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2 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

The answer, of course, is that none are edited. As usual, you are imagining things that aren't there and making absurd pronouncements about "cut and paste" errors, boxcars that are actually signs and evil "giant machines" used to magnify the area of the overpass. Stop the madness !!

Isn't this the kind of writing that use to be called purple prose?  Madness!!  Evil machines!!  I am not replying to the J & J crowd.  I am simply beginning to wonder if I am living in their heads rent free.  

Ron Bulman's point about a south bound train is not me.  I have argued and still do that there was a train in Dealey Plaza.  This is based on several witnesses, but mainly 3 DPD officers.  Maybe Ron is thinking about my argument along with Chris Bristow that a shot from the south knoll could account for one of the Elm Street shots based on reasoning from the Zapruder.  Chris was basing his shot from the ground in the area of the south knoll.  I was working on the angle that it could have come from as high the railroad tracks and possibly from inside a train. 

I'm not the greatest in math and angles and such.  However, what I was doing was being overlooked by and given occasional help from Chris Bristow, Chris Davidson, and David Josephs.  So, a shot from the south end of the railroad bridge at train height is a possibility.  That's all.   

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3 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

Bell.gif

That's it.  Great gif.  Worthy of Chris Davidson.  You can see the traffic in the background on the Bell film.  Ron's truck or van is seen briefly.

Perhaps the gif needs to be slowed down a bit so that you can view the material a little better.  I notice the horizon is not flat like a table top here.  I would have to see if some of the individual frames show a flat horizon line.  The vehicles still seem somewhat large for that distance.  How far from the bridge to the Stemmons is it?  A couple of hundred feet?

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Posted (edited)

This is from Chris's gif.  Bell frame #12.  

Bell-frame-12-a.jpg

This is a cleaned up and very clear (for a Dealey Plaza film) frame.  I don't think I can see any of the 10 railroad men on the overpass above Elm Street in the areas shown above.  The horizon line is not table top flat.  The other side of the bridge is still to high and gives a false impression of the width of the Triple Underpass.  The view of the Stemmons is better in a film with traffic moving.  

Here is a crop and mag of the same area:

bell-12-frame-crop.jpg

I can't tell whether there are people or blobs above Elm Street.  If people, it is not the right number.  I am assuming blobs since two people are clearly seen at the north end of the bridge above the grass.  This is where I place Officer Foster and the 10 railroad men.  You can still see everything from there and do not need to be artificially posted above Elm Street as in Altgens 7.  There is no train here which as it was designed to contradict the statements of Officer White, Earle Brown, and others.  Seeing is believing!  Right?

This is a crop and mag of Bell # 22 from the gif:

bell-22-crop-and-mag.jpg

If you accept the blobs above Elm Street as people then you need to accept the blobs above Main Street as people.  Definitely not Altgens 7!

What is that giant evil machine beyond the overpass??

 

Edited by John Butler
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Train and no train comparison;

train-compare-dealey-plaza.png

Tony,

I believe the bottom photo is Willis slide 7.  It is rather boring.  There is no giant, evil machine visible.  Because of the presence of the press bus this is about 1 or 2 minutes after the assassination.  There is the Babushka Lady present, I believe the peripatetic Altgens or "Oscar" Bothun is running across the street, the two or three men on the steps are still visible when they are gone in other media.  Jean Hill is back from her run up the hill in Bell.  It's obvious she didn't spent much time in the railroad yard. 

It is interesting to note that the people on the bridge are very similar to the blobs in the recently posted Bell frames.  This could mean that there were people on the bridge in Bell, although hard to see.  But, they are still different from  Altgens 7 with a couple of people above Main.  The spacing of the people is the same.  There is at least a minute between Bell and Willis due to the presence of the bus.  They haven't moved in the interval between Bell and Wills.  Due to the ground level view we don't see all the signs and buildings in Bell.  Bell does not view far enough south to see the Texas Bank sign.

Maybe the Willis photo is not so boring with "Oscar" Bothun there.  More on Richard O. “Dick” Bothun later.

Edited by John Butler
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On 5/31/2021 at 1:27 AM, Ron Bulman said:

Richard, and Tony, this was discussed in another thread 2-3 years ago.

Thanks Ron.  I believe I read parts of that thread, but have never seriously thought (or found any kind of proof) that there was a train moving anywhere immediately before, during or shortly thereafter.  Had the Warren Omission been a standard quality investigation, it would have been interesting to have patrolman White explain his "ghost train"  He must have had some reason to say he could not see people on the other side of the overpass.  Perhaps it was his way to make sure he wasn't asked about people behind the fence in the rail yard.  I'm sure at some point in the later afternoon they had to begin moving in/out of the yard to maintain or get back on schedule as the police supposedly "cleared" the train cars of suspicion/nefarious characters.

