The CIA Versus the Kennedys

[Douglas Caddy]

 

The CIA Versus the Kennedys – The Future of Freedom Foundation (fff.org)

[Guest]

What a gem @Douglas Caddy thank you very much for sharing. 
 

A very interesting angle here lads.

@Joe Bauer @Paul Brancato @W. Niederhut @Benjamin Cole @Dennis Berube

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Chris Barnard

[Benjamin Cole]

Yes, I was unaware of the earlier hostilities between the CIA and the Kennedys. Fascinating. 

Also, ex-President Truman, in the near-immediate aftermath of the JFKA, penned an editorial that the CIA operational powers should be eliminated. The timing is interesting. 

 

“There is something about the way the CIA has been functioning that is casting a shadow over our historic position and I feel that we need to correct it.” President Harry S. Truman wrote those words in an op-ed for the Washington Post on Dec.22, 1963, entitled “Limit CIA Role to Intelligence.”

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

Maybe worth noting:

 

https://www.anewcivilwar.com/post/what-does-transitioning-from-republic-to-empire-tell-us-about-america-s-future

 

[Denny Zartman]

Nations Security does seem to be the refrain that echoes around this case whenever examining potential suspects and their motivations. Dulles is often at or near the top of many lists of suspects, and I have no real reason to doubt his involvement.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Yes, I was unaware of the earlier hostilities between the CIA and the Kennedys. Fascinating. 

Also, ex-President Truman, in the near-immediate aftermath of the JFKA, penned an editorial that the CIA operational powers should be eliminated. The timing is interesting. 

 

“There is something about the way the CIA has been functioning that is casting a shadow over our historic position and I feel that we need to correct it.” President Harry S. Truman wrote those words in an op-ed for the Washington Post on Dec.22, 1963, entitled “Limit CIA Role to Intelligence.”

 

 

I thought Truman was an absolute ignoramus, he opened pandora’s box but, he almost redeems himself here. He died broke too didn’t he?! That says something. Dulles then then went to visit him to suppress the damage and seek a retraction didn’t he?!

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Chris Barnard said:

I thought Truman was an absolute ignoramus, he opened pandora’s box but, he almost redeems himself here. He died broke too didn’t he?! That says something. Dulles then then went to visit him to suppress the damage and seek a retraction didn’t he?!

Verily, Dulles actually visited him in person to make his point. But Truman was old and retired, and didn't care what Dulles said. 

 

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Verily, Dulles actually visited him in person to make his point. But Truman was old and retired, and didn't care what Dulles said. 

 

Ordinarily most would be financially attached to the system, or be over a barrel for something they had done in the past, Truman obviously wasn’t gaming the system to enrich himself and had nothing to lose by speaking out. He probably deeply regretted the way he had been duped and the end result. 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Chris Barnard said:

Ordinarily most would be financially attached to the system, or be over a barrel for something they had done in the past, Truman obviously wasn’t gaming the system to enrich himself and had nothing to lose by speaking out. He probably deeply regretted the way he had been duped and the end result. 

David McCullough wrote a book on Truman that is an easy read, and perhaps a bit of a hagiography. Truman was no dummy. The dropping of A-bombs remains horrific--on the other hand, the Americans would lose 10,000 men storming a single small island in the Pacific. Life had become cheap, and after losses like that....the US was firebombing cities in japan and Germany. 

McCullough was not the type of writer to delve into the post-war national security state, and the growing power of multinationals.  A power that has grown to this day. 

 

 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

David McCullough wrote a book on Truman that is an easy read, and perhaps a bit of a hagiography. Truman was no dummy. The dropping of A-bombs remains horrific--on the other hand, the Americans would lose 10,000 men storming a single small island in the Pacific. Life had become cheap, and after losses like that....the US was firebombing cities in japan and Germany. 

McCullough was not the type of writer to delve into the post-war national security state, and the growing power of multinationals.  A power that has grown to this day. 

 

 

That’s a good point. I agree, a land invasion of Japan for example would have been catastrophic with the opposition having the mentality to fight til the last man. I just find it difficult to forgive him for being magnanimous after those bombs were dropped. Perhaps he got caught in the moment. Perhaps the hypocrisy from me is that I like FDR but, the states were sending oil to the Germans via the Vichy French throughout the war and they stopped selling oil to the Japanese just 3 days before the attack on Pearl Harbour, Guam and the Philippines. Maybe we could argue he was out of his depth, of or fearful of a coup after the 1933 planned one, which he interestingly didn’t punish any conspirators for. 
Maybe I am hard on Harry. Interesting period of history, though. 

