Mary Moorman

[Robin Unger]

Moorman Text 1

[Robin Unger]

Moorman Text 2

[Robin Unger]

Moorman Text 3

[Chris Bristow]

On 5/7/2021 at 11:09 PM, Tony Krome said:

Another photo to compare is the Croft photo. I believe he was using a 35mm, unsure of shutter speed. What I did was convert the Croft photo to black & white and compared the blurred people in the background to the people in Moorman. If you find time to do likewise, let me know what you think.

I love that photo because it is so clear. You don't have to strain your eyes like much of the photographic evidence.
I think the limo was going around 15mph. It would travel one inch at a shutter speed of 1/250th. The antenna on the back looks perfect. That leaves one inch of blur That matches the people in the background pretty well. One inch is 1/15th the width of the hub cap or slightly more than the side of Nellie's window frame.

[John Butler]

Croft is an interesting photo.  Again, many people just don't see things.  They simply look in general and not in detail.

There is at least one black woman or perhaps a man.  I would say woman due to her hair.  It is difficult to see.  That person has a camera.  I wonder what happened to the film or photos?  There is another black woman there in a blue skirt.  It is hard to tell whether but, she appears to be holding a camera.  Wonder what happened to her film?  And, then there is another black woman just west of the first person who may have a camera also.

If I am recalling correctly there is about 14 people holding cameras as the motorcade went by on Houston and then Elm.  They are unknown and their film is unknown.  No one pays attention to these people.  They are completely ignored by just about everyone.

[Chris Bristow]

4 hours ago, John Butler said:

Croft is an interesting photo.  Again, many people just don't see things.  They simply look in general and not in detail.

There is at least one black woman or perhaps a man.  I would say woman due to her hair.  It is difficult to see.  That person has a camera.  I wonder what happened to the film or photos?  There is another black woman there in a blue skirt.  It is hard to tell whether but, she appears to be holding a camera.  Wonder what happened to her film?  And, then there is another black woman just west of the first person who may have a camera also.

If I am recalling correctly there is about 14 people holding cameras as the motorcade went by on Houston and then Elm.  They are unknown and their film is unknown.  No one pays attention to these people.  They are completely ignored by just about everyone.

If they were holding a camera it was not up to their face during the Croft photo. The point at which JFK is the closest and not one of them is taking a picture. Sometimes when people want a really good view of a very special moment they hold the camera down and try to aim without the viewfinder. Other people just don't want to waste the moment fiddling with the camera.

[John Butler]

On 5/10/2021 at 11:31 PM, Chris Bristow said:

If they were holding a camera it was not up to their face during the Croft photo. The point at which JFK is the closest and not one of them is taking a picture. Sometimes when people want a really good view of a very special moment they hold the camera down and try to aim without the viewfinder. Other people just don't want to waste the moment fiddling with the camera.

Also difficult to track a moving object through the view finder.  

The point I was making was they had cameras.  Obviously, they had taken pictures prior or would after this scene.  Somewhere between 14 to 18 people had cameras on Houston and Elm Streets.  I really need to look at my notes.  I have something like 15 thousand files all of which are not in any kind of inventory order.  So, stuff is hard to find.

Along with this noting of unknown photographers in the media of Dealey Plaza is the idea that you can not see the passenger side of the vehicle on Elm and Houston.  The exceptions are Skaggs and Zapruder.  On Main Street coming down to the turn at the Main and Houston intersection basically in film all you see is the passenger side and the rear view as the p. limo approaches the intersection.  There are films and photos available to see the p. limo on Main Street but, not as it approaches the intersection.  

What I am saying is the view of the p. limo is limited to certain sides of the vehicle in certain areas.  There were photographers on the streets that we don't know anything about their film.  And, the question is why?

[Jonathan Cohen]

3 hours ago, John Butler said:

What I am saying is the view of the p. limo is limited to certain sides of the vehicle in certain areas.  There were photographers on the streets that we don't know anything about their film.  And, the question is why?

Are you suggesting some larger conspiracy to restrict the Dealey Plaza photo record to "certain sides of the vehicle" ? Not every question or anomaly in this case has to be the result of some massive cover-up. Isn't it entirely possible, even logical, that "we don't know anything about" the photographers you mention because a) they weren't actually holding cameras, and you're just misinterpreting the photos, b) they had cameras but didn't take any actual photos, c) they took photos but they didn't turn out, were blurry, etc. d) they intentionally didn't identify themselves to authorities due to the trauma of witnessing President Kennedy's murder from a few feet away?

