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How to debunk the George Hickey theory?


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On 11/28/2021 at 2:47 AM, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

No, if someone makes a claim, the burden of proof is on them to justify their claim. It isn't up to anyone else to refute the claim.

The proof is staring you in the face.

But, you won't/can't admit it because you would then have to disprove it.

Which, btw, you or anyone else can't.

Creates quite a quagmire for you.

I surely can list a number of alteration methods which would account for the disappearance of Croft.

As I mentioned in the comment immediately above the one Chris linked to, we've had two decades' worth of anomalies being identified that have turned out to be worthless. The burden of proof has never been met, and after 20 years of detailed scrutiny and failed attempts, it isn't likely to be, either.

And, therein lies your SOP.

Reference to anomalies.

I pointed out elsewhere that Chris's fondness for numbers has led him to see significance in coincidences:

I've given numerous examples showing your belief in "coincidences" is skewed big time.

Remember this one:

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26525-unveiling-the-limo-stop/?do=findComment&comment=448433

 

 

I only have so much time, that's enough spent responding to your shortcomings.

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The blurry Bronson image really doesn’t show a lot, but you CAN see a “black stick” that is probably the AR-15.

On 11/23/2021 at 12:31 PM, Denise Hazelwood said:

re:---“The Bronson film shows Hickey seated at the moment of the assassination." ==  It does no such thing. 

It shows that Hickey was in a crouched position. He and Clint Hill were the most alert of all the other remaining party all night agents. I read that Hickey did not party the night before.

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AR-15 immediately removed from Secret Service arsenal after the assassination. The too-heavy firing pin making the AR-15 prone to slam fire means that Hickey didn’t even have to pull the trigger.

Well... so they said. Don't bet on it. The AR-15 is not a fully automatic rifle so a burst with one pull is not at all likely.

On 11/23/2021 at 12:31 PM, Denise Hazelwood said:

Shanklin memo noting that the “gun that apparently killed the President” was in the hands of the Secret Service on the same day as the assassination.

Proves nothing. Shanklin was just a stooge.

 

On 11/8/2021 at 6:04 AM, Benjamin Cole said:

Zero eyewitnesses.

And even fewer earwitnesses.

Hickey would have to have been up on a stepladder to even have deliberately fired into the limo. If shots were fired from the TSBD it would have not been from that Carcano that the cops waltzed out with....shots fired that may have at least hit Connally.

Kennedy was hit at least 4 times...2 from the front.

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I made the point that John Butler's witnesses are consistent with what we see in the home movies and photographs. The shooting happened on Elm Street, not Houston Street or Main Street or the middle of the Gobi desert.

John objected to this, but then for some reason cited aspects of their statements which actually support my case: the shots started "as the vehicle turned onto Elm St", "as the motorcade turned into the intersection", "after the President’s car turned down Elm St."

Those witnesses certainly do not support Denise Hazelwood's claim that there was no head shot at frame 313. Why John even brought them up in this context is a mystery.

As Karl Hilliard points out, the 'Hickey shot JFK' claim is nonsense. It's clear from the Bronson film that this did not happen.

This long-debunked theory was re-heated and served up on television at the time of the fiftieth anniversary in order to support the notion that Oswald shot JFK from the sixth floor without accomplices. The only remotely plausible way this notion could be correct is if the head shot, which cannot have come from the sixth floor, instead came from an unwitting source. George Hickey's recent demise was seized on to allow him to perform that role.

It's bizarre that someone should use this nonsensical lone-nut theory, which no serious student of the assassination supports, as part of a convoluted conspiracy theory.

To answer Denny's original question: the best way to deal with people who were duped into believing the 'Hickey shot JFK' theory is to get them to look at the Bronson film, which actually shows Hickey not shooting JFK. You could also point out to them that it is blatant lone-nut propaganda and that no-one with any real knowledge of the assassination takes it seriously.

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Denise hasn't answered the second part of Jonathan's question. What specific alterations to the film is she proposing?