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

That’s a good point. I agree, a land invasion of Japan for example would have been catastrophic with the opposition having the mentality to fight til the last man. I just find it difficult to forgive him for being magnanimous after those bombs were dropped. Perhaps he got caught in the moment. Perhaps the hypocrisy from me is that I like FDR but, the states were sending oil to the Germans via the Vichy French throughout the war and they stopped selling oil to the Japanese just 3 days before the attack on Pearl Harbour, Guam and the Philippines. Maybe we could argue he was out of his depth, of or fearful of a coup after the 1933 planned one, which he interestingly didn’t punish any conspirators for. 
Maybe I am hard on Harry. Interesting period of history, though. 

If you haven't watched Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States, or read the book, you guys would probably be interested in the chapter on Truman and the Bomb.

As for the subject of the CIA and the Kennedy family, here's a footnote.

Prescott Bush, the father of "Mr. George Bush of the CIA," once said that he "would never forgive JFK for firing Allen Dulles."

[Joe Bauer]

Did Dulles really say about JFK "He thought he was a little God." ???

Or something very close to this?

This wasn't a documented statement correct?  Just a second or third hand anecdotal account? Where "did" it come from?

But, if he did say the above quote, Dulles's contempt for JFK was really, seriously deep.

Reminds me of the wife of William Harvey in a older age filmed interview, calling the Kennedy's ( JFK and Jackie") "Scum." You could feel the hate in her voice.

Seems all those intel people ( dangerous men of action Sturgis, Morales, Hunt, Phillips, Harvey Etc. ) all hated JFK and especially brother Robert.

Throw in J.Edgar Hoover too. Throw in LeMay and Lyman Lemnitzer, et al..

A true "7 Days In May" scenario was a reality all around JFK. I think JFK knew this, but part of him was a full life living yet risk taking fatalist. He was going to do his thing in public and private...and if it all blew up?  Well, I'll worry about that tomorrow. 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Joe Bauer

[Guest]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

If you haven't watched Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States, or read the book, you guys would probably be interested in the chapter on Truman and the Bomb

I am not sure if that doc formed some of my opinion on Truman or if it was some of the docs on the History channel. The Stone series was excellent imho. 
 

Interesting stuff about Prescott Bush, I came across an declassified CIA letter from Dulles to Prescott Bush thanking him for a news article where he’d highly endorsed Dulles after the BOP. Weren’t those two supposed to be Nixon’s benefactors during his rise? 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

 

Did Dulles really say about JFK "He thought he was a little God." ???

Or something very close to this?

 

I forget who but, it was someone interviewing Dulles at his home and for the briefest of moments he broke from his calm demeanour in response to something said about JFK “that little Kennedy, thought he was a god.” 
 

It truly was 7 days in May. Reminds of of another quote, after the missile crisis. JFK said to RFK, maybe I should goto the theatre tonight? Bob replies something like; “well, if you should go, then I will go with you”. In reference to Lincoln being assassinated at the theatre. 
 

I think psychologically, after having your last rights read 4 times, spending so much time bed ridden and desperately ill, not expected to live to old age, I think JFK did live in the moment, it made him feel alive and probably gave him the courage to proceed where others may have faltered. He was also a reader of the greek tragedies, he would have been conscious that he would be a martyr, frozen in time, remembered somewhere near his prime and not as a weak ill man. Then there is his favourite poem which Caroline recited in front of some of the military high brass in the oval office (I think). 
 

I have a rendezvous with Death

At some disputed barricade,

When Spring comes back with rustling shade

And apple-blossoms fill the air—

I have a rendezvous with Death

When Spring brings back blue days and fair.

 

It may be he shall take my hand

And lead me into his dark land

And close my eyes and quench my breath—

It may be I shall pass him still.

I have a rendezvous with Death

On some scarred slope of battered hill,

When Spring comes round again this year

And the first meadow-flowers appear.

 

God knows 'twere better to be deep

Pillowed in silk and scented down,

Where Love throbs out in blissful sleep,

Pulse nigh to pulse, and breath to breath,

Where hushed awakenings are dear ...

But I've a rendezvous with Death

At midnight in some flaming town,

When Spring trips north again this year,

And I to my pledged word am true,

I shall not fail that rendezvous.