The 3 Carcanos

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Caster's office was on the 2nd floor. The door to these offices were locked at the time of the shooting. There was a person on the phone, inside the office, immediately after the shooting. Hine tried calling out to that person, knocked and shook the door, but they would not respond.

Tony K.--

Thanks for the correction and clarification. Who was Hine?

 

 

[Tony Krome]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Tony K.--

Thanks for the correction and clarification. Who was Hine?

 

 

Geneva Hine, Credit desk, 2nd floor. 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Tony Krome said:

Geneva Hine, Credit desk, 2nd floor. 

Thanks...here is one for you, from Victoria Elizabeth Adams, statement: 

 

"I am a Caucasian female, born February 8, 1941 at San Francisco, California. I presently reside at 4906 Wenonah, Dallas, Texas. I am employed as an Office Service Representative by Scott, Foreman and Cannery, Room 401, Texas School Book Depository...411 Elm Street, Dallas....and was employed employed on Nov. 22, 1963, the day President John Kennedy was assassinated...."

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf

So...there also non-TSBD offices on the fourth floor, as indicated by Room 401 for Scott, Foreman. Also see statement by Yola D. Hopson, who also worked for Scott, Foreman on the fourth floor.  

So....it is possible that someone fired at JFK, then only descended two flights of stairs, and went into a non-TSBD office.

[Tony Krome]

17 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

So....it is possible that someone fired at JFK, then only descended two flights of stairs, and went into a non-TSBD office.

If that's you're train of thought, it's possible, but there are obstacles to overcome.

Descending stairs in hard sole shoes generates noise. There was a man who testified he was at the 5th level north/west corner staircase area at the time of the shooting. This man testified he did not use the stairs after the shooting, he used the elevator. The elevators were both on level 5 according to Truly when he peered up the elevator shaft in company with Baker.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

55 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

If that's you're train of thought, it's possible, but there are obstacles to overcome.

Descending stairs in hard sole shoes generates noise. There was a man who testified he was at the 5th level north/west corner staircase area at the time of the shooting. This man testified he did not use the stairs after the shooting, he used the elevator. The elevators were both on level 5 according to Truly when he peered up the elevator shaft in company with Baker.

 

My best guess is LHO fired at JFK once and intentionally missed, and ran down the stairs to the second floor where he met Marion Baker and Truly. Others did the real shooting, and may have been in the TSBD, or the roof of Dal-Tex building, and of course by the Grassy Knoll area.  

But if the offices on the second and fourth floors were not searched after the JFKA...that opens up all sorts of questions, about places to hide people and weapons. Just a possibility. 

If LHO fired no shots that day, then someone else did on floor 6 of the TSBD, and no one ever saw them. Where did the actual shooter(s), who would be strangers, go? 

 

[Steve Thomas]

17 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

All I know is that the people who identified the rifle as a Mauser were all Sheriff's Deputies; Eugene Boone, Seymour Weitizman, Roger Craig.

Once the Dallas City Police Department personnel arrived on the scene, the County Sheriff Department Deputies were told to leave and go back to work, and the Mauser became a Carcano.

Steve Thomas

You know, it never occurred to me before; but I don't think that there are any affidavits from these Sheriff's Deputies in the Dallas Police Department Archives. There are Sheriff's Reports, but no formal reports from the Dallas City Police Department that they were interviewed as material witnesses.

I wonder why.

Steve Thomas

[Tony Krome]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Where did the actual shooter(s), who would be strangers, go? 

No-one saw strangers, except for one old man that entered the ground floor for a leak. What stranger would risk shooting from the 6th floor and hope to escape unnoticed? That plan, IMO, would never be considered in the first place. Until you find evidence of a stranger, you must consider that there were none.

[Benjamin Cole]

6 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

No-one saw strangers, except for one old man that entered the ground floor for a leak. What stranger would risk shooting from the 6th floor and hope to escape unnoticed? That plan, IMO, would never be considered in the first place. Until you find evidence of a stranger, you must consider that there were none.

