From JFKA to Brian Sicknick: Deep State Behind the "News"

[Benjamin Cole]

56 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Friendly advice- don't pretend there is an equivalence between nude protests at Parliament and 1/6 if you want to be taken seriously when discussing history and politics...

If there are young women at these nude protests, I think you should provide a photo, as evidence. 

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

I'm looking forward to your research in this area.

So, why don’t you be honest, and tell me that you;

A - Don’t have a clue. 
B - Don’t want to say because it doesn’t support your argument. 
 

Let me know which it is? Thanks 
 

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

I'm looking forward to your research in this area.

If you can’t see any difference between the press conferences and media treatment with Trump vs Biden, i’m surprised. Did you watch the video? 
If that seems normal, just say. 
 

*Just for clarity we are talking about the media pushing to get Trump out in 2020, not the media pushing for Trump in 2016. Don’t conflate the two. 

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

On October 28, 2016 the US intel community had embarrassing material on both Clinton and Trump.  They found on the laptop of Anthony Weiner the sex pervert hundreds of thousands of Hillary's e-mails because his wife was a top Clinton aide; they had the Steele Dossier with its urinating prostitutes and Russian collusion.

Neither of them would be running for office if the intelligence agencies didn’t have blackmail material on them. why do you think the Pentagon have been collecting data on private citizens including their sexual preferences since the early 60’s? Now they have voice recordings, fingerprints and our facial recognition to add to that. Amazing the progress they’ve made. What’s next? Oh yeh, biometric ID’s. All of this starts with ARPA / DARPA. 
We’ve seen what happens if you can’t be leveraged, you get that open top car ride in Dallas, a plane crash, or Epstein’d/Vince Foster’d. Of course you may not believe that, unless it happens in a country like Russia or any that the US news networks or government doesn’t designate as an ally or democracy. 

[Cliff Varnell]

13 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

So, why don’t you be honest, and tell me that you;

A - Don’t have a clue. 
B - Don’t want to say because it doesn’t support your argument. 
 

Let me know which it is? Thanks

C - You brought it up.  Go ahead and do the research and we can discuss it.  You didn't think you were issuing a homework assignment, did you?

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If you can’t see any difference between the press conferences and media treatment with Trump vs Biden, i’m surprised. Did you watch the video? 

If that seems normal, just say.

I could only take the guy for 3 minutes.  All the eye-bugging and air quoting because Biden brought notes to a press conference.  Typical snowflake behavior. 

Chris, how much US cable news have you watched over the past 6 years?

The overwhelming reason Trump got bad press was because he said and did bad things in order to dominate every news cycle for 5 and a half years.  He wanted to keep over half the country in a constant state of outrage.

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*Just for clarity we are talking about the media pushing to get Trump out in 2020, not the media pushing for Trump in 2016. Don’t conflate the two. 

Not so fast.  That's all you have to say about Trump's installation in the White House?

Why do you suppose the Deep State wanted Trump in the White House instead of their girl Hill?

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Neither of them would be running for office if the intelligence agencies didn’t have blackmail material on them. why do you think the Pentagon have been collecting data on private citizens including their sexual pre  Total made-up non-scandal.ferences since the early 60’s?

It's one thing to have blackmail material and it's another making it the focus of the cable news cycle for 11 straight days.  In the case of Hillary, it was e-mails the FBI had already reviewed.

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Now they have voice recordings, fingerprints and our facial recognition to add to that. Amazing the progress they’ve made. What’s next? Oh yeh, biometric ID’s. All of this starts with ARPA / DARPA. 
We’ve seen what happens if you can’t be leveraged, you get that open top car ride in Dallas, a plane crash, or Epstein’d/Vince Foster’d. Of course you may not believe that, unless it happens in a country like Russia or any that the US news networks or government doesn’t designate as an ally or democracy. 

You aren't addressing that question to me, I hope.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

C - You brought it up.  Go ahead and do the research and we can discuss it.  You didn't think you were issuing a homework assignment, did you?

I did, I asked you a question and it wasn’t a homework assignment delegated as I am too lazy, I just thought you may know the answer. I think I have seen it somewhere and i’ll need to go digging. There is a problem with your logic though, as if I go away and do the research, how will we discuss it if you haven’t done the research also? :-) 

16 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

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I could only take the guy for 3 minutes.  All the eye-bugging and air quoting because Biden brought notes to a press conference.  Typical snowflake behavior. 

Chris, how much US cable news have you watched over the past 6 years?

The overwhelming reason Trump got bad press was because he said and did bad things in order to dominate every news cycle for 5 and a half years.  He wanted to keep over half the country in a constant state of outrage.

