The 3 Carcanos

[Sean Coleman]

Surely Roger C can’t be dismissed as a kook? In ‘2 men in Dallas’ he comes across as cool, calm and earnest with nothing to gain from his testimony. In fact he lost a lot from it…

But he doesn’t mention the Mauser in his WC testimony, was 8 feet away from Boone discovering the weapon, with the event filmed by Alyea, including JC Day dusting a MC!!?? 

Genuinely puzzled

[Gil Jesus]

On 6/20/2021 at 12:54 PM, John Butler said:

Could you provide more information or some source that mentioned this 7.65mm Mauser shell in the bushes at the TSBD?  I'm interested in the location of the bushes.  South facing: east side of the TSBD or west Side.   Or, perhaps the north face?  East face?  West face?

Sorry, to ask the question seeing that 2007 is a long time ago.  But, Thanks anyway. 

 

John, the source was Seymour Weitzman himself. He told his psychiatrist that he found a spent 7.65 shell in the bushes outside the TSBD. I'm not sure if he told him specifically where but that was his story. I'm sure the interview with the psychiatrist is on line. I believe I saw it some years ago on Denis Morrissette's site. There is in evidence a small envelope marked "7.65 shell" but it is empty. I believe the two are connected.

[James DiEugenio]

The info about the envelope is in Twyman's book if I recall.

[Gil Jesus]

On 6/19/2021 at 11:29 AM, Sean Coleman said:

Gil, great piece, I’m with you.

Do you think a Mauser was ever on site? Roger C was convinced and he seemed to be a good egg and  Seymour W agreed then didn’t….

 

Consider the Testimony of Arnold Rowland, who claimed to have seen the man in the window with the rifle. Keep in mind that the Argentine 7.65 Mauser was a popular rifle to be converted into a 30.06.

Mr. SPECTER - Can you describe the rifle with any more particularity than you already have?
Mr. ROWLAND - No. In proportion to the scope it appeared to me to be a .30-odd size 6, a deer rifle with a fairly large or powerful scope.
Mr. SPECTER - When you say, .30-odd-6, exactly what did you mean by that?
Mr. ROWLAND - That is a rifle that is used quite frequently for deer hunting. It is an import.

Didn't someone bring a deer hunting rifle into the Texas School Book Depository two days before the assassination ?

Edited June 21, 2021 by Gil Jesus

[Ron Bulman]

6 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

Consider the Testimony of Arnold Rowland, who claimed to have seen the man in the window with the rifle. Keep in mind that the Argentine 7.65 Mauser was a popular rifle to be converted into a 30.06.

Mr. SPECTER - Can you describe the rifle with any more particularity than you already have?
Mr. ROWLAND - No. In proportion to the scope it appeared to me to be a .30-odd size 6, a deer rifle with a fairly large or powerful scope.
Mr. SPECTER - When you say, .30-odd-6, exactly what did you mean by that?
Mr. ROWLAND - That is a rifle that is used quite frequently for deer hunting. It is an import.

Didn't someone bring a deer hunting rifle into the Texas School Book Depository two days before the assassination ?

Yes, one of the book company managers or salesman.  He brought in a new 30-06 he bought to deer hunt with and a .22 bought for his son, showed them off to Truly in particular if I remember right, among others.  I can't remember the guy's name at the moment.

As an aside it not a 30 odd 6, it's a 30 Ought 6.  My dad had one as a deer hunting rifle, I was told converted from a M-1.

[Joseph McBride]

From Roy Truly's May 14, 1964, testimony to the Warren Commission:

Mr. BALL. Your testimony is filed in volume 28, I believe, of the Commission here. There are certain matters which have come to the attention of the Commission since then that I would like to inquire about, and that's the reason we are taking your deposition, which will be in addition to the testimony you have already given.
Do you recall anytime that you saw any guns in the Texas School Book Depository Building? 
Mr. TRULY. Yes; I did. 
Mr. BALL. Prior to November 22, 1963? 
Mr. TRULY. Yes; I saw two guns on November 20. 
Mr. BALL. Whose guns were they? 
Mr. TRULY. They belonged to Mr. Warren Caster. [He was assistant manager for Southwest Publishing at the TSBD.]
Mr. BALL. Now, before inquiring into the circumstances of seeing two guns that belonged to Mr. Warren Caster on November 20, 1963, I'll ask you whether or not you ever at anytime before that time or after that time saw guns in the Texas School Book Depository Building? 
Mr. TRULY. Never before. 
Mr. BALL. Never before, and between that date Wednesday, November 20, and Friday, November 22, did you ever see any guns in the Texas School Book Depository Building? 
Mr. TRULY. I did see guns in there after the assassination. . . . 

