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Offering new findings on Wed., August 4-7 pm PDT at Project JFK, on a live zoom...and a question: Is this man Ruby?


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I am going public with some new findings on the JFK case on Wed - August 4, 4-7 pm PDT at Project JFK, on a live zoom - I hope you will join us.
 
The materials will be posted on Project JFK by tomorrow so you can review them in advance - my presentation will be in 20-minute segments on six different topics so you can pick and choose - and the sessions will be videotaped so you can view them at your discretion if you can't be there live.
 
I am puzzled with one point that I want to discuss here - I asked John Armstrong about his note asking researchers to review these photos that depict Jack Ruby and DPD reserve officer Kenneth Croy and Ruby.  I am unsure about either one.
 
Below, I post a post-arrest photo of Ruby at the bottom that just doesn't seem to match.   Your thoughts on Ruby?
 
I asked John about Ruby and Croy (Croy is much tougher to ID), and here is our correspondence to date:
 
 
image.png

 

(In the photo at the top of this post - we can see Ruby's prominent nose but no 2 o'clock sideburn.)  

John wrote:  

This YouTube/CNN video, less than a minute long, shows Kenneth Croy in a white hat and police uniform standing next to Ruby in police headquarters just a second or two before Oswald appears.  Croy is the rightmost figure in the shot immediately below, which was taken at the 12-second mark of the video.  Note how Croy seems to stand back from the action as Ruby shoots Oswald.  Ruby can be seen in the video standing next to reporters in the middle image. It is clear that Ruby did not "run by me [Croy] at a pretty good clip." Ruby did not run through the reporters "like a fullback went through a line."

Croy_1.jpg

Croy_2.jpg

Croy_3.jpg

(John Armstrong makes these IDs - I am unsure about Croy, and the Ruby figure has a fedora and a prominent nose but an oddly-cut sideburn pointing to 2 o'clock.)

John continues:  On December 1, 1963, Croy gave an affidavit in which he said, "I saw a man running into the crowd in a crouch.  At that moment I reached for this individual and touched his coat tail attempting to stop him.  I saw him run right up to Oswald ...."   

I asked John "How did you determine this man was Croy, who I agree was nearby and not a good actor?  Is it possible he was Patrick Dean, who was also nearby?   Photo evidence is really tricky."  

image.png

 

I also sent John the picture above, with this note:  "Denis Morissette id's this man as Patrick Dean, who was also standing near Ruby.  Re Ruby - I do agree that it seems unlikely for two men to be wearing the same fedora."

John's response:

Dean, according to his WC testimony, was not standing near Ruby..........
 
Mr. GRIFFIN - Now, as I understand from your statement, and interrupt me if I am incorrect, when you saw Ruby shoot Oswald, you moved toward the struggle and then Ruby was taken into the jail office, and did you follow them on in?

Mr. DEAN - Yes, sir. I ran immediately, jumped over these cars, or one of them, jumped over the hood of it, over the top of it, and they were dragging--Ruby and several detectives that were subduing him were about at the door, or [-indicating]-

Mr. GRIFFIN - I had just as soon not have you mark at this point.
 
Look at the attachment that I sent to you (see above). Easy to see that the man standing next to Ruby in the video was Croy (according to Croy's WC testimony) and not Dean (who said he had to jump over a car as officers were subduing Ruby). When I reviewed many of the videos taken of the Ruby shooting, I seem to remember watching Croy as he hurriedly left the area. The one fact that distinguished Croy (as a reserve officer) from other DPD officers is that reserve officers were not allowed to carry/wear a gun.
 

Croy's WC testimony pretty much convinced me that he was "most likely" either accompanied Ruby into the basement or allowed him to enter the basement. It is also worth noting that Croy was not listed among the officers present when Ruby shot LHO. Why?

(Note:  John sent me some more interesting pictures of the officer he believes is Croy - they are pretty persuasive - too big for me to post on this note, I will figure out how to shrink it down.)

Still curious about the man he believes is Ruby - I will follow up with him, and would appreciate any comments.

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9 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:
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Still curious about the man he believes is Ruby - I will follow up with him, and would appreciate any comments.
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Bill, it has been mooted on FB that it is not Ruby but FBI agent James Bookhout that shot Oswald!?!  Twilight zone. 😵

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Sorry for a bit of thread-jacking. Couldn't resist. I appreciate knowing of your project jfk pending announcement, Bill.

