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Sheriff's Deputies and the adddress book


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48 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Oswald landed at the TSBD six weeks before the assassination.  Dulles visited Dallas for his first time ever five weeks before.  And chuckled about it years afterwards.

There are very few degrees of separation between those close to Oswald and Dulles. Dulles is linked via Michael Paine's mother's best friend, and via De Mohrenschildt's brother.

I see the whole operation as compartmentalised. Taking the above into account, we may be looking at the patsy overlord.

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6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Stella Fay Puckett called her mother Gladys Johnson and said Oswald was being arrested across the street from where she was working.  The reply was, "Well, that explains why the FBI is here searching his room." 

 

Jim,

I suspect, but cannot prove, that Gladys Johnson mistook Will Fritz's plain clothed detectives for FBI agents; but to be perfectly honest, I don't know who the hell these people were.

At 2:40 PM, W.E. Potts, B.L. Senkel and Lt. E.L. Cunningham were dispatched to 1026 N. Beckley. Potts wrote in his after-action report (Box 2, Folder# 9, Item# 32) http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm that after he finished taking some affidavits, Fritz dispatched them to the Beckely St address at 2:40 and they arrived at Beckley at 3:00PM.

Detective B.L. Senkel also said in his after action report (Dallas Police Archives Box 3, Folder# 12, Item#1) that they arrived at 1026 N. Beckley at 3:00PM.


Mick Purdy in the ROKC Forum 12/08/2019

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1180p125-did-oswald-deny-living-at-1026-n-beckley

Washington Post reporter Ronnie Duggar?

image.png.99cdf3c22388ca8b54dc384b2c204063.png

 

(The question mark and underlining above are not mine - ST)

Neither one of the Johnson’s, nor Earlene Roberts were taken down to the police station to give affidavits.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340298/m1/1/?q=Affidavits

A search warrant for 1026 N. Beckley wasn't issued until almost 4:00 PM.

Report of Justice of the Peace, David Johnston.

Johnston Exhibit 1

(20H314

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1137#relPageId=334&tab=page

image.png.be5a1d6c82940348b804369dc58571cf.png

 

I agree with Richard Booth that if Hosty was so hot to trot to learn where Oswald lived, that he should have tailed Oswald home from work one day, and can't for the life of me figure out why he didn't do so.

Steve Thomas

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7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Steve:

From your work above the time line would be a bit after 3 PM for the cops and sheriff to know where Oswald was staying.

From Steve's post, referring to the arrival at the Paines;

Guy Rose wrote that after the Deputies showed up, they arrived at the front door at 3:30PM. 

If we take Mr. Johnson's testimony at face value, he said the cops were already at Beckley when both he and Earlene Roberts saw Oswald's picture flash up on the TV. It was 3:15pm Dallas time when Kaufman's photo of Oswald was shown. At this point we are led to believe that the Johnsons and Roberts were able to match a room to the face they saw on TV. But, as you mentioned, the FBI may have been there even earlier. I would presume if the FBI were legitimately searching the room, they or Mrs. Johnson would have passed that information on and the Oswald TV picture would not have been necessary to discover the room. If the FBI were there, the Oswald TV story / room discovery explanation is bogus.

Edited by Tony Krome
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The police sent Tippit and Mentzel out looking for

Lee Oswald in Oak Cliff shortly after the assassination.

Probably before 12:45 p.m. They knew his identity already and knew where he lived.

He was an FBI informant. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/1/2021 at 3:13 AM, Tony Krome said:

From Steve's post, referring to the arrival at the Paines;

Guy Rose wrote that after the Deputies showed up, they arrived at the front door at 3:30PM.

Tony,

Yes, the idea that Ruth Paine's address book led to the discovery that Oswald lived on Beckley is bogus.

The DPD and Sheriff's Deputies arrived at the Irving St. front door at 3:30.

The DPD arrived at the Beckley St. front door at 3:00.

And, if the Johnsons are to be believed, they were at Beckley even sooner than that.

If agents of the FBI were at Beckley, possibly as early as 2:00 PM, I would like to know who those agents were.

I have no problem believing that Oswald was an FBI informant, but the information flow from the FBI to local police was not exactly "sterling" shall we say, especially when it involved confidential informants. And, if Hosty is to be believed, the FBI did not know where Oswald lived.