Mr. BALL. On November 20, 1963, you saw two guns owned by Mr. Warren Caster, can you tell me where and when and the circumstances under which you saw these guns? 
Mr. TRULY. It was during the lunch period or right at the end of the lunch period on November 20. Mr. Caster came in the door from the first floor and spoke to me and showed me two rifles that he had just purchased. I looked at these and picked up the larger one of the two and examined it and handed it back to Mr. Caster, with the remark that it was really a handsome rifle or words to that effect, at which time Mr. Caster explained to me that he had bought himself a rifle to go deer hunting with, and he hadn't had one and he had been intending to buy one for a long time, and that he had also bought a .22 rifle for his boy. 
Mr. BALL. Did you handle the .22 rifle? 
Mr. TRULY. Not that I recall. 
Mr. BALL. You did see it, though? 
Mr. TRULY. I did see it. 
Mr. BALL. Was it out of the carton? 
Mr. TRULY. The carton was open, I believe, and I saw it. I don't recall picking it up or taking it out of the carton, but I could see it lying in the bottom part of the carton. 
Mr. BALL. And you did take the large rifle out? 
Mr. TRULY. And raised it to my shoulder and go through the motion of it, but not cocking it---just looking at it. 
Mr. BALL. Who else was there besides you and Mr. Caster? 
Mr. TRULY. Well, the only person I can recall being there was Mr. Shelley. 
Mr. BALL. And what is his position with the Texas School Book Depository? 
Mr. TRULY. He is manager of the miscellaneous department. 
Mr. BALL. Was this in the open warehouse? 
Mr. TRULY. Yes; right at the front. Mr. Caster had placed the cartons on the counter near the front door and that's where the rifles were when I them, and I picked one up out of the cartons. 
Mr. BALL. And were they employees of the Texas School Book company on the first floor at that time? 
Mr. TRULY. Yes; they were---as I recall the time that the boys had ably gone back to work and could have been walking around before they went in the shipping department. 
Mr. BALL. That would have been about what time of the day? 
Mr. TRULY. I'd say around 1 o'clock--very close to it. It could have a little after or a little before. The boys go back to lunch at 12:45, so I'm not too clear. 
Mr. BALL. What happened to these two rifles, Mr. Truly, that Mr. Caster got during the noon hour? 
Mr. TRULY. They were placed back in the carton and Mr. Caster carried them out of the lobby door with him. That's the last I saw them. 
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see them again? 
Mr. TRULY. Never--never. 
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see from that day until Friday, November 22, did you ever see those guns in the School Book Depository Building? 
Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I never did. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Joseph McBride

[Joseph McBride]

TESTIMONY OF WARREN CASTER

The testimony of Warren Caster was taken at 2 p.m., on May 14, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas,. Tex. by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel of the President's 
Commission. 
Mr. BALL. Mr. Caster, would you please stand up and take the oath? 
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. CASTER. I do. 
Mr. BALL. Will you state your full name, please? 
Mr. CASTER. Warren Caster. 
Mr. BALL. And where do you live? 
Mr. CASTER. 3338 Merrell. 
Mr. BALL. What is your business? 
Mr. CASTER. Textbook publishing. 
Mr. BALL. Are you with some company? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I am assistant manager for Southwestern Publishing Co. with offices at 411 Elm Street. 
Mr. BALL. You have offices in the Texas School Book Depository Building? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes. 
Mr. BALL. You rent those offices from the Texas School Book Depository? 
Mr. CASTER. The offices are furnished in connection with our work with the Depository. 
Mr. BALL. Will you tell me something about yourself, where you were born and where you were raised and educated? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I was born in New Mexico, educated in New Mexico, received my college degrees at New Mexico Highlands University at Las Vegas, N. Mex. I taught school in New Mexico from 1939 until I started to work with Southwestern Publishing Co. in 1952. There was a period of about 2 years that I spent in the U.S. Navy. 
Mr. BALL. And have you had your offices since 1952 in the Texas School Book Depository Building? 
Mr. CASTER. The offices have been in the Texas School Book Depository Building, but not in this particular building here. We have occupied three places since I have been with the Southwestern Publishing Co. 
Mr. BALL. Your office is on which floor? 
Mr. CASTER. Second floor. 
Mr. BALL. Did you ever bring any guns into the School Book Depository Building? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did. 
Mr. BALL. When? 
Mr. CASTER. I believe it was on Wednesday, November 20, during the noon hour. 
Mr. BALL. Whose guns were they? 
Mr. CASTER. They were my guns. 
Mr. BALL. And what kind of guns were they? 
Mr. CASTER. One gun was a Remington, single-shot, .22 rifle, and the other was a .30-06 sporterized Mauser. 
Mr. BALL. Who owned them? 
Mr. CASTER. I had just purchased them during the noon hour that day. 
Mr. BALL. Well, tell us about it---what were the circumstances of the purchase? 
Mr. CASTER. Well, I left the Depository during the noon hour and had lunch and, while out for the lunch hour, I stopped by Sanger-Harris sporting goods department to look for a rifle for my son's birthday---I beg your pardon, Christmas present--son's Christmas present, and while I was there I purchased the single-shot .22--single shot--and at the same time was looking at some deer rifles. I had, oh, for several years been thinking about buying a deer rifle and they happened to have one that I liked and I purchased the .30-06 while I was there. 
Mr. BALL. And did they box them up? 
Mr. CASTER. They were in cartons; yes. 
Mr. BALL. And then you went back to work, I guess? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I picked both rifles up in cartons just like they were, this was during the noon hour, and as I entered the Texas School Book Depository Building on my way up to the buying office, I stopped by Mr. Truly's office, and while I was there we examined the two rifles that I had purchased. 
Mr. BALL. Did you take them out of the carton? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did. 
Mr. BALL. Who was there besides you and Mr. Truly?