I have demonstrated in my documentary a number of places where the Zapruder film can be shown to be altered: Clint Hill disappearing for a single frame, the "jumping lamp post," the impossible limo flag, JFK's "extra long arm," among them. I also reference John Costello's "blur mistake" (there are others I don't go into). I spend a whole episode demonstrating that the Film is not authentic. 

Once any part of the film is show to be fabricated, the entire film is suspect. 

Then one looks for other sources of evidence--especially witness accounts and early contemporaneous news accounts--both of which I make extensive use of in my documentary.

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Let me reply to John Butler's document in drips and drabs, starting with the first 10 witness account he describes. And while there are some witness accounts that are anomalous (e.g., shot on "Main Street") the key is to look for corroboration, and if that can't be found (thus making the account anomalous), then speculating on possible explanation.

 

1.    Harold Norman- 11-26-63 FBI statement Norman said he heard a shot as the vehicle turned onto Elm St.

Right! This was the "kill shot" shot in my documentary, seen by Alan Smith, Pierce Allman, others. There is corroboration for this.

2.   Bonnie Ray Williams- Sheriff’s Office on 11-22-63- first said he heard shot when the presidential limo turned onto Houston. Later, he changed that to a turn onto Elm St. and then later changed that.

 The closer to 100% certainty a witness is, the greater the probability that the witness is correct. Williams' uncertainty may be evident here. However (as I briefly mention in my documentary), there was not only the TSBD shot fired just after the limo turned onto Elm St., there was also the possibility of a Secret Service warning shot fired (by one of Johnson's follow-up car agents--see  Warren Taylor's opening door in the Muchmore film and the "rejected" impulse prior to the first "positive" match in the acoustical evidence. Being farther back in the motorcade, Johnson's agents had a better view of the TSBD window and may well have fired a warning shot before the first TSBD shot was fired.

Of course, a shot fired from the TSBD when the limo turned onto Elm St. fits #1 above.

3.   James “Junior” Jarman- Warren Hearing on March 24, 1964- At first, Jarman said much the same as Williams and Norman.  He later changed his testimony at the WC to hearing shots from low and to the left.  That is shooting from Houston Street.  This could be from the Dal-Tex.

 Houston St. could be my SS warning shot prior to the first assassination shot (from the TSBD). Two more shots fired from street level: another SS warning shot plus the AR-15 shot. 

Confusion as to the source of the shots when one is limited to "three" shots, perhaps?

4.   Mary Hollies- 2-18-64 statement to Detective Potts said she heard 3 shots as the motorcade turned into the intersection. She noticed smoke on a little hill over to the west.  Mary Hollies and Alice Foster are placed with 5thfloor witnesses due to Mary’s 6thFloor Museum interview in January, 2011.  This contradicts her earlier statements.

I discuss 5 shots in my documentary, with the acknowledged possibility of an additional warning shot before the first TSBD shot. "As the motorcade turned into the intersection" is somewhat problematic. Does "motorcade" mean the President's limo? Other motorcade vehicles? Her "smoke on a little hill" would be the AR-15 "puff of smoke" blown toward the north west direction by the wind.

5.   Betty Alice Foster-3-19-64 FBI statement- She heard something like fireworks after the President’s car turned down Elm St.

"Fireworks" was a common descriptor. The main problem is HOW MUCH after in "after the President's car turned down Elm St." I contend that the first TSBD shot came right at the end of the limo's turn but before proceeding any distance past the window 

6.    Elsie Dorman- 11-23-63 FBI report, 3-20-64 FBI report.  She thought shots came from the Court Records Building on Houston St. She became excited and quit filming at the time the President was on Houston Street at the Court Records Building.

Dorman was not hanging out the window, was still inside the building as she was filming. Given the various sources of the shots, she could well have been confused by the source of the shots. She did film limo on Houston St., lots of camera swinging otherwise. No guarantee her film didn't get "the (same) treatment" that the Z film & others got.

7.   Sandra Styles- In a statement made to the FBI on 3-19-64 she said she heard shots but, did not know where they came from and offered no other relevant information.  However, in a video published in October, 2017 she said as the presidential vehicle turned into the intersection she heard 3 shots.  Reference:  Jobert Jefford Paulson video, Oct. 17, 2017- The Case of the Lady Who Did Not See the Assassin.

