Jump to content
The Education Forum

Is the "Lansdale Hypothesis" of the JFK Assassination the Real Deal?


Recommended Posts

Not to my knowledge. Here is a brief description of the aborted Chicago plot:

According to the FBI, a group of four right–wing extremists, armed with rifles, would probably attempt the assassination while the president’s car was on the Northwest Expressway between O’Hare Airport and downtown Chicago.

Secret Service investigators followed two leads:

  • On Thursday 31 October, a landlady telephoned the Chicago police, telling them that she had discovered four rifles in one of her rooms which was rented to a group of four men. The police informed the Secret Service, who took two of the four men into custody the next day. There are no records of any weapons having been discovered. The two men were interrogated, but refused to admit to being part of a conspiracy to murder the president.
  • An unknown source accused a man named Thomas Arthur Vallee of threatening to assassinate JFK. Although Vallee was not associated with the two men in custody, he appeared to be a right–wing extremist and he certainly owned several guns and a large quantity of ammunition. At about 9 o’clock on Saturday morning, two hours before Kennedy was due to land at O’Hare, Vallee was stopped by the police on the pretext of having committed a minor driving offence, and was arrested.

Kennedy’s trip to Chicago was called off at the last moment, ostensibly because of the need for the president to monitor the progress of the military coup d’état in South Vietnam, which had taken place the previous day. The two men in custody were released without charge, and have never been identified.

The Chicago Plot and the Dallas Plot

Threats of violence against political figures happen all the time. The significance of the Chicago plot, if there was one, rested on its apparent similarities to the events in Dallas three weeks later. In particular, there were several similarities between the career of Lee Harvey Oswald and Thomas Arthur Vallee’s account of his own career:

  • Both were former Marines.
  • Both had served at Marine bases in Japan that hosted the U–2 spy plane: Oswald at Atsugi, Vallee at Camp Otsu.
  • Both had been involved with anti–Castro Cubans: Oswald in New Orleans, Vallee at a training camp at Levittown on Long Island, New York.
  • Both had recently started working at premises that overlooked the routes of presidential parades: Oswald at the Texas School Book Depository on Elm Street in Dallas, Vallee at IPP Litho–Plate at 625 West Jackson Boulevard in Chicago.

There were two other curious coincidences:

  • The tip–off to the FBI about the assassination plot in Chicago came from an informant identified only as ‘Lee’. In the first few weeks after the assassination, there were rumours that Lee Oswald had been a paid informant of the FBI.
  • Thomas Vallee was arrested at 9:10am Chicago time, having been under constant surveillance since the previous day. Five minutes later, at 10:15 Washington time, President Kennedy’s press spokesman, Pierre Salinger, announced that the visit to Chicago had been cancelled. The decision to cancel the trip had presumably been made several minutes earlier. The timing has led some commentators to conclude that Vallee was allowed to remain on the streets until he was no longer required to perform his unwitting role as designated patsy.

Edwin Black and Abraham Bolden

Edwin Black: ‘The Plot to Kill JFK in Chicago’

The main source of information about the Chicago plot is an article by the investigative journalist, Edwin Black, ‘The Plot to Kill JFK in Chicago’, Chicago Independent, November 1975, which is available in various formats at:

Black’s main source was a former Secret Service agent, Abraham Bolden, who was also interviewed by James Douglass for his book, JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters, Orbis Books, 2008; see pp.200–207, 213–217.

Abraham Bolden and the Secret Service

Abraham Bolden claimed that the Secret Service had not informed the Warren Commision of the events in Chicago. When he attempted to contact J. Lee Rankin, the General Counsel of the Warren Commission, Bolden was arrested and charged with accepting a bribe. He was convicted after a retrial, and was sentenced to six years in prison.

Bolden claimed that he had been framed. He had been convicted on the word of two known counterfeiters, one of whom later admitted in court that he had committed perjury when testifying against Bolden.