Mr. CASTER. Well, I'm not really sure who was there. I think you were there, Bill, and Mr. Shelley was there---and Mr. Roy Truly. The only people that I know about, in any event, were there; there were workers there at the time, but I'm not quite sure how many. I couldn't even tell you their names. I don't know the Texas School Book Depository workers there in the shipping department 
Mr. BALL. In that office, though, Truly's office, how many were there? 
Mr. CASTER. We weren't in Mr. Truly's immediate office, we were just there over the counter. 
Mr. BALL. In the warehouse? 
Mr. CASTER. We were there in the hall--just right there over the counter in front of the warehouse; that's right. 
Mr. BALL. And did you take the guns out of the carton? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did. They were removed from the carton. 
Mr. BALL. Did you handle them? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did. 
Mr. BALL. Did anybody else handle the guns? 
Mr. CASTER. Mr. Truly handled them and I'm not sure whether Mr. Shelley had the guns in his hands or not; I'm not positive. 
Mr. BALL. How long a time were you there with the guns, and by time, just estimate it. 
Mr. CASTER Well, it couldn't have been more than to minutes. 
Mr. BALL. What did you do with the guns after that? 
Mr. CASTER. I put them back in the carton and carried them up to my office. Mr. BALL. And what did you do with them after that? 
Mr. CASTER. I left at the end of the working day, oh, around 4 o'clock and took the guns in the cartons and carried them and put them in my car and carried them home. 
Mr. BALL. Did you ever have them back in the Texas School Book Depository Building thereafter? 
Mr. CASTER. They have never been back to the Texas School Book Depository Building since then. 
Mr. BALL. Where were those guns on November 22, 1963? 
Mr. CASTER. The guns were in my home, 3338 Merrell Road. 
Mr. BALL. I think that's all. This will be written up and you will be asked to come in and it will be submitted to you for signature and you can correct it if you wish. 
Mr. CASTER. That's all right. 
Mr. BALL. Any corrections you make, make them in pen and ink and initial it and sign it. I want to thank you very much for giving this testimony. 
Mr. CASTER. I thank you very much.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Joseph McBride

[John Butler]

15 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

John, the source was Seymour Weitzman himself. He told his psychiatrist that he found a spent 7.65 shell in the bushes outside the TSBD. I'm not sure if he told him specifically where but that was his story. I'm sure the interview with the psychiatrist is on line. I believe I saw it some years ago on Denis Morrissette's site. There is in evidence a small envelope marked "7.65 shell" but it is empty. I believe the two are connected.

Gil, 

Thanks for this info.  I didn't know there was bushes around the TSBD.  Trees, yes.  That made me wonder about the location.  That would be important for shooting from one side of the TSBD or another (east vs west).  Weitzman said a number of interesting things.  One (from an internet video) thing he said was that he found two Cuban men waiting in his home.  This induced fear with the knowledge that strange things had happened to JFKA witnesses.  It is a possible reason he changed his testimony concerning the 7.65mm Mauser.  Other sources claim he was a knowing participant in the assassination.  His job was to "discover" the rifle.  All in all, Weitzman is an interesting character.  