Ahh ok, it was a bit subtle, he actually parodies ‘snowflakes’, thats his act. He usually points out the absurd in society/politics.   

16 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Not so fast.  That's all you have to say about Trump's installation in the White House?

Why do you suppose the Deep State wanted Trump in the White House instead of their girl Hill?

It sounds like you want a debate on that but, it wasn’t my contention. The truth is that I am not sure they wanted Trump in. I can see you clearly think they did. My point was addressing the run up to the 2020 election. There might just be too many variables for either of us to say with any certainty about the 2016 scenario as to do that we’d need fo understand the mindset of the ‘Deep State’. Perhaps the ‘Power Elite’ of the late 50’s didn’t mind JFK getting in as he said some hawkish things and tapped the cold war drum a little, especially with him being an east coast elite himself. It sure seemed after the steel crisis that they wished Nixon had won in 1960. But, as I said, my point was on the lead up to 20 And the media tone toward Trump, not 2016. 

17 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

t's one thing to have blackmail material and it's another making it the focus of the cable news cycle for 11 straight days.  In the case of Hillary, it was e-mails the FBI had already reviewed.

As long as it keeps ratings high and makes for a close race, I can think of other things that have had a longer run at it. The FBI review might have had some scrutiny over its decision not to take it further in regard to security protocols (from memory). 
 

17 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

You aren't addressing that question to me, I hope.

I don’t think you need to worry about it. We’ve got plenty to talk about. Leave that one for the gallery. 
 

Oh and one thing I haven’t quoted is you Asked how much US news I have watched in the past 5-6 years. Lots, mostly CNN and Fox, both ends of the spectrum. I would say I have paid more attention to your news than British news. I started watching CNN a lot back when I was living in Brazil in 2005, we only had two English speaking channels, one was CNN and the other was BBC. I used to read the Economist and Time magazine a fair bit too (as they were some of the few English speaking mags I could get hold of).  

[Cliff Varnell]

47 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

 

I did, I asked you a question and it wasn’t a homework assignment delegated as I am too lazy, I just thought you may know the answer. I think I have seen it somewhere and i’ll need to go digging. There is a problem with your logic though, as if I go away and do the research, how will we discuss it if you haven’t done the research also? 🙂

Post the links and we'll go from there.

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Ahh ok, it was a bit subtle, he actually parodies ‘snowflakes’, thats his act. He usually points out the absurd in society/politics.   

Getting bent out of shape over a guy reading from notes at  press conference is what I call a snowflake.

Most right wingers are snowflakes.  They get triggered by the most mundane things.

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It sounds like you want a debate on that but, it wasn’t my contention. The truth is that I am not sure they wanted Trump in.

Oh really?  What tune did the Mighty Wurlitzer play over the last 11 days of the 2016 election?  Hillary E-mails exclusively for 11 days.

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I can see you clearly think they did.

I thought you were a media expert.  What tune did the Mighty Wurlitzer play over the last 11 days of the 2016 election?  Hillary E-mails exclusively for 11 days.

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My point was addressing the run up to the 2020 election. There might just be too many variables for either of us to say with any certainty about the 2016 scenario as to do that we’d need fo understand the mindset of the ‘Deep State’. 

That's true for you maybe but I binge-watched 3-4 thousand hours of cable news coverage in 2015-6 -- and I know what tune the Mighty Wurlitzer plays when they're out to get someone.

How many news cycles did the Russia-hacked-the-DNC story make over the last 5 months of the '16 campaign? Two, but nothing over the last 70 days.  How many news cycles did the Steele Dossier get leading up to the election?  Zero.

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Perhaps the ‘Power Elite’ of the late 50’s didn’t mind JFK getting in as he said some hawkish things and tapped the cold war drum a little, especially with him being an east coast elite himself.

His father played a large part in his career and early Presidency.

Quote

 

It sure seemed after the steel crisis that they wished Nixon had won in 1960. But, as I said, my point was on the lead up to 20 And the media tone toward Trump, not 2016. 

As long as it keeps ratings high and makes for a close race, I can think of other things that have had a longer run at it. The FBI review might have had some scrutiny over its decision not to take it further in regard to security protocols (from memory). 

They knew the e-mails were duplicates.  Nothing.  Comey openly slanted the field of the 2016 election.

Quote

I don’t think you need to worry about it. We’ve got plenty to talk about. Leave that one for the gallery. 
 