Abraham Bolden published an autobiography, The Echo From Dealey Plaza: The True Story of the First African American on the White House Secret Service Detail and his Quest for Justice after the Assassination of JFK, Crown Publishing/Random House, 2008. For more about the book and the Thomas Vallee affair, see:

The House Select Committee on Assassinations investigated Bolden’s account of events in Chicago. It pointed out that “no agent who had been assigned to Chicago confirmed any aspect of Bolden’s version”, which it found to be of “questionable authenticity” (HSCA Report, pp.231f).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 135
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

13 minutes ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

Not to my knowledge. Here is a brief description of the aborted Chicago plot:

According to the FBI, a group of four right–wing extremists, armed with rifles, would probably attempt the assassination while the president’s car was on the Northwest Expressway between O’Hare Airport and downtown Chicago.

Secret Service investigators followed two leads:

  • On Thursday 31 October, a landlady telephoned the Chicago police, telling them that she had discovered four rifles in one of her rooms which was rented to a group of four men. The police informed the Secret Service, who took two of the four men into custody the next day. There are no records of any weapons having been discovered. The two men were interrogated, but refused to admit to being part of a conspiracy to murder the president.
  • An unknown source accused a man named Thomas Arthur Vallee of threatening to assassinate JFK. Although Vallee was not associated with the two men in custody, he appeared to be a right–wing extremist and he certainly owned several guns and a large quantity of ammunition. At about 9 o’clock on Saturday morning, two hours before Kennedy was due to land at O’Hare, Vallee was stopped by the police on the pretext of having committed a minor driving offence, and was arrested.

Kennedy’s trip to Chicago was called off at the last moment, ostensibly because of the need for the president to monitor the progress of the military coup d’état in South Vietnam, which had taken place the previous day. The two men in custody were released without charge, and have never been identified.

The Chicago Plot and the Dallas Plot

Threats of violence against political figures happen all the time. The significance of the Chicago plot, if there was one, rested on its apparent similarities to the events in Dallas three weeks later. In particular, there were several similarities between the career of Lee Harvey Oswald and Thomas Arthur Vallee’s account of his own career:

  • Both were former Marines.
  • Both had served at Marine bases in Japan that hosted the U–2 spy plane: Oswald at Atsugi, Vallee at Camp Otsu.
  • Both had been involved with anti–Castro Cubans: Oswald in New Orleans, Vallee at a training camp at Levittown on Long Island, New York.
  • Both had recently started working at premises that overlooked the routes of presidential parades: Oswald at the Texas School Book Depository on Elm Street in Dallas, Vallee at IPP Litho–Plate at 625 West Jackson Boulevard in Chicago.

There were two other curious coincidences:

  • The tip–off to the FBI about the assassination plot in Chicago came from an informant identified only as ‘Lee’. In the first few weeks after the assassination, there were rumours that Lee Oswald had been a paid informant of the FBI.
  • Thomas Vallee was arrested at 9:10am Chicago time, having been under constant surveillance since the previous day. Five minutes later, at 10:15 Washington time, President Kennedy’s press spokesman, Pierre Salinger, announced that the visit to Chicago had been cancelled. The decision to cancel the trip had presumably been made several minutes earlier. The timing has led some commentators to conclude that Vallee was allowed to remain on the streets until he was no longer required to perform his unwitting role as designated patsy.

Edwin Black and Abraham Bolden

Edwin Black: ‘The Plot to Kill JFK in Chicago’

The main source of information about the Chicago plot is an article by the investigative journalist, Edwin Black, ‘The Plot to Kill JFK in Chicago’, Chicago Independent, November 1975, which is available in various formats at:

Black’s main source was a former Secret Service agent, Abraham Bolden, who was also interviewed by James Douglass for his book, JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters, Orbis Books, 2008; see pp.200–207, 213–217.

Abraham Bolden and the Secret Service

Abraham Bolden claimed that the Secret Service had not informed the Warren Commision of the events in Chicago. When he attempted to contact J. Lee Rankin, the General Counsel of the Warren Commission, Bolden was arrested and charged with accepting a bribe. He was convicted after a retrial, and was sentenced to six years in prison.

Bolden claimed that he had been framed. He had been convicted on the word of two known counterfeiters, one of whom later admitted in court that he had committed perjury when testifying against Bolden.

Abraham Bolden published an autobiography, The Echo From Dealey Plaza: The True Story of the First African American on the White House Secret Service Detail and his Quest for Justice after the Assassination of JFK, Crown Publishing/Random House, 2008. For more about the book and the Thomas Vallee affair, see:

The House Select Committee on Assassinations investigated Bolden’s account of events in Chicago. It pointed out that “no agent who had been assigned to Chicago confirmed any aspect of Bolden’s version”, which it found to be of “questionable authenticity” (HSCA Report, pp.231f).

