Sirhan's pending parole - Kerry Kennedy speaks out

[Dennis Berube]

On 9/4/2021 at 1:16 PM, Steve Roe said:

RFK Jr. has a history of nutty conspiracy theories, including the Covid Vaccine aimed at Afro-Americans. And there is more.....

Not even a coherent statement, it sounds like you read an MSM piece about RFK Jr instead of his actual works. He just won a big case against the FCC, apparently the courts find RFK Jr of sound mind. I’m sure you thank him for his heroic effort on behalf of all humans, the MSM didn’t.

 

but this did get a laugh, thanks

On 9/4/2021 at 1:16 PM, Steve Roe said:

Just because you buy into this fantasy about Sirhan being innocent of anything.......you can't selfishly demand they do. 

I love fantasies that involve statistical impossibility like more bullet holes/sounds than Sirhans gun could even hold, blanks or not. 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Dennis Berube

[Steve Roe]

On 9/10/2021 at 11:32 AM, Dennis Berube said:

Not even a coherent statement, it sounds like you read an MSM piece about RFK Jr instead of his actual works. He just won a big case against the FCC, apparently the courts find RFK Jr of sound mind. I’m sure you thank him for his heroic effort on behalf of all humans, the MSM didn’t.

 

but this did get a laugh, thanks

I love fantasies that involve statistical impossibility like more bullet holes/sounds than Sirhans gun could even hold, blanks or not. 

 

Statistical impossibility, huh? I see you believe the conspiracy nonsense. 

I will link this document for you and others to read. It's lengthy and no doubt there will be people who do not want to take the time to read and study. It's a primary document, not a conspiracy book by someone expressing their opinion. 

For background, a Special Council was appointed in 1975 by the Los Angeles Board of Supervisors to independently investigate the murder of Robert Kennedy. His name was Thomas Kranz, and he reviewed trial documents, evidence, witness interviews, etc. In short, a very thorough investigation. 

As I stated before, reading Kranz's investigation report requires concentration and attention to the detail. You will not find this exhaustive investigation in any of the various RFK conspiracy books, such as the sham book written by Lisa Pease. 

As most of you know, Lisa Pease believes Sirhan shot blanks out of his eight-cylinder Iver-Johnson .22 revolver.

I've asked Mr. DiEugenio if he believes this, and he refuses to address the question, even though he reviewed Ms. Pease's transcript and highly praised the book. 

Here's the Kranz report https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=99873#relPageId=14&search=sirhan_bullets

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Steve Roe said:

Statistical impossibility, huh? I see you believe the conspiracy nonsense. 

I will link this document for you and others to read. It's lengthy and no doubt there will be people who do not want to take the time to read and study. It's a primary document, not a conspiracy book by someone expressing their opinion. 

For background, a Special Council was appointed in 1975 by the Los Angeles Board of Supervisors to independently investigate the murder of Robert Kennedy. His name was Thomas Kranz, and he reviewed trial documents, evidence, witness interviews, etc. In short, a very thorough investigation. 

As I stated before, reading Kranz's investigation report requires concentration and attention to the detail. You will not find this exhaustive investigation in any of the various RFK conspiracy books, such as the sham book written by Lisa Pease. 

As most of you know, Lisa Pease believes Sirhan shot blanks out of his eight-cylinder Iver-Johnson .22 revolver.

I've asked Mr. DiEugenio if he believes this, and he refuses to address the question, even though he reviewed Ms. Pease's transcript and highly praised the book. 

Here's the Kranz report https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=99873#relPageId=14&search=sirhan_bullets

Out of interest, have you read Lisa Pease' book, "A lie too big to fail". It wasn't a new revelation that RFK was assassinated by someone other than Sirhan Sirhan, it was thoroughly researched and expanded on. 

[Steve Roe]

1 hour ago, Chris Barnard said:

Out of interest, have you read Lisa Pease' book, "A lie too big to fail". It wasn't a new revelation that RFK was assassinated by someone other than Sirhan Sirhan, it was thoroughly researched and expanded on. 

Yes, I have the Kindle version of Lisa Pease's book, "A lie too big to fail".  

No, it's not a new revelation of other shooters. Of course Thane Eugene Cesar is the most well known. But what Pease does is expand her fantasy to other shooters.

Here's a direct quote from page 289 (Kindle Version) of her book. 

Knowing Sirhan was going to be firing blanks, other conspirators simply had to wait until Sirhan fired his first shot. Then, while everyone else in the pantry froze in shock and fear, assassins moved quickly to get the job done. This scenario fits all the known evidence. Sirhan was like a magician’s assistant, providing the distraction by firing blanks. All eyes went to his gun, leaving the actual assassins to do their job. The actual shooters could have used suppressors and kept their weapons well hidden, perhaps in rolled-up posters or under a newspaper or a busboy’s towel. With several people firing at once, it became impossible to tell how many shots are fired. That explains why the shots sounded like firecrackers to such a large number of witnesses.