Oh and one thing I haven’t quoted is you Asked how much US news I have watched in the past 5-6 years. Lots, mostly CNN and Fox, both ends of the spectrum. I would say I have paid more attention to your news than British news. I started watching CNN a lot back when I was living in Brazil in 2005, we only had two English speaking channels, one was CNN and the other was BBC. I used to read the Economist and Time magazine a fair bit too (as they were some of the few English speaking mags I could get hold of).  

Okay, that'll work.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Cliff Varnell

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

They knew the e-mails were duplicates.  Nothing.  Comey openly slanted the field of the 2016 election.

My impression was that the law had been broken, as whether dupes or not, they shouldn’t have been on external hard drives. From memory one of her staffers had done the same. 

 

51 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

I thought you were a media expert.  What tune did the Mighty Wurlitzer play over the last 11 days of the 2016 election?  Hillary E-mails exclusively for 11 days.

You’ve had a dig there. 🙂 come on Cliff, keep it civil, it doesn’t need to be unpleasant. My field is PR and marketing (as I have mentioned before) not macro analysis of the 2016 US presidential campaign in conjunction with media narratives. That sounds a very niche area to specialise in. Sounds like something a think tank may look at but, I am not sure. 
 

30 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

His father played a large part in his career and early Presidency.

His father the pacifist or his father the insider-trader? Makes a difference which you are getting, considering the foreign policy strategy inherited at the time. 
 

32 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

That's true for you maybe but I binge-watched 3-4 thousand hours of cable news coverage in 2015-6 -- and I know what tune the Mighty Wurlitzer plays when they're out to get someone.

How many news cycles did the Russia-hacked-the-DNC story make over the last 5 months of the '16 campaign? Two, but nothing over the last 70 days.  How many news cycles did the Steele Dossier get leading up to the election?  Zero.

Again, You are focusing the convo on 2016, which seems an area you are familiar with. I did state clearly the run up to 2016 wasn’t my area of contention, 2020 is. I am being a good sport here. 

i am guessing it has occurred to you that Nixon was the ‘Deep State’ favourite in 1968 and by Watergate he wasn’t. The media is and has changed its tune in a blink when it’s suited it. It may have done that with Hilary and Trump. The concept that you never want a leader too popular with the public in command as they are difficult to remove or manipulate has occurred to me, the steel crisis and BOP might have done that to weaken JFK’s grasp. The system seems to work best with ‘divide and rule’ tactics being used on the electorate, with all believing its a close run thing with an uncertain outcome. How many actually thought Trump would win or had a chance until those figures started going up on the board, commentators looked dumbfounded. Did they overcook the news campaign you mentioned? A close race is better for ratings. 
 

44 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Post the links and we'll go from there.

Ok, if I do that and spend my time and it proves orange man did something right compared to previous administrations, saved lives, do I have your agreement that you’ll acknowledge that as a good thing? Otherwise its not worth my while.
 

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Getting bent out of shape over a guy reading from notes at  press conference is what I call a snowflake.

Most right wingers are snowflakes.  They get triggered by the most mundane things.

Again, I don’t know why you haven’t grasped this, its parody, he is mocking snowflakes and Biden. The guy has 1.75m subscribers, I know it’s not just me who picks up on it. 
As for most right-wingers being ‘snowflakes’, is that when they’re not being clansman, fascists, domestic terrorists, hawks, militants and so on? It always appeared to me that the left is producing more easily triggered ‘snowflakes’. A feminist type girl on Tinder the other night thought it was ‘passive aggressive’ that my height was listed in my bio. There I was thinking by listing it I was being helpful after a dozen girls had asked how tall I am. 🤷‍♂️🤣 It might be just the areas we live in and circles we mix in. 

I do have a final though tonight; is it possible that this chat that’s become a tad inane has ruined Benjamin’s thread? Or ruined it for others? If that is the case, we are both responsible and should probably learn from it. 
Has it, Cliff? 

[Matt Allison]

3 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

I think really that illustrates the point, perhaps its a little flippant but, from where I am standing the most powerful country on earth wasn’t nearly taken over by a bunch of people dressed like Jamiriqui or Davy Crocket. I do understand being at the epicentre of propaganda that it’s hard to look past it and it’s easier for someone at the periphery to have a clear perspective.
 

It’s interesting that you’re calling it 1/6, like we did 9/11. 

I understand Rupert Murdoch has infested the news business in your country just as he has here, but I'm not sure if that counts as an excuse to be so blissfully ignorant of everything that happened with 1/6, as surely you still have access to real journalism on your island over there in the Atlantic.

We call it 1/6 because that's the day it happened, that's it. It isn't necessary to infuse it with any extra linguistic trickery, as the danger of Trumpism is in plain sight. The plot was weeks in the making, and future attacks by violent white supremacists remain the number one terror threat in the US. 