I'll give you the SS warning just prior to the first TSBD shot (before or as the President limo was turning), the first TSBD shot (at the end of the turn) & the Altgens 6 shot (just a little farther down Elm St.) Those might be "as the presidential vehicle turned." Of course that leaves out the Connally shot and the double-bang (AR-15 + Tague miss).

8.   Vickie Adams- 11-24-63- She said when the president’s vehicle entered the intersection of Elm and Houston she heard 3 shots.  She could not see the shooting since it happened while the presidential limousine was under trees.  And, that would be in front of the TSBD.

"Under trees" would be the Altgens 6 shot, and possibly the others, depending on the view from her perspective if the trees were blocking.

9.   Dorothy Garner- 3-20-64 FBI report- When the shots occurred the presidential vehicle was out of sight, obscured by trees. This would be in front of the TSBD.

 Not necessarily "in front of the TSBD." How much of her view was blocked by trees? Possibly a good deal of Elm Street.

10.Yola Hopson- 12-1-63- FBI report- She heard two or more sounds / firecrackers when the presidential limousine was obscured by trees.  This would be in front of the TSBD.

 See #8 & #9 above. Trees could have blocked most of Elm Street, depending on the witness's view.

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Next 10 accounts in John Butler's document below. Watch the dates. The farther from 11/22/63, the more influence the news media (i.e., "three shots" would likely have had. I prefer same-day accounts when possible. Hard to follow my comments vs. bolding in Butler's original document, so I'll reply in Italics.

11.   Steven Wilson- 3-25-64- FBI statement- He said he heard 3 shots while the president was obscured by trees.  This would be in front of the TSBD.

 Again, "obscured by trees" doesn't necessarily mean "in front of the TSBD." Just that the witness's view was blocked by trees.

12.   Geneva L. Hine- 4-7- 64 Warren Commission statements- “I saw the President’s car coming and I saw the President and saw him waving his hand in greeting up in the air and I saw his wife and I saw him turn the corner and after he turned the corner I looked and I saw the next car coming just at the instant I saw the next car coming up was when I heard the shots.  The next car was the Secret Service vehicle which rode nearly on the bumper of the presidential limousine.  This means the shooting occurred in the intersection. 

The first TSBD shot did occur at the intersection, just after the limo finished its turn. This was sandwiched between a probable warning shot before the TSBD shot, and a definite warning shot after (the Algens 6 warning shot). The warning shots from SS hand guns at street level, though not from the same location (moving motorcade).

13.   Betty Jean Thornton- 11-24-63 FBI report- She said she was standing on the street when she heard shots as the president passed by.  They sounded like firecrackers. FBI Report 3 23 64- she was standing on Elm Street in front of the TSBD.

See #12

14.   Danny Arce- 3-18-64 FBI statement- He said he was standing on the grass in front of the TSBD about 30 ft. from where the president was when shots rang out.  He said something different in his in his 11-22-63 statement.  He was standing on a corner across the street from 411 Elm Street. He said in a 11-22-63 statement at the Sheriff’s Office he was standing on the corner of Elm and Houston.  He heard 3 shots ring out.  He was standing near the Dal-Tex on Houston- Altgens 6 photo.

Watch out for the optical illusion of the Altgens 6 making it appear as if some bystanders were in front of the Dal-Tex building. The access road in front of the TSBD makes it look like  Houston St. is right there, but it's the access road as can be seen by the boy in the dark jacket (Alan Smith?) in the Couch film.

15.   Carl Jones- 3-18-64 FBI statement- He was sitting on the front steps.  After the president passed by he heard 3 shots.

Witnesses were likely to under-report the number of shots. It's uncertain which three he heard, possibly misperceiving the double-bang as a shot + echo and missing the first TSBD shot.

16.   Virginia Rackley- 11-25-63 FBI statement- She was standing across the street from the TSBD.  As presidential limousine passed her location almost immediately, she her 3 shots. She was standing in front of the building on the north side of Elm. 

It's really hard to define what "immediately" means in her account. Also bear in mind the tendency to under-report the number of shots. More interesting is her description of "sparks" which I believe describes the skull fragment that landed near Charles Brehm.