Well..maybe. Suppose they entered the night before, but after the building had closed up for the night. 

If there were no strangers...then who did the shooting? LHO? But he could not have fired a single-shot rifle as rapidly as required to do all the shooting. 

[John Butler]

4 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

My best guess is LHO fired at JFK once and intentionally missed, and ran down the stairs to the second floor where he met Marion Baker and Truly. Others did the real shooting, and may have been in the TSBD, or the roof of Dal-Tex building, and of course by the Grassy Knoll area.  

But if the offices on the second and fourth floors were not searched after the JFKA...that opens up all sorts of questions, about places to hide people and weapons. Just a possibility. 

If LHO fired no shots that day, then someone else did on floor 6 of the TSBD, and no one ever saw them. Where did the actual shooter(s), who would be strangers, go? 

 

There were many witnesses, about a dozen?, who were in the TSBD on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th floors.  Most of those witnesses did not say they heard shots coming from the 6th floor or any place in the building.  Most said the shots came from the SW of the building generally in the area of the Grassy Knoll and Triple Underpass.  Only Harold Norman was consistent in saying shots came from the 6th floor Sniper's Nest above him.

I've place red x's in what I think is the area of Caster/Southwest Publishing Co.  Are they correct?

If you look at one of Mary Moorman's Polaroids you will see that the trees cover the west side of the building concealing the windows.  The trees were not that tall in 1963.  It is an alteration of the photo.  Why?  Perhaps the answer is covering up people in office windows on the various floors on the west face.  If Caster/Southwest Publishing Co. had offices on the west face of the TSBD, that location would be a good place to shoot from.  That is if they could see above the trees on the west side.

 

[Denny Zartman]

Wouldn't believing that the rifle first found and mistakenly identified not just as a German Mauser but one of a specific caliber also mean believing that the Dallas Police couldn't read?

 

[John Butler]

1 hour ago, Denny Zartman said:

Wouldn't believing that the rifle first found and mistakenly identified not just as a German Mauser but one of a specific caliber also mean believing that the Dallas Police couldn't read?

 

Each model of the Carcano and the Mauser are a little different in appearance.  However, one can easily distinguish one rifle from the other.

Quickly noticed features include a difference in magazines, sights, both front and rear, and stock configuration.

I didn't see as much information stamped on the Carcano as one sees on a Mauser.  

That might be due to wear or cheaper metal than the Mauser.  I did see info stamped on the other side of the Carcano, but not as extensive as the Mauser.

I believe Weitzman, Boone, and Craig knew what they saw, a 7.65 MM Mauser.  And, those who changed their testimony did that through loyalty, or perhaps fear and coercion.

[Jonathan Cohen]

2 hours ago, John Butler said:

If you look at one of Mary Moorman's Polaroids you will see that the trees cover the west side of the building concealing the windows.  The trees were not that tall in 1963.  It is an alteration of the photo.  Why?  Perhaps the answer is covering up people in office windows on the various floors on the west face.  If Caster/Southwest Publishing Co. had offices on the west face of the TSBD, that location would be a good place to shoot from.  That is if they could see above the trees on the west side.

As has been covered on this forum over and over again, the Moorman photos were never altered. Just for fun, I'd love for you to explain to us how and when the evil plotters painted trees onto a Polaroid a few inches in size -- an alteration that apparently went undetected until you discovered it?

Edited June 23, 2021 by Jonathan Cohen
word choice

[James DiEugenio]

If there were no strangers in the building then who did Baker see on the 3rd or 4th floor as he describes in his first day affidavit?

[Tony Krome]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

If there were no strangers in the building then who did Baker see on the 3rd or 4th floor as he describes in his first day affidavit?

Truly was with Baker. Truly did not report an encounter with any strangers.

[Gil Jesus]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

If there were no strangers in the building then who did Baker see on the 3rd or 4th floor as he describes in his first day affidavit?

Jim, wasn't there a military intelligence guy, I think his name was James Powell, who was trapped in the building when the Dallas Police sealed it off ? Seems to me he would be a stranger, wouldn't he ?