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Can We Agree that Allen Dulles was a Ringmaster of the JFKA?


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On 8/31/2021 at 7:44 PM, Jon Pickering said:

Disagree. Dulles, in fact, was what he was always intended to be - a "civilian" patsy to draw heat away from the true ramrods of the assassination, and, other horrible crimes around the planet. They would be - in my opinion - the Joint Chiefs, operating under the full institutional weight of the Armed Forces , as embodied by the Generals and Admiral corps, their staffs, and, key lower ranked personnel.

And the extraordinary work of military reserve Dallas Police detectives.

I tend to agree, but I don’t see how one excludes the other. CIA/US military - no hard and fast line there.

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4 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Mr. Cole,

David Phillips strikes me as a good candidate for the operational leader in every respect but one.

No doubt the assassination conspiracy was kept as small as possible, but certain functions had to be carried out.  Needed, for example, were at least two or three shooters willing to strike a sitting president in broad daylight in the heart of a major American city.  (Some ticked off Cubans might have been crazed enough to take the obvious risks. I doubt many professional hit men would accept such an assignment.)

At least a Dallas cop or two (Westbrook and Ken Croy?) were needed to put into evidence the throw down "Oswald/Hidell" wallet and to lead cops already angered by the Tippit slaying to the patsy’s hideout.  And several people would be needed to make sure the designated patsy was in the right place at the right time so he could be blamed for it all (including Roy Truly, probably). 

Also needed was someone with the ability to fake a Magic Money Order to tie “Oswald/Hidell” to at least some kind of rifle. (U.S. Postal Inspector Harry Holmes was the obvious candidate.)

And well before the hit, you’d have to assume that the search for JFK’s assassin(s) would be relentless—at least until someone was apprehended.  So there had to be a patsy, and then the patsy would have to be silenced before a trial might endanger everyone involved.  And so someone was needed—in advance--to lead the cover-up during an investigation that would surely go to the Feds despite Texas laws.

No doubt I’m forgetting some additional steps here, but more than a mere handful of conspirators were needed to have a chance of success at this murderous scheme.  The usual cut-outs, compartmentalizations, and need-to-know techniques were probably adopted, but despite that, I just don’t think Phillips had the gravitas to pull that off.   But I can think of another Agency man who clearly did.  For me, it’s partly a process of elimination, leaving Dulles as the prime suspect.

Well, here is my two cents. 

Most of what happened in the JFKA was complicity after the fact, under the guise of averting a nuclear war, and giving no aid and comfort to lefty/commies, and the usual falling in line, the line was LHO alone did it. 

---

I have wondered about the wallet at the Tippit scene for a long time.

I wonder if it was the same wallet lifted off of Oswald right after the theater arrest. At that point, the DPD thought LHO had murdered Tippit, and so began building a case against him. So they placed his wallet at the scene of the crime.  Building a case by enhancing evidence was a practice, and especially if a fellow officer had been murdered. 

As I say, my two cents...

 

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You wrote a very interesting article, Mr. Cole, that I’ll have to read through again more carefully.  Thanks!

I do believe, though, that portions of the cover-up were executed earlier than you suspect, a perfect example being the 10th and Patton “Oswald/Hidell” wallet that the evidence seems to indicate was photographed by WFAA-TV news photographer Ron Reiland BEFORE Oswald’s capture at the theater.  Here’s how John Armstrong described the scene on our website:

A few minutes later, at 1:42 PM, crime lab officers George Doughty, W.E. Barnes, and Paul Bentley arrived and inspected the wallet produced by Westbrook. FBI Agent Bob Barrett arrived, parked his car, and walked toward Tippit's patrol car. Barrett explained, "I went on over there and Captain Westbrook was there with several of his officers.... It hadn't been very long when Westbrook looked up and saw me and called me over. He had this wallet in his hand. Now, I don't know where he found it, but he had the wallet in his hand... the wallet was there. There's no getting around that. Westbrook had the wallet in his hand and asked me if I knew who these people were. I'm adamant that there was a wallet in somebody's hand and Westbrook asked me if I knew who 'Lee Harvey Oswald' was and who 'Hidell' were." 