17.   Jane Berry -FBI statement of 11-25-63- she was located just west of the TSBD when the motorcade came by.  Just as the car was passing by her she heard 3 shots. She thought the shots came from west of where she was standing.  There is a slight change in her location in her 3-19-64 FBI statement.  She said she was standing in front of the TSBD when the President’s vehicle passed by the building.  She heard 3 shots and saw the President slump over.

Standing in front of the TSBD on the west end of the building? Influenced by "three shots" in media accounts into thinking separate shots were "echoes" perhaps?

18.   Rosemary Willis- Interviewed by Joe Nick Patoski-  Rosemary: Anyway, it seemed strange to me. Then the next thing I know, the limousine is turning the corner again. Onto Elm. From Main to Houston to Elm. And so, just as they start, they've just made that turn, they're going along, and the first gun shot was fired.Immediately, I look up to where I thought I heard the sound, and what I notice is this pigeon, upon the impact .... Rosemary: As they made the turn from Houston to Elm Street, they'd just gone a few feet when the first shot rang out, and upon hearing the sound, my normal body reaction was to look up and follow the sound that I heard, it was so abrupt. I didn't know what it was, but I was looking for what I heard. And the pigeons immediately ascended off that roof of the school book depository building and that's what caught my eye. My eyes were searching for what I heard and I see the pigeons, you know, they're scared to death, and take off in abrupt flight. 

"As they made the turn from Houston to Elm Street, they'd just gone a few feet when the first shot rang out,"  Fits my first TSBD forehead shot scenario.

19.   Linda Willis- Warren Commission- July 22, 1964- that she was standing in front of the TSBD when the motorcade came by.  She initially said she heard shots there. Then, later she said she was standing across Elm Street from the Stemmons Freeway sign.  There is where she heard shots and saw the head shot. She said she was directly across the street from the Stemmons sign when the first shot hit him.  

By "across Elm Street from the Stemmons sign" she may have been indicating the south side of Elm Street rather than a location near Moorman & Hill. I really do like the account she gives of at least one of her father's pictures being altered.

20.Tina Towner- in a YouTube video, Witnesses to the JFK assassination: Three Dallas Stories- LA Times by Brian van der Brug, she said things that indicate shooting occurred as the presidential vehicle turned into the intersection and in front of the TSBD. The article said she stopped filming after the presidential limousine turned into the intersection.  If that’s true then who filmed her the rest of her film? Kodak plant in Rochester New York?

There are indications that Towner's film also got "the treatment., though a more crude version than the Z-film. Watch the head shapes. Note the missing frames. Probably Rochester, NY at Hawkeye Works.

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On 11/29/2021 at 5:01 PM, Chris Davidson said:

I only have so much time, that's enough spent responding to your shortcomings.

Exactly, in so many cases. Though I have trouble following the mathematical details of your work your integrity and persistence is greatly appreciated by some of us.   

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Ron Bulman writes:

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I have trouble following the mathematical details of your work

You aren't the only one, Ron! No-one else seems to know what Chris has been going on about either.

If anyone does understand it, perhaps they could help Chris out by providing us with a detailed explanation, using words rather than formulae and gifs (on the appropriate thread, not this one).

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Denise Hazelwood writes:

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Clint Hill disappearing for a single frame, the "jumping lamp post," the impossible limo flag, JFK's "extra long arm,"

In other words, it's just the usual parade of visual anomalies that anyone can find in poor-quality copies of the film, or in the photos and films of the moon landings, for that matter.

Does Denise's video provide an explanation of how these apparent anomalies might actually have been generated by a specific film-faking process? Or does she just list them, scratch her head, and declare the film to be altered?

Does her video answer any of the obvious questions, such as:

  • Is the film that's in the National Archives the actual film that was in Zapruder's camera, or is it a copy?
  • If it's a copy, how is that consistent with its apparent lack of any of the defects that would inevitably have been generated by the copying process?
  • If it's the actual film, how were the alterations made? Were the anomalies just painted in? If so, why would anyone have done that?
  • Do the supposedly faked elements of the Zapruder film match the relevant parts of the other assassination films and photos?
  • If they do, how can that be explained without the other images being faked too?
  • If the other images were faked too, how exactly was it done in each case?