[Steve Thomas]

All I know is that the people who identified the rifle as a Mauser were all Sheriff's Deputies; Eugene Boone, Seymour Weitizman, Roger Craig.

Once the Dallas City Police Department personnel arrived on the scene, the County Sheriff Department Deputies were told to leave and go back to work, and the Mauser became a Carcano.

Steve Thomas

[David Boylan]

One of the long unexplained issues to me was just how did the FBI get Gerry Hemming's rifle so quickly? And have it fingerprinted? It was a Johnson 30.06 same caliber as a 7.65.

showDoc.html (maryferrell.org)

showDoc.html (maryferrell.org)

[Gil Jesus]

You could argue that Weitzman may have jumped the gun so to speak and identified the rifle as a 7.65 Mauser because he found the empty shell outside the building or you could say that he called it right. Either way, he was in no way the only one who identified the rifle as a Mauser. Eugene Boone also signed an affidavit identifying the rifle as a Mauser and Roger Craig was adamant for the rest of his life that the rifle was a Mauser. Too many witnesses for it to be untrue, plus police officers are trained to be SPECIFIC and CORRECT when making judgement calls.

Something Arnold Rowland said about the man in the window that struck me:

Mr. SPECTER - In what manner was the rifle being held by the man whom you observed?
Mr. ROWLAND - The way he was standing it would have been in a position such as port arms in military terms.
Mr. SPECTER - When you say port arms you have positioned your left hand with the left elbow of your hand being about level with your shoulder and your right hand.--
Mr. ROWLAND - Not quite level with my shoulder, and the right hand being lower on the trigger of the stock.
Mr. SPECTER - So the waist of the imaginary rifle you would be holding would cross your body at about a 45-degree angle.
Mr. ROWLAND - That is correct.
Mr. SPECTER - How long was the rifle held in that position?
Mr. ROWLAND - During the entire time that I saw him there.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you see him hold it in any other position?
Mr. ROWLAND - No, I didn't.

Rowland described a position that was military. There WERE military intelligence people in Dealey Plaza and I'm trying to figure out what they were doing there if some unknown authority had ordered their commander to stand down, like he testified.

 

 

[Gil Jesus]

17 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

TESTIMONY OF WARREN CASTER

The testimony of Warren Caster was taken at 2 p.m., on May 14, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas,. Tex. by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel of the President's 
Commission. 
Mr. BALL. Mr. Caster, would you please stand up and take the oath? 
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. CASTER. I do. 
Mr. BALL. Will you state your full name, please? 
Mr. CASTER. Warren Caster. 
Mr. BALL. And where do you live? 
Mr. CASTER. 3338 Merrell. 
Mr. BALL. What is your business? 
Mr. CASTER. Textbook publishing. 
Mr. BALL. Are you with some company? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I am assistant manager for Southwestern Publishing Co. with offices at 411 Elm Street. 
Mr. BALL. You have offices in the Texas School Book Depository Building? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes. 
Mr. BALL. You rent those offices from the Texas School Book Depository? 
Mr. CASTER. The offices are furnished in connection with our work with the Depository. 
Mr. BALL. Will you tell me something about yourself, where you were born and where you were raised and educated? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I was born in New Mexico, educated in New Mexico, received my college degrees at New Mexico Highlands University at Las Vegas, N. Mex. I taught school in New Mexico from 1939 until I started to work with Southwestern Publishing Co. in 1952. There was a period of about 2 years that I spent in the U.S. Navy. 
Mr. BALL. And have you had your offices since 1952 in the Texas School Book Depository Building? 
Mr. CASTER. The offices have been in the Texas School Book Depository Building, but not in this particular building here. We have occupied three places since I have been with the Southwestern Publishing Co. 
Mr. BALL. Your office is on which floor? 
Mr. CASTER. Second floor. 
Mr. BALL. Did you ever bring any guns into the School Book Depository Building? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did. 
Mr. BALL. When? 
Mr. CASTER. I believe it was on Wednesday, November 20, during the noon hour. 
Mr. BALL. Whose guns were they? 
Mr. CASTER. They were my guns. 
Mr. BALL. And what kind of guns were they? 
Mr. CASTER. One gun was a Remington, single-shot, .22 rifle, and the other was a .30-06 sporterized Mauser. 
Mr. BALL. Who owned them? 
Mr. CASTER. I had just purchased them during the noon hour that day. 
Mr. BALL. Well, tell us about it---what were the circumstances of the purchase? 
Mr. CASTER. Well, I left the Depository during the noon hour and had lunch and, while out for the lunch hour, I stopped by Sanger-Harris sporting goods department to look for a rifle for my son's birthday---I beg your pardon, Christmas present--son's Christmas present, and while I was there I purchased the single-shot .22--single shot--and at the same time was looking at some deer rifles. I had, oh, for several years been thinking about buying a deer rifle and they happened to have one that I liked and I purchased the .30-06 while I was there. 
Mr. BALL. And did they box them up? 
Mr. CASTER. They were in cartons; yes. 
Mr. BALL. And then you went back to work, I guess? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I picked both rifles up in cartons just like they were, this was during the noon hour, and as I entered the Texas School Book Depository Building on my way up to the buying office, I stopped by Mr. Truly's office, and while I was there we examined the two rifles that I had purchased. 
Mr. BALL. Did you take them out of the carton? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did. 
Mr. BALL. Who was there besides you and Mr. Truly?

