim Featherstone and her in the grass.  One high heel is edited out and the other is not.  This can be seen in this photo:

Mary-and-featherstone.png

But, one needs to magnify the section in the rectangular yellow:

mary-purse-1.jpg

From a Jack White crop:

mary-moorman-from-jack-white-1-crop.jpg

If you have good eyes and look closely at Mary's legs you can see what appears to be a dress matching the top half of her shown in the Dallas photos.  As an example, you never see below her or Jean Hill's waist.  I suspect both were wearing dresses.  There is one photo of Jean Hill on the grass in front of the Grassy Knoll with bare legs not slacks.

mary-jean-sheriffs-office.jpg

   

Edited by John Butler
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1 hour ago, Dan Rice said:

I had one of the cheaper Polaroid cameras in about 1967.  There was a liquid and an applicator that had to be used on the picture after it came out of the camera.

The famous Moorman photo would have much better with that liquid.

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I suspect Mary Moorman's shots after Z313 are a misremembering. She states she saw Kennedy grab his chest and then the car accelerated. Look at her photo. She can't see his chest, or what he is doing with his arms. She must be talking about the shot around Z190. She was likely panning her camera with the car. He testimony makes more sense as another' bang... Bang-bang witness'. 

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On 2/27/2021 at 4:35 AM, Mark Tyler said:

Indeed Pat, Moorman and other witnesses are very certain that one or two shots were fired after the head shot.  When I first started studying the witness statements and interviews in 2019 I was quite shocked by this.  For many years I had read books and seen TV presentations about this case and I was always told that the head shot was the final shot.  Quite whether this was poor quality research or a deliberate deceit I'm not sure, but I do feel rather foolish for naively accepting what I was told without checking primary sources.

I suspect you already know this, but this very issue was one of the reasons I created my website. I made the decision to read through ALL the eyewitness evidence. This led me to realize that the first shot absolutely positively hit Kennedy, and that the first shot miss myth spread by Lattimer, Posner and Myers, etc (and accepted by most everyone) was a hoax. So I started accumulating all the witness statements by location dnd chronology...and this led to an even more startling conclusion--that the last shot (or sound) absolutely positively failed to hit anyone. 

From pats peer.com, Chapter 2:

image.png

Edited by Pat Speer
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6 hours ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

I suspect Mary Moorman's shots after Z313 are a misremembering. She states she saw Kennedy grab his chest and then the car accelerated. Look at her photo. She can't see his chest, or what he is doing with his arms. She must be talking about the shot around Z190. She was likely panning her camera with the car. He testimony makes more sense as another' bang... Bang-bang witness'. 

Eddy B,

She made her statement saying the things she said about the shooting sequence within a few short hours of the assassination, possibly two.  She never changed her testimony over the years.

I don't know what sequence she said the shots were in, but she said there were 3 or 4.  That's at least 2 or 3 after the headshot.  She makes a xxxx out of the Zapruder film or vice versa.  Pat Speer's diagram above lends credence to what she said.

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