The Tippit Witnesses --- Part V

[Jonathan Cohen]

17 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

I am failing to follow the logic in claiming an early doctor's statement to the FBI telling of a bullet wound to the right temple of Tippit proves a photo with a bullet wound to the right temple of Tippit is fake.

Greg, you are not alone in failing to follow John Butler's logic when it comes to his claims that virtually every piece of evidence in this case is fake.

[David Josephs]

52 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Greg, you are not alone in failing to follow John Butler's logic when it comes to his claims that virtually every piece of evidence in this case is fake.

Spouting off yet again.  Is that all u do here Jon… try and bandwagon with others to nsult other researchers and posters?

Do you ever offer anything from your POV or too ashamed you have no original analysis or hypotheses that can increase understanding?

(yawn)

[John Butler]

2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Spouting off yet again.  Is that all u do here Jon… try and bandwagon with others to nsult other researchers and posters?

Do you ever offer anything from your POV or too ashamed you have no original analysis or hypotheses that can increase understanding?

(yawn)

David,

Looks like I don't have to reuse what you said in another thread.  Once again you make the Super Master Carpenter grade by hitting this nail precisely on the head.

And preciseness in anatomical description is what it is all about.  You can't take seriously the gross descriptions and gross inaccuracies in the Earl Rose autopsy.  Or, for those who lack knowledge of anatomy or even worse those who distort anatomy to make their point.  Things like that distort the discussion to the point where communication is impossible.  Look at the following:

   

Greg's photo here turned upside down and reversed gives one a better look at his right temple wound.  Accurate for his portrayal of a right temple wound, but totally inaccurate to describe the wound in the Unger photo or the autopsy sketch.  

I suspect the reason he used this photo this way is order to make it harder to understand the comparison.

Description of anatomy is all about preciseness of detail in describing an organism's anatomy.  Earl Rose's autopsy report would not pass review in any peer-reviewed journal in Anthropology which routinely discusses the anatomy of living and fossil creatures.  Often times anthropologists are called in to make a more accurate description in criminal cases.    

I'll repeat myself, "The temple is an area where 4 skull bones come together on the side of the head.  These are the Frontal Bone, the Parietal Bone, the Sphenoid Bone, and the Temporal Bone.  In anatomy, these are accurately detailed anatomical areas and must be defined by preciseness.  A loose description such as temple is not acceptable for any scientific report."  And, the right temple is not located at the corner of the eye where the wound is.  The Sphenoid Bone is there with no mention in the autopsy report.

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by John Butler

[Greg Doudna]

John Butler, I assure you I did not have that image upside down "in order to make it harder to understand the comparison", rather that was the way it was (upside-down) in the medical slide show of the link I gave, combined with my technically not knowing how to fix that, but you have fixed it which is good.

You attack Dr. Rose for using the word "temple" in his autopsy to describe the bullet to the temple the photo shows for Tippit, and charge that by using the word "temple" in description of temple, "Earl Rose's autopsy report would not pass review in any peer-reviewed journal in Anthropology..."

But I just checked Rose's autopsy report on Tippit, in Myers' Appendix C in With Malice, and Rose never uses the word "temple" in his autopsy report. I believe you are casting aspersions on Dr. Rose unjustifiably on this point.

On saying that bullet in Tippit's temple in the photo is not what plain, understandable layman's English would call a "temple" location of that bullet, all I can say is my guess is approximately 1000 out of 1000 native-English speakers looking at that photo would call that a shot into his temple. However, I get the impression I have stepped into some conflict between you and some others which I do not understand, and have no wish to be part of, so I am out of here. (I just would appreciate you not casting aspersions on my motives in that upside-down photo, of which there were none.) 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Greg Doudna

[John Butler]

Greg,

1 hour ago, Greg Doudna said:

John Butler, I assure you I did not have that image upside down "in order to make it harder to understand the comparison", rather that was the way it was (upside-down) in the medical slide show of the link I gave, combined with my technically not knowing how to fix that, but you have fixed it which is good.

I may have stepped over the line here a bit.  If you say that was not your intention, I accept that and apologize for my bad behavior.

1 hour ago, Greg Doudna said:

You attack Dr. Rose for using the word "temple" in his autopsy to describe the bullet to the temple the photo shows for Tippit, and charge that by using the word "temple" in description of temple, "Earl Rose's autopsy report would not pass review in any peer-reviewed journal in Anthropology..."

Earl Rose does use the words "right temple".  Go back to page one and you will see that on the autopsy page that I posted where I have marked the second explanation with a large red 2.

1 hour ago, Greg Doudna said:

On saying that bullet in Tippit's temple in the photo is not what plain, understandable layman's English would call a "temple" location of that bullet, all I can say is my guess is approximately 1000 out of 1000 native-English speakers looking at that photo would call that a shot into his temple. However, I get the impression I have stepped into some conflict between you and some others which I do not understand, and have no wish to be part of, so I am out of here. (I just would appreciate you not casting aspersions on my motives in that upside-down photo, of which there were none.) 