Will Fritz told the Warren Commission that "some officer" told him (Fritz), out in the hall , shortly before Oswald was taken in for questioning, that Oswald lived on Beckley. Fritz never revealed who that officer was, nor did he reveal how that officer would be in possession of that information. I believe that this officer had some connection to military intelligence. I also believe that this officer could have been Billy Senkel, who rode in the parade with Colonel, George Lumpkin, Commandant of the 4150th Reserve Officers Training School in Dallas, and Colonel, George Whitmeyer, who Winston Lawson told the HSCA, "taught military intelligence".

Billy Senkel was also one of the DPD officers dispatched to Beckley St. and. if Earlene Roberts can be believed, twice said that when the police arrived at Beckley, said they were searching for someone named Harvey Lee Oswald.

Steve Thomas

Edited by Steve Thomas
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"The police sent Tippit and Mentzel out looking for

Lee Oswald in Oak Cliff shortly after the assassination.

Probably before 12:45 p.m. They knew his identity already and knew where he lived.

He was an FBI informant."

Earlene Roberts mentioned a tooting police car. We can safely exclude that vehicle as one driven by searching police. Earlene makes no mention of anything resembling Tippit or Mentzel checking in on Beckley, which would be a likely destination if they believed he actually lived there.

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53 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

If agents of the FBI were at Beckley, possibly as early as 2:00 PM, I would like to know who those agents were.

How about the same FBI agent that followed Oswald to Dallas from New Orleans?

Pena: When Oswald was transferred to Dallas, de Brueys was transferred to Dallas at the same time.

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48 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

How about the same FBI agent that followed Oswald to Dallas from New Orleans?

Pena: When Oswald was transferred to Dallas, de Brueys was transferred to Dallas at the same time.

Tony,

Do you know of a list of Dallas FBI agents back in November of 1963? I know I've seen one somewhere. I don't remember de Brueys being on it. Maybe he wasn't assigned to the Dallas office.

The following is just for curiosity's sake:

FBI Dallas History

https://www.fbi.gov/history/field-office-histories/dallas

image.png.c052b02e79f557fde66497b91fe30a08.png

Interior of an early Dallas Division office

I was surprised to learn that Gordon Shanklin only became the Special Agent in Charge of the Dallas Field Office in April, 1963.

Steve Thomas

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On 3/31/2021 at 8:48 PM, Richard Booth said:

I believe it was very likely that Ruth and Michael Paine's phones were tapped by the CIA given the nature of the operation that Ruth and Michael were involved in. I'm pretty certain that we do not agree on this, from what I have seen you write I understand you believe that Ruth Paine is Mother Theresa, just trying to help a poor pregnant Russian girl. Ruth's excuse that she was needed to trans-late is laughable, especially when you consider that Marina Oswald spoke English perfectly well and didn't need Ruth Paine for that.

We will have to agree to disagree about Ruth Paine, as I won't debate you about her and I will respect that you have a different opinion, which is fine by me. :)

Fair enough, but just quickly the Mother Theresa line is uncalled-for. The issue is not sainthood but ordinary mundane innocence of unproven charges. On Ruth's translating for Marina as laughable because Marina understood English better than she let on, unless Marina wanted Ruth to know (why would she), how would Ruth know, why would one assume that of Ruth. If Marina did not need a translator and Ruth did not know, then it is not a matter of laughing at Ruth but of Ruth being victimized and sympathy for Ruth would be the more appropriate response. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/1/2021 at 11:26 PM, Steve Thomas said:

Tony,

Do you know of a list of Dallas FBI agents back in November of 1963? I know I've seen one somewhere. I don't remember de Brueys being on it. Maybe he wasn't assigned to the Dallas office.

"The report of SA Warren C. Debrueys , December 2, 1963, at Dallas, Texas, beginning on page 82 reports that Oswald had made application for employment at the Louisiana Division of Employment Security on April 26, 1963"

Pena: When Oswald was transferred to Dallas, de Brueys was transferred to Dallas at the same time.

Edited by Tony Krome
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2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Pena: When Oswald was transferred to Dallas, de Brueys was transferred to Dallas at the same time.

Tony,

I think Debrueys was sent to Dallas on a TDY after the assassination to help out with the investigation because of his work with the FPCC.

TESTIMONY OF WARREN C. DEBRUEYS, 8 JAN 1976 Before the Church Committee

page 55

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1421#relPageId=55&search=Debrueys

image.png.7abdcf56004fd089c7084fbeaeee1c28.png

image.png.4d2422ced470e6b703411bd85b7ea7db.png

On page 64 he refers again to going to Dallas on November 23rd.

I think Pena was a little loose on the facts. Pena used an interesting choice of words though, when he talks about Oswald being "transferred" to Dallas.

Steve Thomas

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