For decades, people have been pointing to apparent anomalies in the Zapruder film and declaring it to be fake, only to discover that perfectly reasonable explanations exist for those anomalies, as Josiah Thompson explains:

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_Bedrock_Evidence_-_part_2.html

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Before going farther, I want to compliment John Butler on his compilation of 110 witness statements. A great many of the witnesses describe "the turn" onto Elm Street as the presidential limo's location for the first shot. Others do not, seeming to place its position in Altgens 6 as the "first" shot, although Kennedy is clearly already in distress by that point, in the "throat grab" position with Jackie's hands on his arm.

To quote myself in my documentary, “Most witnesses reported three shots, but they didn’t report the SAME three shots.”  Inattention blindness, especially for those witnesses right at the corner of Houston and Elm, caused them to miss the "moonwalking bear" of the first shot "in the turn." Watch Parts 7 & 8 of my documentary for more info on presidential limo placement at the time of a shot.

I would also like to point out Butler's acknowledgement that the Robert Croft photo may not be entirely authentic. It is not. Note Roy Kellerman's extraordinarily skinny neck as an example. Also the same type of JFK "grimace" Robert Harris describes in the Jim Towner photo. Also Linda Willis describing at least one of her father's photos being altered. Keeping my comments in Italics to differentiate from Butler's original comments. (His original comments include some dark bolding.)

Given that Butler and I agree on so many aspects of the case, I don't quite understand why he seems so resistant to my scenario? Photo alteration, film alteration, early first head shot, later AR-15 accidental shot. This scenario accounts for not only all the anomalies Butler describes, but also the gun smoke witnesses, the 6.0 mm entrance, etc. etc. described above.

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From Jeremy Bojczuk, 

Quote

For decades, people have been pointing to apparent anomalies in the Zapruder film and declaring it to be fake, only to discover that perfectly reasonable explanations exist for those anomalies, as Josiah Thompson explains: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_Bedrock_Evidence_-_part_2.html

The link does not provide satisfactory explanation. Mostly he dismisses everything as "an error" without providing further explanation. Just saying everything is "an error" on the part of the critics does not explain the anomalies. Plus there are Doug Horne's "Two NPIC Events" to consider, plus the film not matching witness accounts of JFK "bolting forward" (contrary to the film's "back, and to the left" head snap). Plus other anomalies. Plus Mary Moorman's account that the head shot was the NEXT shot AFTER she took her picture.  The Occam's Razor is that the film really IS a fake. 

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Also from Jeremy Bojczuk,

Quote

Does her video answer any of the obvious questions, such as:

  • Is the film that's in the National Archives the actual film that was in Zapruder's camera, or is it a copy?
  • If it's a copy, how is that consistent with its apparent lack of any of the defects that would inevitably have been generated by the copying process?
  • If it's the actual film, how were the alterations made? Were the anomalies just painted in? If so, why would anyone have done that?
  • Do the supposedly faked elements of the Zapruder film match the relevant parts of the other assassination films and photos?
  • If they do, how can that be explained without the other images being faked too?
  • If the other images were faked too, how exactly was it done in each case?

In response:

  • The film as found online is NOT the actual film that was in Zapruder's camera. As for what is in the Archives, I cannot say. Perhaps the original film is buried there somewhere. Maybe. However, the briefing boards in the Archives, per Doug Horne, match the extant fabricated film.
  • The same-day copies Zapruder had made would have contained the sprocket area images. 
  • I did discuss this briefly in my video. Composite imagery using an "aerial printer" involving blurs, splices, crude artwork, etc.
  • Maybe not exactly matching. All of the films and photos are suspect, like the Towner film, the Croft photo, the Willis photo (which Linda Willis specifically says was "altered" with the removal of "trains" although I believe it was more than just "trains" that were altered--note Hickey's weird head & ears in one Towner image)--all of which are mentioned in my documentary.
  • Other images WERE faked. See my comment immediately above.
  • In EACH case? Composite imagery, "accidental" damage, splices, blurs--a variety of techniques were used. All I have to do is demonstrate that SOME are suspect (as the Linda Willis interview demonstrates--which is in my documentary, and note the corroboration by Jim Towner about the missing "train") and ALL become suspect.
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Going back to John Butler's witness list, #31-40:

31.   Royce Skelton (on top of the triple overpass), November 22, 1963: “We saw the motorcade come around the corner and I heard something which I thought was fireworks.” [Sheriff’s Department affidavit: 19H496]

 

“Around the corner” meaning the turn.