Cheers Chuck, i’d read bits of the Bolden stuff. It’s highly suspicious that there is no record of the two arrested and no follow up on the other two that shared the room with the arrested two. 
 

Presumably because two men were arrested as well as Vallee, the secret service must have been informed, yet none can corroborate Bolden’s story. Hmm

 

Some very striking coincidences there. Is there somewhere that has the alleged Miami plot details? Did JfK have to get a chopper out or something? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

Thanks Chuck, a great read. I had no idea about LA. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

Chris B. - I think DAP was in Dallas the day of the Big Event (based on a comment attributed to DAP's brother).  His friend,McLendon, owned a radio station in Dallas.  Ruby visited that station around the time of the Big Event.  So, yes, I believe DAP was in charge of the logistics of the Big Event.

And, it does not surprise me that LeMay and Krulak had Landsdale removed because of Landsdale's position on Vietnam.  I believe they had JFK removed because of his (JFK's)  postion on Vietnam.

And, I believe LeMay and Krulak helped develop the Domino theory (if we don't stop communism in Vietnam, it will spread to the rest of Asia).  It did not surprise me when LeMay decided to run as the Vice Presidential candidate with George Wallace as the Presidential candidate.  

 

 

Chuck,

     My impression is that Lansdale was working at a higher organizational level than Phillips, in the same Company.  Lansdale had a close relationship with Allen Dulles.  He was a "black ops" Golden Boy for Dulles and the CIA after his success in the Philippines.

     For those who believe that Dulles was a key player in the JFK assassination, it's not a great leap to hypothesize, as Prouty did, that Lansdale was Allen Dulles's main factotum in Dallas.  (Prouty had 26 years to think about this before mailing his "Lansdale Hypothesis" to Garrison in March of 1990.)

     He must also have had working relationships with the Operation Mongoose teams in Florida and Louisiana prior to 11/22/63-- Clay Shaw, et.al.

     And, as Prouty told Garrison, Lansdale was a black ops/scenario genius, with additional expertise in psy ops-- e.g., relationships with media moguls like Henry Luce, et.al.  (Phillips also had a background in journalism, as I recall.)

     Then Lansdale conveniently "retired" on November 1, 1963-- and was known to be in Dallas.

      In any case, Lansdale and Phillips would have been working on the same assassination team.

 

Edited by W. Niederhut
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i dont think people at the top would have conspired to kill a president. There were many ways to undermine him without resorting to the risky proposition of planning and implementing an assassination. It is one thing to plot the assassination of a foregin leader but the murder of a president was a step way too far. There was no assurance this could have been successfully pulled off. Their professional and personal lives would have been at risk if they failed.

No- the more likely scenario is much more messy . I believe the plot was hatched much lower down the food chain some combination of off-the-book contractors and automonous groups that had been supported by the CIA pulled this off and leadership had to then conspire to cover up their negligence.  Much closer to Iran Contra scenario.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

i dont think people at the top would have conspired to kill a president. There were many ways to undermine him without resorting to the risky proposition of planning and implementing an assassination. It is one thing to plot the assassination of a foregin leader but the murder of a president was a step way too far. There was no assurance this could have been successfully pulled off. Their professional and personal lives would have been at risk if they failed.

No- the more likely scenario is much more messy . I believe the plot was hatched much lower down the food chain some combination of off-the-book contractors and automonous groups that had been supported by the CIA pulled this off and leadership had to then conspire to cover up their negligence.  Much closer to Iran Contra scenario.

Lawrence,

     Prouty theorized that the JFK assassination op had to be organized at a very high level because it required the authority to control and coordinate agencies like the Secret Service, FBI, Dallas PD, Bethesda Naval facilities, and, of course, the mainstream media (CBS, Life magazine, etc.)

     Lower level management would have lacked those capabilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All it took to get those agencies to cover up was the probability that they would suffer immense embarrassment and defunding if they were shown to have a connection to the assassination.

It probably doesn't benefit Prouty to bring up the tramps, as they were not conspirators. They were tramps. That was confirmed some 25+ years ago.