Mr. CASTER. Well, I'm not really sure who was there. I think you were there, Bill, and Mr. Shelley was there---and Mr. Roy Truly. The only people that I know about, in any event, were there; there were workers there at the time, but I'm not quite sure how many. I couldn't even tell you their names. I don't know the Texas School Book Depository workers there in the shipping department 
Mr. BALL. In that office, though, Truly's office, how many were there? 
Mr. CASTER. We weren't in Mr. Truly's immediate office, we were just there over the counter. 
Mr. BALL. In the warehouse? 
Mr. CASTER. We were there in the hall--just right there over the counter in front of the warehouse; that's right. 
Mr. BALL. And did you take the guns out of the carton? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did. They were removed from the carton. 
Mr. BALL. Did you handle them? 
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did. 
Mr. BALL. Did anybody else handle the guns? 
Mr. CASTER. Mr. Truly handled them and I'm not sure whether Mr. Shelley had the guns in his hands or not; I'm not positive. 
Mr. BALL. How long a time were you there with the guns, and by time, just estimate it. 
Mr. CASTER Well, it couldn't have been more than to minutes. 
Mr. BALL. What did you do with the guns after that? 
Mr. CASTER. I put them back in the carton and carried them up to my office. Mr. BALL. And what did you do with them after that? 
Mr. CASTER. I left at the end of the working day, oh, around 4 o'clock and took the guns in the cartons and carried them and put them in my car and carried them home. 
Mr. BALL. Did you ever have them back in the Texas School Book Depository Building thereafter? 
Mr. CASTER. They have never been back to the Texas School Book Depository Building since then. 
Mr. BALL. Where were those guns on November 22, 1963? 
Mr. CASTER. The guns were in my home, 3338 Merrell Road. 
Mr. BALL. I think that's all. This will be written up and you will be asked to come in and it will be submitted to you for signature and you can correct it if you wish. 
Mr. CASTER. That's all right. 
Mr. BALL. Any corrections you make, make them in pen and ink and initial it and sign it. I want to thank you very much for giving this testimony. 
Mr. CASTER. I thank you very much.

Mr. McBride, thank you. Notice that Caster says in his testimony that the rifle he bought was a 30.06 sporterized Mauser. I'm willing to bet that that was a sporterized 7.65 Argentine Mauser converted to a 30.06, just like Arnold Rowland described.

[Benjamin Cole]

23 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said:

Mr. McBride, thank you. Notice that Caster says in his testimony that the rifle he bought was a 30.06 sporterized Mauser. I'm willing to bet that that was a sporterized 7.65 Argentine Mauser converted to a 30.06, just like Arnold Rowland described.

My recollection is that there were offices of four publishers on the fourth floor, Caster's being one. Does anyone know if these offices were searched after the JFKA? They nearly become invisible, except for the Caster episode. 

Could someone descend a couple light of stairs and go into a publisher's office?  Could a desk be outfitted with a false bottom? 

A former employee of Jack Ruby worked in one of those offices. 

[Tony Krome]

25 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

My recollection is that there were offices of four publishers on the fourth floor, Caster's being one.

Caster's office was on the 2nd floor. The door to these offices were locked at the time of the shooting. There was a person on the phone, inside the office, immediately after the shooting. Hine tried calling out to that person, knocked and shook the door, but they would not respond.

[Ron Bulman]

It should be noted in this conversation that Wietzman was the former owner of a sporting goods store that sold hunting rifles.  Where he worked hands on as the manager as well as the owner.  Once again if I remember correctly.  He should well have recognized a 30-06/mauser as it was possibly the most popular higher caliber hunting rifle in the western United States at the time.  As opposed to the shorter range 30-30 lever action "saddle gun".