 

32.   Ruby Henderson (on the north-east corner of Elm and Houston Streets), December 6, 1963: “Mrs. Henderson said at the time the motorcade passed where she was standing, she heard what she initially thought was a firecracker….” [FBI report: CE2089: 24H524]

 

Not just the timing of the shot, but also her “paper” that flew out of the car that she “later realized was flesh.” 

 

33.   Garland Slack- Dallas Sheriff 11 22 63- I was standing on Houston Street, just below the window to Sheriff Decker's office waiting for the parade. I was standing there when the President's car passed and just after they rounded the corner from Houston onto Elm Street, I heard a report and I knew at once it was a high-powered rifle shot.

 

I think Decker’s office was on Main, not Houston, although the Criminal Courts building was on Houston. Again, “rounded the corner from Houston onto Elm Street” is when the first TSBD shot happened.

 

34.   Clint Hill (Secret Service agent, on the follow-up car), March 9, 1964: “Well, as we came out of the curve, and began to straighten up, I was viewing the area which looked like a park. There were people scattered throughout the entire park.And I heard a noise to my right rear, which to me seemed to be a firecracker.” [Warren Commission testimony: 2H138]

 

Clint Hill’s “right rear” if he was looking to the left may not have been the same as the “right rear” of the car. HIS “right rear” would have been the right SIDE of the car. However, he only reported hearing two shots, so there is that. But coming “out of the curve” was probably the turn onto Elm.

 

35.   John Martin, Jr. (on the south side of Elm Street, north of the reflecting pool), March 31, 1964: “A few seconds after the President had passed and was departing from his view, he heard a loud report and first thought that it was a firecracker….” [FBI report: CD897], This means the shooting was on Houston Streetwhich is about 200 feet long.  A few seconds means about 18 feet per second at 200 feet is 11 seconds.  He says departing from view not out of view.

 

If he was on Elm Street, the President’s car would have been on Elm Street, not Houston. 

 

36.   Carolyn Walther- The Warren ReportPart 1CBS Television (25th June, 1967)- The President passed us, and he was smiling, and everybody was waving. Then the last of the cars went by, and I heard the shot. I thought it was a firecracker.

 

Too vague. Where was she standing? Where was the President’s car when she heard “the shot” (not necessarily the FIRST shot)?

 

37.   Arnold Rowland-Sheriff Office statement- 11-22-63- said as the presidential limousine turned west to head down Elm Street he heard a back fire. 

 

“Turn,” again. 

 

38.    Barbara Rowland- Sheriff’s Office 11 22 63- Barbara was with her husband, Arnold, on Houston Street.  She said “…in about 15 minutes the President passed where we were standing and turned left onto Elm Street and started toward the underpass when I heard a report and thought it was a firecracker…”

 

Vague. Shot just after the turn? Or when limo was. closer to the underpass?

 

39.   Ronald Fischer-Warren Commission 4-1-64- Hears a shot as the presidential limousine turns the corner unto Elm Street.

 

Heard a shot “as” the limo turned the corner.

 

40.Paul Landis- SA Landis’ version of the assassination he puts forward on the 27thand 30thof November, 1963- SA Landis said that the presidential limousine had just turned into the intersection of Houston and Elm Street and was just straightening from the turn in front of the TSBD when he heard the first shot.

 

“just straightening from the turn” means the end of the turn. However, I do take anything the SS agents say with a "grain of salt" given Hickey's and Roberts' dubiously authored memos.

 

 

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John Butler's witnesses #41 - 50, My responses in Italics.