I'd like to learn more about Lansdale, but isn't he on record as saying he got along with JFK? There's the anecdote about Kennedy kidding Lansdale about being like James Bond, to which Lansdale replied "I'll introduce you to the real James Bond", and having Bill Harvey visit the WH. To which Kennedy's response was "that wasn't James Bond".

And one would also need to reconcile how RFK and Lansdale worked together on Mongoose if there was such bad feelings supposedly there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Matt Allison said:

All it took to get those agencies to cover up was the probability that they would suffer immense embarrassment and defunding if they were shown to have a connection to the assassination.

It probably doesn't benefit Prouty to bring up the tramps, as they were not conspirators. They were tramps. That was confirmed some 25+ years ago.

I'd like to learn more about Lansdale, but isn't he on record as saying he got along with JFK? There's the anecdote about Kennedy kidding Lansdale about being like James Bond, to which Lansdale replied "I'll introduce you to the real James Bond", and having Bill Harvey visit the WH. To which Kennedy's response was "that wasn't James Bond".

And one would also need to reconcile how RFK and Lansdale worked together on Mongoose if there was such bad feelings supposedly there.

Matt,

     How were all of these agencies recruited for the assassination op in the first place?  Who had the authority to initiate their involvement?

     Does anyone doubt that the Dallas op was very carefully staged-- from Oswald's employment at the TSBD in October to the selection of the kill zone, routing of the motorcade, positioning and evacuation of snipers, the seizing of JFK's cadaver, scrubbing of the limo, framing of Oswald in the mass media, and the systematic elimination of key witnesses, for years?

     Quite a complex "magic trick."

     As for Lansdale's relationship with JFK, Prouty discusses how Lansdale soured on JFK after he failed to be appointed U.S. Ambassador to Saigon, before he was put in charge of Mongoose.  (See Prouty's March 6, 1990 letter to Garrison at the top of this thread.)

     Then Mongoose was shut down by JFK and RFK, in an effort to de-escalate U.S. conflicts with the Soviet Union after the Cuban Missile Crisis.

     My impression is that the Operation Mongoose guys were furious at JFK and RFK for putting the kibosh on their Anti-Castro ops.

    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Chuck,

     My impression is that Lansdale was working at a higher organizational level than Phillips, in the same Company.  Lansdale had a close relationship with Allen Dulles.  He was a "black ops" Golden Boy for Dulles and the CIA after his success in the Philippines.

     For those who believe that Dulles was a key player in the JFK assassination, it's not a great leap to hypothesize, as Prouty did, that Lansdale was Allen Dulles's main factotum in Dallas.

Allen Dulles knowingly set up the daughter-in-law of his girlfriend Mary Bancroft's close friend Ruth Paine?

Quote

 

(Prouty had 26 years to think about this before mailing his "Lansdale Hypothesis" to Garrison in March of 1990.)

     He must also have had working relationships with the Operation Mongoose teams in Florida and Louisiana prior to 11/22/63-- Clay Shaw, et.al.

     And, as Prouty told Garrison, Lansdale was a black ops/scenario genius, with additional expertise in psy ops-- e.g., relationships with media moguls like Henry Luce, et.al.  (Phillips also had a background in journalism, as I recall.)

Which is why I think these guys were assigned to the cover-up, the course of which was determined by the fate of Lee Harvey Oswald. The architects of the Oswald Assassination didn't need to know that much about the Kennedy Assassination other than time and place.  Neither Lansdale nor Phillips had ever planned the ambush of a slow moving, well armed caravan, had they?

On paper, the man for that job would have been AMWORLD's Carl Jenkins, who had trained the Thai Border Police how to interdict slow moving, well armed opium caravans (and taught the Kuomintang how to protect their opium caravans from interdiction.)

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_The_Wheaton_Lead.html

Before the CIA tapped Bill Harvey for ZRRIFLE they offered the assassin-wrangler gig to Charles Siragusa of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics.  Siragusa turned them down.  He continued as a liaison between the FBN and CIA while also working with the CIA Technical Services Division -- the same outfit who had civilians working for the US Army develop blood soluble paralytics and toxins used under cover by the CIA.

On paper, Siragusa would have been the best man to put together a shooter team.  He wouldn't have necessarily known who it was for.