Pease, Lisa. A Lie Too Big to Fail (p. 289). Feral House. Kindle Edition. 

Does this sound credible? The book is chock full of "what ifs" and her speculation which are absurd in relevance to the facts. 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Steve Roe
Correct page number as per quote

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

Statistical impossibility, huh? I see you believe the conspiracy nonsense. 

I will link this document for you and others to read. It's lengthy and no doubt there will be people who do not want to take the time to read and study. It's a primary document, not a conspiracy book by someone expressing their opinion. 

For background, a Special Council was appointed in 1975 by the Los Angeles Board of Supervisors to independently investigate the murder of Robert Kennedy. His name was Thomas Kranz, and he reviewed trial documents, evidence, witness interviews, etc. In short, a very thorough investigation. 

As I stated before, reading Kranz's investigation report requires concentration and attention to the detail. You will not find this exhaustive investigation in any of the various RFK conspiracy books, such as the sham book written by Lisa Pease. 

As most of you know, Lisa Pease believes Sirhan shot blanks out of his eight-cylinder Iver-Johnson .22 revolver.

I've asked Mr. DiEugenio if he believes this, and he refuses to address the question, even though he reviewed Ms. Pease's transcript and highly praised the book. 

Here's the Kranz report https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=99873#relPageId=14&search=sirhan_bullets

I may have misunderstood where you are coming from here. So, you agree there was a conspiracy to kill Senator Robert F Kennedy (one of two Senators to be assassinated in US history, the other being Huey Long) but, you disagree with Lisa’s hypothesis?! 
 

As to whether blanks being fired as a distraction, it seems plausible, I mean the noisiest rounds possible to draw attention to Sirhan, but, it matters little if he is firing live rounds. You might draw a comparison between people firing from the TSB vs the people firing at the picket fence. The crux of the matter is Noguchi, and his testament to the kill shot being behind the ear and a few inches from RFK’s head. That and the panels removed with bullet holes in them and being destroyed by the LAPD. 
We have all of the motive in the world to believe that RFK being killed by a conspiracy. 
 

IMHO opinion the assassinations of the 1960’s should be looked at as a collective, not as individual unfortunate happenings. Look for patterns, not coincidences. 
 

Of course, it’s a persons right to disagree, but, logic has to prevail in any coherent investigation. 
 

 

[Steve Roe]

On 9/11/2021 at 3:59 PM, Chris Barnard said:

I may have misunderstood where you are coming from here. So, you agree there was a conspiracy to kill Senator Robert F Kennedy (one of two Senators to be assassinated in US history, the other being Huey Long) but, you disagree with Lisa’s hypothesis?! 
 

As to whether blanks being fired as a distraction, it seems plausible, I mean the noisiest rounds possible to draw attention to Sirhan, but, it matters little if he is firing live rounds. You might draw a comparison between people firing from the TSB vs the people firing at the picket fence. The crux of the matter is Noguchi, and his testament to the kill shot being behind the ear and a few inches from RFK’s head. That and the panels removed with bullet holes in them and being destroyed by the LAPD. 
We have all of the motive in the world to believe that RFK being killed by a conspiracy. 
 

IMHO opinion the assassinations of the 1960’s should be looked at as a collective, not as individual unfortunate happenings. Look for patterns, not coincidences. 
 

Of course, it’s a persons right to disagree, but, logic has to prevail in any coherent investigation. 
 

 

In regards to the RFK assassination, I do not believe or subscribe to a conspiracy. Studying the facts over the years, it was Sirhan and Sirhan alone that gunned down the Senator. I do not believe in the Manchurian Candidate fantasy. 

Also I do not dispute Noguchi's autopsy findings of a near "point blank" shot to the head, behind his right ear. Despite all the reports of Sirhan being some distance away, it was clear that he lunged toward RFK and fired the shots. By accounts I have read, that was the first shot (head). Not Thane Eugene Cesar, who had a .38 service revolver. If it was Cesar, then why didn't they jump him? Does that make sense?

I prefer to read and study the actual reports, first hand to form my opinion. I am not swayed by the many books on RFK's murder promoting conspiracy. I do not have a closed mind, because I have examined many of these claims and they prove to be false, misleading and/or under-researched.

You stated this: "MHO opinion the assassinations of the 1960’s should be looked at as a collective, not as individual unfortunate happenings. Look for patterns, not coincidences."