There will be more indictments forthcoming, trials and many more details about what happened being made public in the coming months. Maybe consider subscribing to a good US newspaper for the details.

 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

I understand Rupert Murdoch has infested the news business in your country just as he has here, but I'm not sure if that counts as an excuse to be so blissfully ignorant of everything that happened with 1/6, as surely you still have access to real journalism on your island over there in the Atlantic.

We call it 1/6 because that's the day it happened, that's it. It isn't necessary to infuse it with any extra linguistic trickery, as the danger of Trumpism is in plain sight. The plot was weeks in the making, and future attacks by violent white supremacists remain the number one terror threat in the US. 

There will be more indictments forthcoming, trials and many more details about what happened being made public in the coming months. Maybe consider subscribing to a good US newspaper for the details.

 

I am open minded, Matt. If you’d like to talk me through how that rabble was going to carry out a full coup d’etat in the USA, step by step. I’d be very interested in the mechanics of it all. 

Another question I have that I can’t immediately see the answer to is; how many white supremacists do you have in the USA? 
 

Which US newspaper would you recommend? 
 

Thanks

Chris

[Cliff Varnell]

2 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

 

My impression was that the law had been broken, as whether dupes or not, they shouldn’t have been on external hard drives. From memory one of her staffers had done the same. 

No law had been broken.  It isn't against the law to use a private server, although it might leave one more vulnerable to hacking.  The GOP successfully ginned up the optics of corruption where none existed.

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You’ve had a dig there. 🙂 come on Cliff, keep it civil, it doesn’t need to be unpleasant. My field is PR and marketing (as I have mentioned before) not macro analysis of the 2016 US presidential campaign in conjunction with media narratives. That sounds a very niche area to specialise in. Sounds like something a think tank may look at but, I am not sure.

It's pretty straightforward.  Clinton was demonized the way Saddam, Khadafy, Diem, or Noriega were demonized prior to regime change.

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His father the pacifist or his father the insider-trader? Makes a difference which you are getting, considering the foreign policy strategy inherited at the time. 
 

Again, You are focusing the convo on 2016, which seems an area you are familiar with. I did state clearly the run up to 2016 wasn’t my area of contention, 2020 is. I am being a good sport here. 

You're doing fine.  I'm of the view Trump 2020 can't be understood outside Trump 2016.  He used the same media strategy -- flood the airwaves with fresh daily outrage, thrill his supporters by pissing everyone else off.

Comparing the media coverage of Biden 2020 and Trump 2020 isn't apples-to-apples.  It isn't apples-to-oranges.  It's more like apples-to-dumpster-fires.

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i am guessing it has occurred to you that Nixon was the ‘Deep State’ favourite in 1968 and by Watergate he wasn’t.

'68 was a toss-up.

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The media is and has changed its tune in a blink when it’s suited it. It may have done that with Hilary and Trump.

This is Bernie Sanders on Oct.13, 2015:

"The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails!"

Quote

 

The concept that you never want a leader too popular with the public in command as they are difficult to remove or manipulate has occurred to me, the steel crisis and BOP might have done that to weaken JFK’s grasp. The system seems to work best with ‘divide and rule’ tactics being used on the electorate, with all believing its a close run thing with an uncertain outcome. How many actually thought Trump would win or had a chance until those figures started going up on the board, commentators looked dumbfounded. Did they overcook the news campaign you mentioned? A close race is better for ratings. 
 

Ok, if I do that and spend my time and it proves orange man did something right compared to previous administrations, saved lives, do I have your agreement that you’ll acknowledge that as a good thing? Otherwise its not worth my while.

I'll admit that it's a very good thing that Iran didn't fall for Trump's gambit and go to war.

As far as saving lives go -- Trump's response to the covid killed hundreds of thousands.

Which is why I suspect the Deep State installed him, knowing he'd make the Plandemic worse rather than better.

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Again, I don’t know why you haven’t grasped this, its parody, he is mocking snowflakes and Biden.

And he's projecting his own snowflake nature.  Snowflakes get triggered into thinking there's a cabal of pedophile cannibals operating out of a pizzeria basement.

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The guy has 1.75m subscribers, I know it’s not just me who picks up on it. 

A lot of right wing snowflakes in the world.

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As for most right-wingers being ‘snowflakes’, is that when they’re not being clansman, fascists, domestic terrorists, hawks, militants and so on?

I've never found that waving a gun around makes a guy tough.

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It always appeared to me that the left is producing more easily triggered ‘snowflakes’.

The right wing lost it's mind when Obama wore a tan suit.  Recently they lost their mind when Biden wore a mask on a Zoom call.

