This is Counterpunch?

[James DiEugenio]

  I guess maybe Jeff Morley had an impact there?  He did a couple of articles for them on the critical side.

But this is really interesting.  Recall, this was Cockburn's old haunt.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/05/28/letters-from-minsk-lee-harvey-oswald-comes-in-for-the-cold-war/

Edited June 5, 2021 by James DiEugenio

[Benjamin Cole]

That is an interesting story in Counterpunch, and pretty good for a general media publication. 

Missing is mention of Dr. Ernst Titovets, who was perhaps LHO's best friend in Minsk, but also likely an asset of the old KGB. 

Titovets and Oswald re-enacted plays and faux interviews, and tape recordings were made. Again, in some respects this stupifying. Kids today might think recording personal events is commonplace.

The number of people who tape-recorded themselves in the late 1950s-early 60s, in non-media events, is miniscule, or better said, microscopic. 

Titovets, an accomplished academic in Russia, says he found conversation with LHO to be stimulating and worthy. Those sentiments would be echoed a few years later by George de Mohrenschildt, the CIA asset in Dallas. 

Whatever we think of Titovets and de Mohrenschildt's character, politics and motivations, both were highly intelligent fellows and again their observations directly conflict with the WC-media image of LHO as the high-school dropout, leftie-loser-loner. It appears LHO could hold his own in conversations with academic-intellectual sorts of people. 

BTW, both Titovets and de Mohrenschildt say (or said) they do not believe LHO accomplished the JFKA. 

 

[Paul Brancato]

Good article, thought provoking. Whenever we read about spy games it’s always two sides pitted against each other in a deadly game. We have written the entire history of US Soviet relations with that framework. It’s almost like we cannot imagine any other reality. But is it real? I’ve asked this question so often here and elsewhere, and it has never engendered an Intelligent discussion. We cannot think outside this box. However I find myself unwilling to accept this framework. Does anyone else question it? What started me on this path in earnest was looking closely at James Jesus Angleton. He was a man of impeccable fascist credentials, from his fascist father, to his work with Italian fascists, to his long tenure in the CIA which was almost entirely focussed on Soviet relations. Yet it was he that friended Kim Philby and was the last to recognize him as a Soviet spy. As history would have it Angleton spent the rest of his tenure looking for a mole he never found, ruining careers along the way, and behaving himself as if he was the perfect deep cover Soviet spy by wreaking havoc in the CIA. 
When JFK and Khrushchev opened what they thought was a back communications channel they confessed to each other that they feared or could not control their own military hardliners. Then poof - they were gone, murdered and ousted, and the hard liners took control. To whose benefit? 
I postulate that there is a hidden ‘Fourth Reich’, a Deep State that knows no international or ideological boundaries. Recent US/Russian relations do nothing to dissuade me of that point of view. 

[John Butler]

MAY 28, 2021

Letters From Minsk: Lee Harvey Oswald Comes in for the Cold War

BY MATTHEW STEVENSON

…Researchers have always suspected that conversations within Oswald’s apartment were monitored and recorded by the KGB. These suspicions were confirmed when Normal Mailer published a few of these conversations in his 1995 book, “Oswald’s Tale,” assuming the transcripts are genuine. But it was not until I met Ana Ziger, in 1998, that I realized Mailer had failed to find the answer to the most important question: What language were Oswald and Marina speaking? Where are the original KGB tapes? [Ziger told Armstrong that Oswald struggled to speak Russian.]

Ana’s statements clearly conflicted with Marina who said that when she met Oswald (March, 1961) he spoke Russian “with a Baltic accent” and she didn’t realize that he was a foreigner. Clearly, either Ana Ziger or Marina was lying—either Oswald spoke Russian or he didn’t.

Marina’s ability to read, write, and speak English fluently before she left Russia is indisputable. After emigrating to the United States she hid her English-speaking ability in order to protect her “cover” as a probable KGB operative. Harvey Oswald did the same thing in Russia by hiding his ability to speak Russian…

 

This is one of the very, very few things I disagree with in the Harvey and Lee story.  An Oswald that could not speak the Russian language and an Oswald that spoke Russian fluently with a Baltic accent cannot be reconciled.  To me, this indicates both Oswalds were there at one time, perhaps as a replacement or both there at once. 