As Westbrook showed the wallet to Barrett and fellow DPD officers, WFAA-TV Channel 8 news photographer Ron Reiland filmed the wallet. Sgt. Bud Owens was holding the wallet while Capt. Doughty was looking at the wallet.

Here's a still from Reiland's film:

WFAA.jpg

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13 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

And the extraordinary work of military reserve Dallas Police detectives.

I tend to agree, but I don’t see how one excludes the other. CIA/US military - no hard and fast line there.

Paul,

I meant to say in a previous post, but forgot, that if I were Dulles (or whoever was coordinating activities in this case), I wouldn’t proceed unless I had at least several high ranking military people behind it.  This was, as almost all of us agree, essentially a coup d'état

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4 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Paul,

I meant to say in a previous post, but forgot, that if I were Dulles (or whoever was coordinating activities in this case), I wouldn’t proceed unless I had at least several high ranking military people behind it.  This was, as almost all of us agree, essentially a coup d'état

I have always thought the assassination of President Kennedy was an effort of the various action arms of the Executivie Branch, or rogue elements of those agencies.  These were the people who had the ability to do it and also cover it up.  It was a coup d'etat.  I give LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover a higher position in this than Allan Dulles.  Allan Dulles can certainly be seen as one of the top dogs in that pack.  

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3 hours ago, John Butler said:

I have always thought the assassination of President Kennedy was an effort of the various action arms of the Executivie Branch, or rogue elements of those agencies.  These were the people who had the ability to do it and also cover it up.  It was a coup d'etat.  I give LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover a higher position in this than Allan Dulles.  Allan Dulles can certainly be seen as one of the top dogs in that pack.  

All three were, obviously, involved in the systematic cover up of the assassination plot.

One of the most striking things about the JFK assassination plot, IMO, is the fact that it has been systematically covered up for the past 57 years in our mainstream media, and by the serial murders of key witnesses.

What government agency has that kind of sustained power and ability to control the M$M narrative?

In fact, I'm still waiting for some honest, accurate U.S. M$M coverage of Oliver Stone's new film.

As for the execution of the Dealey Plaza op, people on this thread still seem to be overlooking the likelihood that Ed Lansdale was Allen Dulles's key black ops expert in Dealey Plaza, as Fletcher Prouty surmised.

Let's not forget that Prouty was one of the few Joint Chiefs/CIA insiders who ever talked about what he had observed in the fall of 1963.

IMO, there is a good reason why propagandists like John McAdams worked so hard to discredit Prouty's reputation and observations as the 1963 Joint Chiefs liaison to the CIA for Special Operations.

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6 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

As for the execution of the Dealey Plaza op, people on this thread still seem to be overlooking the likelihood that Ed Lansdale was Allen Dulles's key black ops expert in Dealey Plaza, as Fletcher Prouty surmised.

Let's not forget that Prouty was one of the few Joint Chiefs/CIA insiders who ever talked about what he had observed in the fall of 1963.

I don't know much about the actions of the Joint chiefs of Staff members.  I do suspect that the assassination of President Kennedy would not have happened without everybody being on board.  It's kind of like every Roman Senator involved in the death of Caesar had to stab him.  Without the Joint Chiefs there would have been no assassination.   They had their part.

There has been much said about the reasons for the assassination, but very little about what was needed to convince the various parties that there was something wrong with Kennedy and he had to go before he was reelected in 1964.  My guess is that evidence, real or faked, it doesn't matter, that Kennedy was in league with the Soviets during the Cuban Missile Crisis, betrayal during the Bay of Pigs or some other thing.  

Edited by John Butler
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10 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

You wrote a very interesting article, Mr. Cole, that I’ll have to read through again more carefully.  Thanks!