[Chris Bristow]

It is true there is  lack of images from certain areas. People on the East side of Houston held their hands up to block the Sun to see the limo coming and I would assume that is an awkward place to try and take a photo. The people on Elm would have not had any problem taking photos as he approached.
Most of the photos show the limo after it passed like Beltzner and Willis. I think people on Elm would not have a great view till the limo gets close because JFK is almost behind Connally and no clear view of Jackie from the North side of Elm till they get very close. I think by the time the limo was close most would not want to be looking through a viewfinder. 

[John Butler]

11 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

It is true there is  lack of images from certain areas. People on the East side of Houston held their hands up to block the Sun to see the limo coming and I would assume that is an awkward place to try and take a photo.

Chris,

If you look at the shadows in Dorman then you will see that they move toward the north indicating the sun was not directly in the face of those folks on north side of Houston.  Lots of people have their hands up clapping, others are waving.  There are people there with objects in their hands.  I can only assume they are cameras.  That's logical.  There appears to be a sound or camera crew at the entrance between the two buildings, the Court House and the Records building.

Notice the shadows.  They are in a north/south direction.  Most of Dorman has been edited to obscure what can be seen.  In Dorman many of the frames showing the p. limo the contents of the cab are blacked out.

Dorman is not a reliable film.  To much editing has gone on in the film.  This is a lightened frame showing exactly what the darkness is in the crowd on North Elm.  Lots of people say Elsie was the poorest photographer.  She wasn't.  Her film was heavily edited.  If not edited this film would have gone a long ways in explaining how the assassination occurred.

[John Butler]

11 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

It is true there is  lack of images from certain areas. People on the East side of Houston held their hands up to block the Sun to see the limo coming and I would assume that is an awkward place to try and take a photo. The people on Elm would have not had any problem taking photos as he approached.
Most of the photos show the limo after it passed like Beltzner and Willis. I think people on Elm would not have a great view till the limo gets close because JFK is almost behind Connally and no clear view of Jackie from the North side of Elm till they get very close. I think by the time the limo was close most would not want to be looking through a viewfinder. 

Chris,

Rethinking this, wouldn't the sun be directly in the face of those on North Elm?   What about sun glare and Zapruder?  There doesn't seem to be any.  The sun on Elm may explain why people were not using their viewers.  Point and shoot due to sun glare.

[Chris Bristow]

13 hours ago, John Butler said:

Chris,

Rethinking this, wouldn't the sun be directly in the face of those on North Elm?   What about sun glare and Zapruder?  There doesn't seem to be any.  The sun on Elm may explain why people were not using their viewers.  Point and shoot due to sun glare.

Well the sun is in the Southwest and people on Elm would be looking East as the limo approached. If they looked at the limo after it passed them there would be some glare.

The people on Houston would have a glare problem as the limo approached. I think taking a photo on Houston and centering JFK in the picture would have to include a lot of sky in the background. The Horizon would be a little above half way up in the frame? But Zapruder was looking down on the limo and zoomed in so he didn't catch any sky as he panned his camera. That's why he didn't get any glare.

[Chris Bristow]

14 hours ago, John Butler said:

Chris,

If you look at the shadows in Dorman then you will see that they move toward the north indicating the sun was not directly in the face of those folks on north side of Houston.  Lots of people have their hands up clapping, others are waving.  There are people there with objects in their hands.  I can only assume they are cameras.  That's logical.  There appears to be a sound or camera crew at the entrance between the two buildings, the Court House and the Records building.

Notice the shadows.  They are in a north/south direction.  Most of Dorman has been edited to obscure what can be seen.  In Dorman many of the frames showing the p. limo the contents of the cab are blacked out.

Dorman is not a reliable film.  To much editing has gone on in the film.  This is a lightened frame showing exactly what the darkness is in the crowd on North Elm.  Lots of people say Elsie was the poorest photographer.  She wasn't.  Her film was heavily edited.  If not edited this film would have gone a long ways in explaining how the assassination occurred.

The only point I'd like to make about the doorman frames is that in the first one you can see the shadow coming off the front of the Harley, I assume it's Chaney, and it angles off to the right. If you extended a line through the shadow it would probably hit the crowd about 30 feet down the road, in front of the limo. The point at which that line intersects the crowd is the point at which the Sun is directly behind the bike cop from their perspective.

So everyone on Houston had a moment when the sun was right behind the limo and the glare was at its maximum.