I prefer the replacement idea with Lee Oswald being there first with his technical knowledge of the U2 and radar technology.  It explains, at least to me, why one Oswald had a great difficulty, and the other had no problems with the Russian language. 

If one looks closely at the Harvey and Lee facts Lee Oswald is the one who had a great deal of training in aircraft maintenance and repair, radar training, and perhaps training inn radar technology when he visited other bases concerned with radar technology and the U2 just prior to his leaving the Marine Corps in March, 1959.  This is months before Harvey leaves the Marine Corps.

This extra training could have been acquired at the Nellis Air Force Base.  Oswald was sent there in December, 1958 as part of this 30 day leave after service in Japan. This base, also had Area 51 nearby, is where there were many interesting secrets the Russians would have loved to have.  He was also sent to Yuma Air Force Station in January, 1959.  This was a Cold War Air Force Radar Station first established in 1956 near Yuma, Yuma County, Arizona.  This was a STRAC base with advanced radar technology.

When Harvey Oswald entered the Marine Corps, PFC Lee Oswald was already working in aircraft maintenance and repair in California.  I believe his whole career was about radar and the U2. 

I do not believe either Harvey or Lee, whichever was first into Russia, could hide anything from the Russian KGB.  Chemicals and torture would insure that.  Harvey appears to have some training in resisting interrogation.  At least this was the opinion of Capt. Fritz who did his interrogation.  Lee is an unknown, but whatever spy training Harvey had must have been given to Lee also.

IMO, Lee Oswald was sent there as a double agent.  One who would actively betray his country for his socialist and communist ideals.  It is the only way he could have been accepted by the Russians.  He had to have shown a hatred for the US and had important radar secrets to reveal.  He could also reveal his training as an operative who had turned against his CIA masters. 

Lee Oswald was 16 years old when he entered the Marine Corps in 1956.  He first tried to enter into the Marines based on a fraudulent document sponsored by this mother, Marquerite.  That attempt failed.  There must have been success later for him to have a 3-year term and leave the Marines in March, 1959.

Could Harvey Oswald have hidden his identity if he was first into the Soviet Union?  Likely not.  The KGB would have discovered his language ability.  More than likely, if Harvey was first, he would have revealed his true identity and training as by a intelligence agency from his childhood immigrant status to the present.  His true profession of socialist beliefs would be recognized.  Whereas, Lee’s was not. 

In one of Harvey’s written statements, he said he had no brothers or sisters.  He also said he received extra training with the US Army.  This varies from Lee’s background and training.  It enhances the idea that he may have told all to the Soviets.    

This is my attempt to provide an explanation for the statement: “Clearly, either Ana Ziger or Marina was lying—either Oswald spoke Russian or he didn’t.”

Edited June 5, 2021 by John Butler

[Paul Brancato]

Is there any evidence at all that the Russians knew there were two Oswalds? 

[James DiEugenio]

The Russians are very tight lipped about this today.

We tried for the film but got little cooperation.

[Paul Brancato]

Can’t wait to see the film. Over the years the Russians have been somewhat forthcoming about Oswald.whether any of it is truthful is another question. In all that time I’ve never read anything to suggest they were confused about his identity. What do you make of the two Oswalds? 

[Benjamin Cole]

On 6/5/2021 at 10:28 PM, Paul Brancato said:

Good article, thought provoking. Whenever we read about spy games it’s always two sides pitted against each other in a deadly game. We have written the entire history of US Soviet relations with that framework. It’s almost like we cannot imagine any other reality. But is it real? I’ve asked this question so often here and elsewhere, and it has never engendered an Intelligent discussion. We cannot think outside this box. However I find myself unwilling to accept this framework. Does anyone else question it? What started me on this path in earnest was looking closely at James Jesus Angleton. He was a man of impeccable fascist credentials, from his fascist father, to his work with Italian fascists, to his long tenure in the CIA which was almost entirely focussed on Soviet relations. Yet it was he that friended Kim Philby and was the last to recognize him as a Soviet spy. As history would have it Angleton spent the rest of his tenure looking for a mole he never found, ruining careers along the way, and behaving himself as if he was the perfect deep cover Soviet spy by wreaking havoc in the CIA. 
When JFK and Khrushchev opened what they thought was a back communications channel they confessed to each other that they feared or could not control their own military hardliners. Then poof - they were gone, murdered and ousted, and the hard liners took control. To whose benefit? 
I postulate that there is a hidden ‘Fourth Reich’, a Deep State that knows no international or ideological boundaries. Recent US/Russian relations do nothing to dissuade me of that point of view. 