I do believe, though, that portions of the cover-up were executed earlier than you suspect, a perfect example being the 10th and Patton “Oswald/Hidell” wallet that the evidence seems to indicate was photographed by WFAA-TV news photographer Ron Reiland BEFORE Oswald’s capture at the theater.  Here’s how John Armstrong described the scene on our website:

A few minutes later, at 1:42 PM, crime lab officers George Doughty, W.E. Barnes, and Paul Bentley arrived and inspected the wallet produced by Westbrook. FBI Agent Bob Barrett arrived, parked his car, and walked toward Tippit's patrol car. Barrett explained, "I went on over there and Captain Westbrook was there with several of his officers.... It hadn't been very long when Westbrook looked up and saw me and called me over. He had this wallet in his hand. Now, I don't know where he found it, but he had the wallet in his hand... the wallet was there. There's no getting around that. Westbrook had the wallet in his hand and asked me if I knew who these people were. I'm adamant that there was a wallet in somebody's hand and Westbrook asked me if I knew who 'Lee Harvey Oswald' was and who 'Hidell' were." 

As Westbrook showed the wallet to Barrett and fellow DPD officers, WFAA-TV Channel 8 news photographer Ron Reiland filmed the wallet. Sgt. Bud Owens was holding the wallet while Capt. Doughty was looking at the wallet.

Here's a still from Reiland's film:

WFAA.jpg

Jim H.--

 

Verily, that wallet at the crime scene has always been a puzzler. Seems like it was planted.  I mean, how many street murders have ever been committed where the perp helpfully leaves his wallet behind at the scene? 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, John Butler said:

I have always thought the assassination of President Kennedy was an effort of the various action arms of the Executivie Branch, or rogue elements of those agencies.  These were the people who had the ability to do it and also cover it up.  It was a coup d'etat.  I give LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover a higher position in this than Allan Dulles.  Allan Dulles can certainly be seen as one of the top dogs in that pack.  

I think LBJ's smile on Airforce One at Love Field betrayed him.  He knew what was happening.  He had been informed in advance so he wouldn't over react.  He went along willingly because of all the dirt on him.  

Since we're speculating here I'll nominate Dulles as informer of LBJ of pending circumstances shortly before 11/22/63.

As Senate Majority leader throughout the 1950's LBJ knew the Director of the CIA well.  He in essence approved their budget for starters. 

Dulles continued to meet with his loyal associates at the CIA after JFK fired him, all of them angered by it.  Dulles employers did not approve of JFK's actions.  Do you get the drift here?  

Dulles spent the evening of 11/22/63 at his house/control center at the Farm, and stayed there until after Jack Ruby shot Oswald the following Sunday. 

Strange Facts?    

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If we really want to discover who was involved in the President's murder, we must check for military backgrounds among the established suspects. An affirmative hit points to guilt in the greenlighting, planning, or physical execution of the assassination---or the 58 year-long cover-up.

For example - to begin our research, let's start with everybody's favorite suspect, Lt. Colonel John Edgar Hoover from U.S. Army Intelligence Reserves. J. Edgar was military? Shocking, eh? Well, no, not really - not in the local, state, or, federal governments of the U.S.A., where radio, then television, along with the brass, instruct us that Military-Americans are the best candidates for jobs in civilian governance and most importantly in civilian law enforcement. His more famous hustle - so they say - was a stint with the Federal B.I. where he posed as a mafia-denying closeted civilian. And, where he also did immense damage to the civilian sector in a run that lasted over 50 years.

So, come on - the list of suspects won't check itself. Let's get to it, then, shall we?

Edited by Jon Pickering
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19 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

As for the execution of the Dealey Plaza op, people on this thread still seem to be overlooking the likelihood that Ed Lansdale was Allen Dulles's key black ops expert in Dealey Plaza, as Fletcher Prouty surmised.

Mr. Niederhut,

Thanks for the observation.

Beyond the photo of "the tramps" (the one Mr. Prouty believed was Landsdale was based on a back of the head image, right?) do you know of any other evidence that Lansdale was in Dallas that day?
 