 

Edited by Cliff Varnell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

W. Niederhut, Cliff V. Matt A. -- all good /valid points. Lawrence, I do believe the Big Event was approved at very high levels (JCS, CIA executives and some very important business people in the US- in that order of importance to the Big Event).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

i dont think people at the top would have conspired to kill a president. There were many ways to undermine him without resorting to the risky proposition of planning and implementing an assassination. It is one thing to plot the assassination of a foregin leader but the murder of a president was a step way too far. There was no assurance this could have been successfully pulled off. Their professional and personal lives would have been at risk if they failed.

No- the more likely scenario is much more messy . I believe the plot was hatched much lower down the food chain some combination of off-the-book contractors and automonous groups that had been supported by the CIA pulled this off and leadership had to then conspire to cover up their negligence.  Much closer to Iran Contra scenario.

Lawrence S.---That's roughly my take too. 

Although it should be noted that serious JFKA researcher John Newman posits the CIA had an operational interest in LHO back to 1959, and then was biography-building LHO for a year in front of the JFKA. 

This biography-building would have been beyond the ken of Cuban exiles, the Mob, etc., and had to have been directed by higher-ups in CIA. No sign Lansdale was involved. 

My guess is David Atlee Phillips was hatching a false-flag fake JFKA, with LHO as the willing patsy.

The plan leaked and someone piggy-backed on the plan, perhaps Eladio Del Valle and Herminio Diaz Garcia. 

I suspect the post-JFKA cover-up included CIA higher-ups, and indeed included the effective hiring of the Mob (Jack Ruby) to make sure LHO did not talk. 

Anyway, that's my best guess. 

As usual, I posit any serious conspiracy to assassinate a US president would have had a very limited number of participants. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Matt,

     How were all of these agencies recruited for the assassination op in the first place?  Who had the authority to initiate their involvement?

     Quite a complex "magic trick."

 

    

I don't think that many agencies were involved; I'm just saying you'd be surprised at how much CYA can happen under threat of job loss, embarrassment and/or defunding.

The idea of a political assassination is to kill someone and not get caught. Period. That means using the bare minimum of people necessary, and anyone involved is only aware of "need to know" details. It's too common to think this was some kind of elaborate, grandiose theatrical production, when it was nothing of the sort.

I don't think killing the President in an open car was that complex an endeavor, and JFK himself vocally expressed the same sentiment. When reading Batchelor's report to Curry that outlines exactly what protections were put into place by the SS and DPD for JFK's visit, it's clear that the emphasis was on massive security at the Trade Mart. The motorcade security did not seem to be a worry for either the SS or DPD, outside of having a lead car and plenty of motorcycle cops. Prior to 11/22, they traveled the parade route and agreed to make sure that all bridges that had to be traveled under would be cleared, as that had apparently been an issue in the past. I don't know what other bridges were in the route, but I don't think the Triple Underpass bridge seemed particularly secure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

I don't think that many agencies were involved; I'm just saying you'd be surprised at how much CYA can happen under threat of job loss, embarrassment and/or defunding.

The idea of a political assassination is to kill someone and not get caught. Period. That means using the bare minimum of people necessary, and anyone involved is only aware of "need to know" details. It's too common to think this was some kind of elaborate, grandiose theatrical production, when it was nothing of the sort.

I don't think killing the President in an open car was that complex an endeavor, and JFK himself vocally expressed the same sentiment. When reading Batchelor's report to Curry that outlines exactly what protections were put into place by the SS and DPD for JFK's visit, it's clear that the emphasis was on massive security at the Trade Mart. The motorcade security did not seem to be a worry for either the SS or DPD, outside of having a lead car and plenty of motorcycle cops. Prior to 11/22, they traveled the parade route and agreed to make sure that all bridges that had to be traveled under would be cleared, as that had apparently been an issue in the past. I don't know what other bridges were in the route, but I don't think the Triple Underpass bridge seemed particularly secure.

No the triple underpass  was not secured as it was supposed to be.  E.G. picture of a guy on it with a walkie talkie in Vince Palamara's new book Honest Answers.  It was supposed to be clear but for a cop on each end.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LHO was not a willing patsy. He told the press that he did not shoot anybody. That is why LHO had to be killed. He was not going to take the rap willingly. And, as LBJ was reported to have said, there will be no trial of LHO- not now, not ever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...