Last year there were over 10,000 peaceful George Floyd protests, marching against police violence. 

On 1/6 triggered Trumpers sacked the Capitol Building over nothing.

Quote

 

A feminist type girl on Tinder the other night thought it was ‘passive aggressive’ that my height was listed in my bio. There I was thinking by listing it I was being helpful after a dozen girls had asked how tall I am. 🤷‍♂️🤣 It might be just the areas we live in and circles we mix in. 

Out of that dozen girls how many were "feminist types"?  All of them?  Half of them?  I'll guess half which means when it comes to being overly politically correct it's only one out of seven feminist girls.

6 to 1 has always been good odds.

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I do have a final though tonight; is it possible that this chat that’s become a tad inane has ruined Benjamin’s thread? Or ruined it for others? If that is the case, we are both responsible and should probably learn from it. 
Has it, Cliff? 

I can't remember many threads that didn't veer off-topic.  It's no thing.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Cliff Varnell

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Quote

 

I can't remember many threads that didn't veer off-topic.  It's no thing.

Well, it’s on us I guess. 
 

37 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Quote

 

I can't remember many threads that didn't veer off-topic.  It's no thing.

I don’t know, most were genuinely not wanting someone their height or shorter. Just had the one who took exception, maybe she was having a bad day?! 🤷‍♂️
Its strange times, all look a bit CGI with these filters and apps, also they are wearing next to nothing, make-up seems revolutionary compared to when I first went out in the late 90’s. 
 

44 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

The right wing lost it's mind when Obama wore a tan suit.  Recently they lost their mind when Biden wore a mask on a Zoom call.

Last year there were over 10,000 peaceful George Floyd protests, marching against police violence. 

On 1/6 triggered Trumpers sacked the Capitol Building over nothing.

I reckon this might be the difference with news sources though, left makes the right look silly and right makes the left look silly. Always the extremes not the standard people. 
 

47 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

A lot of right wing snowflakes in the world.

Perhaps a lot of snowflakes just in general, everyone seems offended. 
 

48 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

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I've never found that waving a gun around makes a guy tough

I agree aside from certain circumstances. Must be difficult in a culture where weapons are commonplace. I didn’t enjoy their presence in El Salvador, very intimidating place at night. 
 

55 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

And he's projecting his own snowflake nature.  Snowflakes get triggered into thinking there's a cabal of pedophile cannibals operating out of a pizzeria basement.

He’s a very normal guy when he isn’t doing the parody. I have seen him on a podcast talking intelligently. Each to their own I guess. Is that Alex Jones still alive? The trouble this side of the pond is that people think he’s a typical American. Sorry 🤷‍♂️ He surely doesn’t get any airtime does he? 
 

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

And he's projecting his own snowflake nature.  Snowflakes get triggered into thinking there's a cabal of pedophile cannibals operating out of a pizzeria basement.

I followed that pretty closely as I had the Oman trip planned well before that assassination. The events leading up to it, attacks on refineries and what not seemed suspicious. The only footage we saw were fuzzy looking images of men in black and that could have been shot in San Diego at a seal base or anywhere. I thought; how on earth is this the only proof that Iran is being the aggressor here?! Intelligence says blah blah blah and a pic we could have taken of anyone, it all seemed a bit Bay of Tonkin style. Then the assassination happened, and all over the news in Arabic the USA was getting called the Great Satan. I don’t think Iran will goto war with the US, they’d get smashed to bits, they know it too. That’s why I think the attacks in the press leading up-to it were false flags. What it did do was close the strait or Hormuz and spiked oil prices. $$$$ 

You need bogeymen to to drum up threats to keep justifying your own arms spending. I think the US killed that general knowing Iran wouldn’t escalate it to the point of war. Funnily enough I did see a list of countries that don’t have a Rothschild stake in their banking system, I forget the name of the prevalent corporation but, the list was basically Syria, North Korea, Iran and one I forget, maybe Yemen. The list was bigger 20 years ago and all the war on terror countries seemed to be getting picked off one by one. Just another of those coincidences. I am not being very articulate here, I could explain this much better when less tired. 
 

You’re saying some interesting things here on Covid, what interests me is that you think there is a conspiracy by the deep state?! Just financial or is there more to it? It looked decidedly inconvenient for Trump considering the markets and approval ratings before and after Covid started. It sunk him. 

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

This is Bernie Sanders on Oct.13, 2015:

"The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails!"

The party line. I liked Bernie, he seems decent in interviews. Would have preferred him to Hilary “Nurse Ratchet” Clinton. 
 

Way past my bedtime.