In No More Silence, by Larry Sneed, you can find an account of Bookhout's behavior which bids fair to be at the same time as implausible and as deranged as him being a Ruby imposter triggerman.

According to Prayer Man website page devoted to Bookhout, here

Bookhout asked L.G. Montgomery what happened in the basement. L.G. Montgomery confronted him.

Quote

S.A. Bookhout asked me, “What did you do?” I told him, “You were right there, Bookhout. We handcuffed Oswald; we walked around to the elevator, got on the elevator to go down. Where’d you go? You were right there with us?” He got a little funny and said, “I walked back to the squad room and turned up the squawk box.” I said, “Why?” I don’t remember the exact wording of his response, but it was something to the effect–“to hear the shooting. Didn’t you know that the chief had received a call during the night that Oswald was going to be shot?” “Hell, no,” I said,“ I didn’t!” I was pretty angry at the time.

 

Edited by George Govus
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13 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:

(Note:  John sent me some more interesting pictures of the officer he believes is Croy - they are pretty persuasive - too big for me to post on this note, I will figure out how to shrink it down.)

Still curious about the man he believes is Ruby - I will follow up with him, and would appreciate any comments.

Good luck with your presentations, Bill.  I look forward to reviewing them ASAP.

I think the man pictured above is Ruby, but that seems less significant than the ID of Croy.  Ruby, after all, clearly emerged from that general area immediately before he shot Oswald.  It’s pretty undeniable that he was there!  Kenneth Croy, otoh, hasn’t been researched nearly as well.

John A. became suspicious about Sgt. Croy’s potential witnessing of the assassination of J.D. Tippit (and his potential involvement in the larger plot to set up “Oswald” for both assassinations) when he read Croy’s sworn alibi to account for his time for an hour or so after the JFK hit.

In the chaos after JFK was shot, at a time when DPD was calling in even off-duty personnel, Croy said he asked several Dallas cops if he could be of any help, was told no, and then went to his parents’ house to change his clothes and then on to Austin’s Barbecue to have lunch with his estranged wife.  This was less than an hour after JFK was shot!

Croy couldn’t remember who told him he wasn’t needed, but after that alleged lunch with his wife, remarkably, he became the first DPD member to arrive at 10th and Patton, where Tippit was shot.  Croy said he saw Tippit lifted into the ambulance.  But he may have been there even earlier.  Helen Markham probably saw him, and it was probably Croy young Virginia Davis saw when, arriving at the Tippit murder scene seconds after the hit, she said a policemen was  “already there.”

On our website, John A. wrote:

Quote

….researcher Jones Harris arranged for an interview with the first police officer at 10th & Patton, Sgt. Kenneth Croy. For the first time Sgt. Croy was asked what he knew about the 2nd wallet, and told Harris that an "unknown witness" gave him gave the wallet, which he then gave to Westbrook. It should not surprise anyone to learn there is, and never has been, any evidence to support or verify Croy's claim. Not one witness, not one ambulance driver, not one neighbor, and not one bystander nor anyone else saw a wallet lying on the street, in Tippit's car or anywhere. 

Capt. Westbrook and Sgt. Croy both gave hard to believe accounts of their time for more than an hour after the assassination of JFK.  Could they have been the two men in the squad car (#207?) that Earlene Roberts said honked in front of her rooming house?
 

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On 8/1/2021 at 7:08 PM, Bill Simpich said:
cleardot.gif
I am going public with some new findings on the JFK case on Wed - August 4, 4-7 pm PDT at Project JFK, on a live zoom - I hope you will join us.
 
The materials will be posted on Project JFK by tomorrow so you can review them in advance - my presentation will be in 20-minute segments on six different topics so you can pick and choose - and the sessions will be videotaped so you can view them at your discretion if you can't be there live.
 
I am puzzled with one point that I want to discuss here - I asked John Armstrong about his note asking researchers to review these photos that depict Jack Ruby and DPD reserve officer Kenneth Croy and Ruby.  I am unsure about either one.
 
Below, I post a post-arrest photo of Ruby at the bottom that just doesn't seem to match.   Your thoughts on Ruby?
 
I asked John about Ruby and Croy (Croy is much tougher to ID), and here is our correspondence to date:
 
 
image.png

 

(In the photo at the top of this post - we can see Ruby's prominent nose but no 2 o'clock sideburn.)  