This is a big problem that one runs into from time to time in other discussions.  I understand that most people would think of that area as the temple.  Almost everyone does and they are wrong.  It is not and the temple is actually located closer to the ear than the eye.  But, what most people think or understand will not hold up in science or a court of law when it comes to the preciseness needed to describe and understand such a serious matter as a gunshot wound.  Earl Rose's autopsy of Officer Tippit should have resulted in his decertification or whatever term is appropriate and a new coroner found.

David Joseph's comments were directed to Jonathan Cohen more than you.  As I said earlier, sorry for including you in that.  David's comments aptly describe JC.  

[John Butler]

A word from James DiEugenio:

James DiEugenio: The J.D. Tippit Murder Case in the New Millennium

'Our Hidden History' Interview

 

DiEugenio: Anyway that's the last time the landlady saw him. She said that he was there at about 1:04. Well, the Warren Commission tells us that Oswald then walked from that corner to 10th and Patton and Tippit was killed at about 1:15 and of course they say Oswald did it. Now, the problem with this is additions of about nine-tenths of a mile. That creates a problem because it's hard to believe somebody can walk nine-tenths of a mile in something like 11 minutes. By the way, and I know two researchers who did walk that route and they were both much taller than Oswald and they said "we power walked it. We didn't just normally walked it." He said "we didn't come close to 11 minutes."

The "lone nut killer", Oswald was a trained Marine.  He walked everywhere he went, except for cabs and buses.  Was he capable of walking that in 11 minutes?  Or, more likely ran that distance, if he did it at all.        

This brought back memories of my time in the service.  Mr. DiEugenio is absolutely right.  To cover that distance in 11 minutes or less one must run.  In basic training a 8 minute mile was acceptable to pass a PT, or Physical Training test.  Some guys ran a 6 minute mile and one a 5 minute mile. 

If I am recalling correctly the standard infantry marching pace was 3 miles per hour.  That's a 20 minute mile.  There was one test that required marching 12 miles in 3 hours.  This was for an Expert Infantryman classification.  There was an award for doing this, an Expert Infantryman badge.  Most guys weren't interested in he badge, but were interested in the Professional Pay that was associated with it.  I believe that was an extra 90 dollars a month.  That is if you made this walk and demonstrated sufficient knowledge of things Army Infantry.

12 miles in 3 hours gives one a 4 mile a hour marching pace.  For one mile that would be 15 minutes.  This 15 minute mile is brutal for 12 miles.  It is just one gear short of running.

I don't believe Oswald was even there much less walk the distance in 11 minutes.  If he did the 4 mile an hour pace he would have been seen moving just short of a running motion.       

Edited October 16, 2021 by John Butler

[John Butler]

I thought I would go over this again for greater clarification.  This is an autopsy sketch prepared by Dr. Earl Rose:

This sketch indicates that Officer Tippit was shot in the "right temple" area.  Actually, not.  The temple area is more around the ear than eye.  We see in the sketch a wound at the corner of the right eye with an arrow moving back towards the top of the rear part of the skull.  This indicates, I would assume, the course of the bullet.

But, this is not what is said in Rose's autopsy report on page 487:

Examination of the wound of the right temple.  But, he contradicts that sentence when he describes "It" and where it enters.  It must be and can only be the bullet.  So, the bullet enters the right middle cranial fossa.  And, where is the right middle cranial fossa?  It certainly isn't the right temple.  Observe the following:

The bullet enters the base of the skull in the right middle cranial fossa.  That is the bottom of the skull and this creates a problem.  More of that in a minute.

Rose next says that the bullet "pursues a course which is slightly upward, backward and".  The next page 488 continues the description as "to the left".  And, "it is strikes the left occipitoparietal bone"  

He doesn't say either bone, but the juncture of the two bones.  "It", the bullet travels from the bottom of the skull to the juncture of the occipital and parietal bones and is recovered in that region.  Then he repeats things said in his first description of the wound.

"It", once again the bullet's course is plotted.  He said "it is found to enter the right temporal lobe."  This is as close as the bullet wound comes to the right temple.  The right temple is an area defined by bone and not the brain.  The right temporal lobe is a section of the brain and not bone.  This wound path is inside the skull at not in the temporal bone.  

So, at this point we have the "It", bullet, entering the brain through the right middle cranial fossa, at the base of the skull, then traveling through the temporal lobe of the brain.  Once through the temporal lobe "It" is shown to "coursed through the brain transecting the brain stem".  "It" severs the cerebral peduncles in the brainstem area and then ends up striking the occipitaloparietal bone.  And, then from there ending up at the "calcarine gyrus" at the rear of the head. 

This autopsy description does not match what most people think of when they consider the Tippit head wound.  Rose obfuscates what really happened.  Why?  It has to do with the evidence of the bullet and the head wound in this case. 

David Josephs asked the right question.  How does someone shoot Tippit in the "right temple" when he is laying face down on the ground.  Wouldn't the bullet travel in the opposite direction from what Rose describes.  And, since is head was by the left front tire and under the vehicle, how does that happen?  

For the wound that Rose describes Tippit must have been lying face up for the wound to travel from the base of the skull to the rear of the skull in the brainstem area.  This asks more questions.

Whoever placed the blue jacket on Tippit could have turned the body over.  Or, Tippit is the last moment of his life may have turned over to be face down.  Or, he could have fallen face up and someone later turned him over.  The wound as described by Rose doesn't match witness testimony.    

 

  

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by John Butler