41.   Warren Taylor (Secret Service agent, three cars back from the Presidential limousine), November 29, 1963: “Our automobile had just turned a corner (the names of the streets are unknown to me) when I heard a bang which sounded to me like a possible firecracker—the sound coming from my right rear.

 

Take his statement with a grain of salt. EVERYTHING was to his “right rear,” including the “streamer” he saw “close to the ground” near the President’s car, which was several cars AHEAD of his car. 

 

42.   George Hickey (Secret Service agent, in the follow-up car), November 22, 1963: “Just prior to the shooting I was seated in the rear of [the followup car] on the left side. As [the Presidential limousine] made the turn and proceeded a short distance I heard what seemed to me that a firecracker exploded to the right and rear.” [Statement: 18H765]

 

Too vague. What is “a short distance”? And note his dubiously authored memo.

 

43.   Jean Hill- Hill Exhibit # 5 in Warren Commission Hearings, XX, 158-  Hill Exhibit # 5 places Hill and Moorman on the SW corner of Houston and Elm Streets almost directly across from the SW corner of the TSBD.  11-23-63 FBI report- She said she was standing in the vicinity of the TSBD.  They were standing near Pierce Allman.  This is a sensitive topic.  Try to Mary and Jean one inch from their position in the Zapruder film and all hell breaks loose.

 

Moorman’s shadow in the Altgens 6 shows that she was definitely in the street in that pict. In some interviews she does say she stepped back up on the curb. In video interviews showing her in Dealey Plaza, she seems to be standing in roughly that same place as in the Z-film, although a Jean Hill drawing does seem to put them closer to the TSBD.

 

Most interesting is that she thought her pict was simultaneous with the “first” shot, which it clearly is not. (Inattention blindness). More important is that she heard “two more” shots AFTER she took her picture. 

 

Her pict may have undergone some alterations (in addition to the thumb print) while in the hands of the govt, but I don’t think it would have been extremely noticeable, since a blurry version of it was shown on TV not long after the assassination, and she never seemed to intimate that it had been altered—or at least never said so out loud.

 

44.   James Worrell- Warren Commission- 3-10-64- But as they went by, they got, oh at least another 50, 75 feet on past me, and then I heard the shots.  This was still in front of the TSBD.  The TSBD is 100 feet wide, a square building.

 

I believe Worrell was a 4-shot witness. Hard to pinpoint his or limo’s exact location, as he seems to have moved around.

 

45.   Jeanette E. Hooker- 1-8-64- estimated that the presidential limousine was almost to the R L Thornton sign when she heard 3 shots.  Almost to the R L Thornton sign means in front of the SW corner of the TSBD.

I think she missed some of the shots due to inattention blindness and/or misinterpretation.

 

46.    Mary Ann Mitchell- FBI report January 18, 1964, WC deposition April 1, 1964.said she and her companion heard a shot as the presidential car passed the curb in front of the TSBD.

 

Vague. As you point out, TSBD is 100 feet wide. She should have been asked to mark picts showing where she was standing, and limo/president’s position/s at the time of shots. Like many witnesses, she was not.

 

47.   T. E. Moore- FBI report 1-10-64- said when the president reached the R L Thornton sign he heard the first of 3 shots fired.

 

Not necessarily the “first” shot nor “of 3.” The “Thornton sign” could be the Altgens 6 shot?

 

48.   Welcome Eugene Barrett- July 23, 1964- Mr. LIEBELER - Now the motorcade made the turn onto Elm Street from Houston Street, and you were standing at approximately in position No. 9, and you indicated before that you heard the shots fired; is that right? 
Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir.

Position 9 is in the middle of Elm Street at the Elm and Houston intersection.

 

“Turn” again. 

 

49.   Mrs. Joseph Eddie Dean- 11-24-63 FBI report- She was standing on the steps of the TSBD when the presidential limousine was passing by she heard a rifle shot.

 

Vague, but probably reference to “turn”.

 

50.Ruth Dean-3-19-64 Warren Commission- She said she was standing on the steps of the TSBD as the motorcade passed by.  She heard 3 shotsand the president slumped.

 

Too vague.

 

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