John wrote:  

This YouTube/CNN video, less than a minute long, shows Kenneth Croy in a white hat and police uniform standing next to Ruby in police headquarters just a second or two before Oswald appears.  Croy is the rightmost figure in the shot immediately below, which was taken at the 12-second mark of the video.  Note how Croy seems to stand back from the action as Ruby shoots Oswald.  Ruby can be seen in the video standing next to reporters in the middle image. It is clear that Ruby did not "run by me [Croy] at a pretty good clip." Ruby did not run through the reporters "like a fullback went through a line."

Croy_1.jpg

Croy_2.jpg

Croy_3.jpg

(John Armstrong makes these IDs - I am unsure about Croy, and the Ruby figure has a fedora and a prominent nose but an oddly-cut sideburn pointing to 2 o'clock.)

John continues:  On December 1, 1963, Croy gave an affidavit in which he said, "I saw a man running into the crowd in a crouch.  At that moment I reached for this individual and touched his coat tail attempting to stop him.  I saw him run right up to Oswald ...."   

I asked John "How did you determine this man was Croy, who I agree was nearby and not a good actor?  Is it possible he was Patrick Dean, who was also nearby?   Photo evidence is really tricky."  

image.png

 

I also sent John the picture above, with this note:  "Denis Morissette id's this man as Patrick Dean, who was also standing near Ruby.  Re Ruby - I do agree that it seems unlikely for two men to be wearing the same fedora."

John's response:

Dean, according to his WC testimony, was not standing near Ruby..........
 
Mr. GRIFFIN - Now, as I understand from your statement, and interrupt me if I am incorrect, when you saw Ruby shoot Oswald, you moved toward the struggle and then Ruby was taken into the jail office, and did you follow them on in?

Mr. DEAN - Yes, sir. I ran immediately, jumped over these cars, or one of them, jumped over the hood of it, over the top of it, and they were dragging--Ruby and several detectives that were subduing him were about at the door, or [-indicating]-

Mr. GRIFFIN - I had just as soon not have you mark at this point.
 
Look at the attachment that I sent to you (see above). Easy to see that the man standing next to Ruby in the video was Croy (according to Croy's WC testimony) and not Dean (who said he had to jump over a car as officers were subduing Ruby). When I reviewed many of the videos taken of the Ruby shooting, I seem to remember watching Croy as he hurriedly left the area. The one fact that distinguished Croy (as a reserve officer) from other DPD officers is that reserve officers were not allowed to carry/wear a gun.
 

Croy's WC testimony pretty much convinced me that he was "most likely" either accompanied Ruby into the basement or allowed him to enter the basement. It is also worth noting that Croy was not listed among the officers present when Ruby shot LHO. Why?

(Note:  John sent me some more interesting pictures of the officer he believes is Croy - they are pretty persuasive - too big for me to post on this note, I will figure out how to shrink it down.)

Still curious about the man he believes is Ruby - I will follow up with him, and would appreciate any comments.

cleardot.gif

 

 

 

Why are "Ruby's" eyes blacked out?  Those are not shadows or sunglasses.

Officer Patrick Dean jumping over cars is questionable.  Some of his other testimony is a bit sketchy if I remember right.

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If Ruby charged through the press line like a football running back, he used big William "Blackie" Harrison as his open running room providing offensive lineman.

Harrison is right there in front of Ruby and Croy is right next to Harrison on his right in the seconds before and during Ruby's charge.

The worst security actions on the part of Harrison and Croy. As Oswald is being walked toward them, instead of watching the press crowd behind them ( where Harrison would have immediately spotted out-of-place Ruby )  all they are doing is looking at Oswald.

And here again we have some obscure police reservist nobody who just happens to be right there in the thick of two of the top three killing events of that weekend. Tippit's murder scene and Oswald's in the DPD basement.

Surprised Croy wasn't also one of the officers wrestling with Oswald in the movie theater take down!

 

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There are new documents that no one I know has looked at yet - released in 2013 by the City of Dallas - the 800 page investigation of the "operational security" of the LHO transfer.  For the first time that I know of, we have possession of the actual 100-plus exhibits and the investigative report in one place.

I call it the Warren Report of the Dallas police.