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9 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I think LBJ's smile on Airforce One at Love Field betrayed him.  He knew what was happening.  He had been informed in advance so he wouldn't over react.  He went along willingly because of all the dirt on him.  

Since we're speculating here I'll nominate Dulles as informer of LBJ of pending circumstances shortly before 11/22/63.

As Senate Majority leader throughout the 1950's LBJ knew the Director of the CIA well.  He in essence approved their budget for starters. 

Dulles continued to meet with his loyal associates at the CIA after JFK fired him, all of them angered by it.  Dulles employers did not approve of JFK's actions.  Do you get the drift here?  

Dulles spent the evening of 11/22/63 at his house/control center at the Farm, and stayed there until after Jack Ruby shot Oswald the following Sunday. 

Strange Facts?    

Ron,

I can go along with a triumvirate of LBJ, Hoover, and Dulles.  I would certainly add members of the Joint Chiefs.

Strange Facts?  Yep.  Almost everything about the assassination is strange or twisted from reality.

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1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Mr. Niederhut,

Thanks for the observation.

Beyond the photo of "the tramps" (the one Mr. Prouty believed was Landsdale was based on a back of the head image, right?) do you know of any other evidence that Lansdale was in Dallas that day?
 

Jim,

     Here's a quote about Lansdale and Texas from a March 2015 Education Forum post by Steven Gaal.

"Among Lansdale's letters, John Newman and David Lifton found a slip of paper that has "The Texas Hotel" on it and a phone number in Denton. Lansdale's letters also reveal that he was headed in the direction of Dallas in November 1963.91

Lansdale wrote to a number of friends and associates beginning in September 1963, of his intention to go to Texas in November. There are as many as ten letters, according to Newman, where he described this upcoming trip to two people. One was his son. The other one was General "Hangin' Sam" Williams, an old buddy and McGarr's predecessor in Vietnam. He lived in San Antonio.92

The last piece of paper that Newman found placing Lansdale physically in Washington is dated November 14, 1963. It concerns running errands for his wife. After that there is no record of his whereabouts except for a box of incidentals, which had this piece of paper in it. It has on it "Texas Hotel" and "Denton" and a name and phone number. As Newman said, "That might be from 1949 or it might be 1968 and again it might be November 1963. Because the Texas Hotel is where Kennedy stayed the night before he died, and Denton, Texas is just north here of Dallas, it all fits in. "

 

 

Edited by W. Niederhut
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10 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I think LBJ's smile on Airforce One at Love Field betrayed him.  He knew what was happening.  He had been informed in advance so he wouldn't over react.  He went along willingly because of all the dirt on him.  

 

While LBJ may have been informed in advance if he wasn't actually in on the planning, I've always felt that too much is made of his "smile" and the wink from Thomas in the photo of the swearing in. We don't see LBJ's face, just a raised cheek, which could be from a grimace or a smile. A grimace would be perfectly understandable at such a solemn moment, even if just put on for effect. But a smile? What fool would smile at that time with all eyes upon him? As for the wink, it could have been just a gesture of encouragement ("You're the man" or "Go get 'em" or whatever), and not something more nefarious. In any case I just don't buy that LBJ is smiling.

 

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:

While LBJ may have been informed in advance if he wasn't actually in on the planning, I've always felt that too much is made of his "smile" and the wink from Thomas in the photo of the swearing in. We don't see LBJ's face, just a raised cheek, which could be from a grimace or a smile. A grimace would be perfectly understandable at such a solemn moment, even if just put on for effect. But a smile? What fool would smile at that time with all eyes upon him? As for the wink, it could have been just a gesture of encouragement ("You're the man" or "Go get 'em" or whatever), and not something more nefarious. In any case I just don't buy that LBJ is smiling.

 

Ron, I think it's Albert Thomas's face that tells the story.  He's glad LBJ and Texas are in the power seat.  What that means to the assassination is up for debate.

Edited by David Andrews
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