"I postulate that there is a hidden ‘Fourth Reich’, a Deep State that knows no international or ideological boundaries." --Paul B.

IMHO, you are onto something. Multinational corporations and globalists across the world find national boundaries and loyalties annoying. 

They want the global guard service (US military) and compliant governments everywhere. 

Where this is spooky is (I contend) not Russia, which may be a true outsider to the global system, but in Beijing. Apple, Disney, the NBA, WalMart, Amazon, Comcast, BlackRock, GM, Tesla---you name it, they want nicey-nice with the Chinese Communist Party. (BTW, I think Putin is a thug). 

Sheesh, it looks like COVID-19 leaked from a lab in Wuhan doing bioweapons work, and the US media (owned by globalists) played it as "debunked conspiracy theory."  You know, Grassy Knoll stuff. 

A "Fourth Reich" may be too harsh to describe this new world order, but certainly multinationals-globalists want access everywhere, and human rights can take a back seat, if not thrown under the bus. 

"AT&T pressured the Commerce Department to keep a Chinese military-controlled telecom company off the United States' sanction list despite its use of forced labor and other human rights abuses against Uyghur Muslims, former Commerce Department undersecretary Corey Stewart told "Tucker Carlson Tonight" Wednesday." Fox News, Feb. 24

AT&T owns CNN, btw. AT&T does business in China, like the rest of the US power elite. This is just one of a 1,000 examples.... 

Interesting topic. 

[Paul Brancato]

Well, yeah. Btw I use the term Fourth Reich knowing it throws people off, but it’s because after the War (and during) the poopoo capitalists prepared to survive. It is corporate now, and was then too. They didn’t just hide out in Argentina and Paraguay, they infiltrated here and elsewhere, and they were not held to account for the most part. There were interlocking directorates in many major international corporations. 

[Dennis Berube]

On 6/5/2021 at 3:57 PM, James DiEugenio said:

We tried for the film but got little cooperation.

I have wondered about what Oliver asked Putin off camera during his series of interviews in regards to the JFK (and maybe 9/11) case, it seemed there was definitely off limit questions for Putin. The Soviets were saying it was a domestic right wing coup contemporaneously, but now have nothing to reveal? Interesting. I mean, Putin has already been called a "killer" by thou who shall remain nameless, what does he have to lose?

I imagine the KGB had significant infiltration into the White Russian community and if memory serves, wasn't there a higher ranking White Russian priest who made comments about the "Old man will take care of it" or something to that effect in regards to the JFK issue? It seems likely to me that they would've pieced the conspiracy together from at least Dulles downwards to a significant extent.

This also reminds me of what Stalin supposedly said to Elliot Roosevelt about his father being killed by the Churchill gang in the sense that the intel agencies of these superpower countries have a great amount of resources.

[Denny Zartman]

It is clear from Hoover's 1960 memo that Oswald was not just "some guy." This article fairly well confirms it. Oswald got preferential treatment as an open Marxist in the Marine Corps, was welcomed warmly into the USSR, and welcomed back to the USA just as easily despite his pledge to give away valuable military information. None of that makes sense unless there was something special about him.

I have never been a proponent nor an opponent of the Harvey and Lee theory, but I believe the balance of the evidence points toward it being likely true.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Denny Zartman

[Denny Zartman]

1 minute ago, Denny Zartman said:

 

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Denny Zartman
Edit fail on previous post

[Denny Zartman]

On 6/5/2021 at 12:19 PM, John Butler said:

Marina’s ability to read, write, and speak English fluently before she left Russia is indisputable.

This is also quite telling.