Response: I strongly disagree with that statement. You cannot assume every murder, in this case, political assassinations are part of a conspiratorial pattern. That's absurd. Each case should be studied individually, examining the facts, the evidence and testimony of witnesses. 

That's my opinion.  

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Steve Roe said:

You stated this: "MHO opinion the assassinations of the 1960’s should be looked at as a collective, not as individual unfortunate happenings. Look for patterns, not coincidences."

Response: I strongly disagree with that statement. You cannot assume every murder, in this case, political assassinations are part of a conspiratorial pattern. That's absurd. Each case should be studied individually, examining the facts, the evidence and testimony of witnesses. 

That's my opinion

We’re here to have an open discussion and opinions, so thats cool, i don’t mind you disagreeing. But, I will point out a mischaracterisation of my statement. The homicide rates from the 1960’s are publicly available, so, I am not asserting that every murder in that period was connected as part of some conspiracy. I am merely stating that four of the most prominent American political figures of that period are murdered in quick succession, which defies mathematics and probability. So is the absurdity to accept coincidences or put things down to happenstance? Personally, I like probability. Only two sitting senators have been assassinated, Robert F Kennedy and Huey Long. Both with ambitions for the presidency. 

 

37 minutes ago, Steve Roe said:

prefer to read and study the actual reports

I agree with you there. What do you make of the evidence that is contrary to your view? What is your qualification process? Trust in the LAPD? I would hasten to point out the Rampart scandal and wide-scale corruption that was exposed in the decades after. Can the evidence be relied upon? 

 

37 minutes ago, Steve Roe said:

By accounts I have read, that was the first shot (head). Not Thane Eugene Cesar, who had a .38 service revolver. If it was Cesar, then why didn't they jump him? Does that make sense?

This one is easy. Do you have any idea what it would be like to be in a confined space with multiple shots going off? The sound, the confusion, the chaos? Essentially, your reaction wouldn’t be a conscious one, it would be your subconscious that takes over, you’re in survival mode, trying to stay alive. Your eyes would be drawn not to Robert F Kennedy but, to Sirhan firing, its perfectly plausible that another gun could go off more than once and barely anyone, if anyone would notice. If you were the architect of such a plan, it works well. 

[Sean Coleman]

Two members of the same family…..shot in the head…….in the same decade….by magical swerving bullets……what were the odds!!??

[Dennis Berube]

On 9/11/2021 at 1:45 PM, Steve Roe said:

For background, a Special Council was appointed in 1975 by the Los Angeles Board of Supervisors to independently investigate the murder of Robert Kennedy. His name was Thomas Kranz, and he reviewed trial documents, evidence, witness interviews, etc. In short, a very thorough investigation. 

Yikes Steve. The brilliant Allard Lowenstein destroyed the Kranz report in 1977.

 

I don't consider Kranz independent at all. He was active in the case blocking testimony, he was special counsel to the DA's office and admitted he wanted to become a DA. Real independence there. He never mentioned ANY of the MANY witnesses that described a point blank shot and cherry picked from their statements.

 

“You must acknowledge that no one saw much of anything. And that’s what has always troubled me.” - Kranz

again, good chuckles here

[James DiEugenio]

It was not just Al.

The late Greg Stone also took apart Kranz.

[Ray Mitcham]

Steve, the bullet removed from RFK's brain, did not match the bullets (!) from Sirhan's gun. Ever wonder why?

 

[Joe Bauer]

3 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Steve, the bullet removed from RFK's brain, did not match the bullets (!) from Sirhan's gun. Ever wonder why?

 

My God! Is that verifiably true? Documented? Forensically proven?

[Pete Mellor]

On 9/15/2021 at 1:21 PM, Joe Bauer said:

My God! Is that verifiably true? Documented? Forensically proven?

No. It was too fragmented to identify microscopic striations unique to Sirhan’s firearm.

[Steve Roe]

On 9/14/2021 at 5:21 PM, Dennis Berube said:

Yikes Steve. The brilliant Allard Lowenstein destroyed the Kranz report in 1977.

 

I don't consider Kranz independent at all. He was active in the case blocking testimony, he was special counsel to the DA's office and admitted he wanted to become a DA. Real independence there. He never mentioned ANY of the MANY witnesses that described a point blank shot and cherry picked from their statements.

 

“You must acknowledge that no one saw much of anything. And that’s what has always troubled me.” - Kranz

again, good chuckles here

Oh, so Lowenstein destroyed the Kranz report.....really?

showDoc.html (maryferrell.org)

[Steve Roe]

46 minutes ago, Pete Mellor said:

No. It was too fragmented to identify microscopic striations unique to Sirhan’s firearm.

That's correct Mr. Mellor.