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49 minutes ago, Richard Price said:

"ghost train"

Not only that, but there were reports of a "Circus train" as well.

VIRGIE RACHLEY: I guess it would be by the underpass, the triple underpass, and there is a railroad track that runs back out there and there was a train that looked like a circus train as well as I can remember now, back there, and we all ran to the plaza-the little thing there I guess you call it a plaza

Every time I read this, I picture caged lions and elephants behind the TSBD.

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3 hours ago, Richard Price said:

Thanks Ron.  I believe I read parts of that thread, but have never seriously thought (or found any kind of proof) that there was a train moving anywhere immediately before, during or shortly thereafter.  Had the Warren Omission been a standard quality investigation, it would have been interesting to have patrolman White explain his "ghost train"  He must have had some reason to say he could not see people on the other side of the overpass.  Perhaps it was his way to make sure he wasn't asked about people behind the fence in the rail yard.  I'm sure at some point in the later afternoon they had to begin moving in/out of the yard to maintain or get back on schedule as the police supposedly "cleared" the train cars of suspicion/nefarious characters.

Richard, I once again thank Chris for helping prove my memory is not totally gone in the video at the top this page.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Not only that, but there were reports of a "Circus train" as well.

VIRGIE RACHLEY: I guess it would be by the underpass, the triple underpass, and there is a railroad track that runs back out there and there was a train that looked like a circus train as well as I can remember now, back there, and we all ran to the plaza-the little thing there I guess you call it a plaza

Every time I read this, I picture caged lions and elephants behind the TSBD.

Tony,

That's really interesting.  Never heard of that before.  Thanks.  I am going to take Virgie at her word.  I generally do that until some other evidence contradicts what was said.  Chris Barstow and I beat just about every bush north of the underpass and didn't really find any exact proof of a train on or just off the underpass after the assassination.  Just speculation on my part and DPD officer statements that can lead one to think of the "ghost train". 

Claims of seeing a train are like the Chisms and Newmans who saw the President stand in the p. limo and then sit directly before the shooting.  It's like witnesses on Main and Houston saying they heard shots when the p. limo entered the intersection.  Other witnesses claimed they heard shooting when the p. limo was on Main Street.  Toni Glover sees the President's head explode in the intersection of Houston and Elm.

These sort of statements are hard to ignore and at the same time hard to believe.  

OBTW, didn't Phil Willis sue or claim that his film was altered and a train removed from it while in the hands of the authorities?  A train behind the pergola?

Maybe someone should look into all the weird statements in Dealey Plaza.  Often times at the periphery of an event one finds truths that are sometimes obscured by the majority view.

Edited by John Butler
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On 5/31/2021 at 7:51 PM, Chris Davidson said:

Bell.gif

Damn Chris.  Your so good.  If a frame of the box truck was frozen and blown up one might even be able to read the wording on the side of it.  I wondered about my memory of it's existence but it's sure as hell there.  No train in the way. Thanks again. 

Now if I had a better understanding of physics in some of your other posts . . . 

Anybody heard from DJ lately?  

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On 6/1/2021 at 4:01 PM, Tony Krome said:

Not only that, but there were reports of a "Circus train" as well.

VIRGIE RACHLEY: I guess it would be by the underpass, the triple underpass, and there is a railroad track that runs back out there and there was a train that looked like a circus train as well as I can remember now, back there, and we all ran to the plaza-the little thing there I guess you call it a plaza

Every time I read this, I picture caged lions and elephants behind the TSBD.

If there was a circus train back there for very long, that no one else saw, they would need to kill the lamb for the lions and find some water for the elephants.

 

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On 6/1/2021 at 10:51 AM, Chris Davidson said:

Bell.gif

Great gif, awesome quality and clarity.........

Zoom in peoples.

PLEASE enlarge this gif and pay it some close attention to the top left hand corner and activity on the overpass........

Anyone see a train on the triple overpass.........No, right OK, good.

Can everyone make out patrolman Foster on the triple over pass....last person visible on the top lefthand side of this gif(obscured by sprocket hole briefly) he is wearing black uniform with a white hat...he is standing a few steps behind the last two railway workers on the left hand side (standing over main street section of overpass). YOU MIGHT NEED TO WATCH GIF 3 OR 4 TIMES.

This is exactly where he said he was in affidavits,  a few feet back from railing so he could watch over the 11 or 12 men he allowed to stay there to his immediate left.

It places him back from the railing by 4 to 6 feet. And approximately 6 to 10 feet into the Main street section of the overpass.

This would give him a clearer view to his right hand side to see if anyone was up on the overpass above the Commerce Street section and the bend towards the downward sloping exit from the overpass.

Where patrolman Foster never saw anyone whilst he was on the overpass.

 

AJ.

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