Look who signed it - instead of Allen Dulles and friends, it's Pinky Westbrook, forgery squad chief OA Jones, and the guy who failed to get the name of the witness who offered the phony LHO ID (5'10"/165) at 12:45 pm 11/22 - Herbert Sawyer.

Look at this diagram - and John Armstrong sent me a better-defined copy in color, which I will share when I figure out how to get under the 200 KB limit.  (How to compress it?)   

Look at the photos of Ruby hiding between Blackie Harrison and reserve officer Kenneth Croy that John sent me - contrary to Croy's story, he is not "running between them" - you can see them at... 

croydean.docx

Look at this listing of the witnesses and their locations.

It's going to take months, maybe years, to digest all this new information.

I am going to present on this between 5:30-6 pm PDT tomorrow, August 4, on the free zoom conference at Project JFK - sign on here if you want to join us, the documents and the recording will be posted if you can't make it at that time.  (I'm doing six segments total on different issues between 4-7 pm PDT).

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On 8/1/2021 at 7:08 PM, Bill Simpich said:
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Croy's WC testimony pretty much convinced me that he was "most likely" either accompanied Ruby into the basement or allowed him to enter the basement. It is also worth noting that Croy was not listed among the officers present when Ruby shot LHO. Why?

 

 
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Bill,

 

On pages 148 and 149 of the documents you provided is an Affidavit filed by Kenneth Croy on December 1, 1963 concerning his actions on the 24th of November.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=217812#relPageId=148&search=%22key_to%20personnel%22

In his Affidavit, Croy says that Ruby was standing to his left. There is only one white-hatted policeman standing between Ruby and the wall. That has to be Kenneth Croy. I do not know why his name doesn't appear on a map.

Steve Thomas

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On 8/2/2021 at 11:59 PM, Tony Krome said:

The picture below is one I created a while back. Seems to show different sideburns. The one on the right is Friday night at the DPD with Basement Ruby's hat and strange eye shadow superimposed.

ruby-compare-hat.png

In the photo on the left It looks like there's some kind of glare on the side of Ruby's face that hides part of the sideburn. But what such a glare could be I don't know, unless it's from some kind of lighting in the basement.

 

 

 

 

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Steve - On this diagram, Croy is #21, Blackie Harrison is #45, Jack Ruby is #90, and was between these two officers in front of the rail that he was supposed to be behind.  

If you go thru Croy's multiple statements in late Nov-early Dec, you notice that he doesn't admit knowing Ruby in this first interviews, then he gradually admits it.  Why didn't he make him at least go behind the rail, or kick him out altogether as not-a-member-of-the-media? 

That question, of course, is never asked.  Croy, Harrison, and the other cops let a bunch of reporters get in front of the rail.   That was part of the flanking maneuver that allowed Ruby to get right in front of Oswald and shoot him.

When was the "all clear" signal given?  When Ruby was in place.  Not before.  All of us need to get much more serious about this event and give it "the electron microscope" treatment John Newman talks about and many of us are good at when we are looking at Dealey Plaza.

My version of the diagram gives the broader view going back to Ruby's possible footpaths after he leaves Western Union and walks into the police station. 

In John Armstrong's better-defined colorized diagram, you can see Ruby's alternate foot paths more clearly, the placement of the rails and how many people were improperly in front of them, and much more,

Can someone help me figure out how to compress John's color diagram to below 200 KB so I can post it?   I tried compressing it but didn't do it right.

 

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Thanks for the assist, David!  When you use this chart - 

Look at this listing of the witnesses, the cameras, and their locations.   

You can also see the rails on the north side of the ramp that the newsmen (and Ruby) were supposed to be behind.   The big TV cameras were stationed there.   If they had stayed behind the rail, Ruby could have never got hsi shot off.

And then this diagram provides a little more information about the numbers that aren't legible on the color version, plus the location of Western Union (to the north).  Again, Croy is #21, Blackie Harrison is #45, Jack Ruby is #90, and was between these two officers in front of the rail that he was supposed to be behind.  For LHO, x marks the spot, with Jim Leavelle #63 and LC Graves #40 on either side of him.

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6 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

In the photo on the left It looks like there's some kind of glare on the side of Ruby's face that hides part of the sideburn. But what such a glare could be I don't know, unless it's from some kind of lighting in the basement.

 

 

 

 

The difference in the ears - that distortion probably accounts for the sideburn angle too 

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