How to debunk the George Hickey theory?

[John Butler]

29 minutes ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

if this one truly "escaped the dragnet" of film collection, as Butler asserts, it does not show any head shot on Main Street. 

This film does not show a head shot such as Zapruder on Main Street.  Just the back shot(s).  More than one.  There is a forehead wound fairly bloodless in appearance, IMO, but it is arguable.

Edited December 3, 2021 by John Butler

[Chris Davidson]

32 minutes ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

Chris Davidson, while I disagree (based on evidence presented by Butler) that the Jeargan film was altered, I absolutely agree that the Z-film was altered. That is one of the central tenets of my documentary. Too many witness accounts put a shot "in the turn." A small forehead wound (and the beginning of the back of the head blowout) would probably put more blood at the back of the head than the front, running down the back of his suit jacket (which is true of the pictures of his clothing, albeit on the left side, which would make sense if his head was turned to the right). Witnesses described him "slumping" which would hide his face from witnesses but might cause a smaller amount of blood to drip from the smaller entrance wound onto his pants.  I don't recall seeing any pictures of his pants, just his jacket and shirt, however. 

Great.

We agree the Zfilm was altered.

I don't disagree there was a shot near/around the turn.

I just don't agree that it was a headshot.

There are too many witnesses after the Elm St turn that describe looking closely at JFK smiling and waving well after the turn.

I would expect more facial blood from an actual gunshot hole than a BB wound.

More along this line:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rr4NwuGuI0

 

 

[Denise Hazelwood]

As I state in my documentary, I don't know whether JFK would have survived the first head shot. Malala Yousaifzai survived. I also discuss witnesses like Mary Pillsworth who thought JFK waved to her, and my belief that she misinterpreted his movement into decorticate posture as a "wave." Karen Westbrook, who initially saw Kennedy's "hair lift" with the first shot (along with his "awful, stunned expression") later seemed to forget that in her belief that Kennedy waved to her (again, a misperception of the decorticate posture reflex as a "wave." Alan Smith's "forehead" entry is clearly a head shot. While Ruby Henderson and Warren Taylor do not specifically say "head shot," it makes sense to connect Henderson's "paper"-turned-to-flesh and Taylor's "streamer" (and Franzen's "firecracker" fragments) with the "skull fragment" that landed near Brehm--though it landed there after first hitting Bobby Hargis' cheek. 

 

The movement into decorticate posture was a "Lazarus sign" (note the title of the video of the young gunshot wound victim going into this position that I share in the documentary). It fooled people into thinking that Kennedy was fine.

 

I like Alan Smith's "forehead" shot as matching Charles Crenshaw's "forehead" wound location, Dennis David's forehead wound location (based on the Pfitzer film), and other accounts of a "forehead" wound, not to mention Robert McLelland's belief in the forehead wound (even if he didn't see it) speculating that it was covered up by Kennedy's thick hair. Plus a forehead wound fits the back of the head blow-out, which many witnesses recalled.

 

[Denise Hazelwood]

Toni Glover: https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2013/11/20/nr-intv-toni-glover-witness-to-kennedy-assassination.cnn  abt 02:36

"He turned the corner, and his head exploded." 

[Denise Hazelwood]

Here is a picture of Glover on her pedestal. Although it does not specifically say she is looking towards where the limo was at the time of the first shot, it certainly matches Pierce Allman's location.   (Note that she later describes Jackie as "adjusting his collar" when his head exploded. I think she might be merging the first and 2nd head shots in her memory. Note that Jackie described herself as looking to the left at the time of the first shot.)

https://www.wnep.com/article/news/local/lackawanna-county/a-witness-to-tragedy/523-a0c48436-0034-4da5-b0a0-049f1366bb3c

[Chris Davidson]

Woodward was at approx extant z197 according to DR's map which is around Station# 3+61 around 110ft from the TSBD at Station# 2+50

Extant z207 physical location is Station# 3+71.1 about a 10ft difference between extant z197-z207.

No blood on JFK's face.

Three shots after it passes her.

She describes at least two shots approx 100ft farther down Elm.

Extant z313 shot at Station# 465.3

465.3 - 361 = 104ft.

In her interview in the documentary "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" she in essence says the last two shots overlapped each other in sound.

A lot of your work is compelling, I just don't agree with a headshot in/near the Elm St turn without some trace of facial blood being recognized from bystanders, intently looking at the president.

I do agree that she missed at least one early shot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John Butler]

3 hours ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

As I state in my documentary, I don't know whether JFK would have survived the first head shot. Malala Yousaifzai survived.

This is what I consider the head shot on Main Street.  It is as Alan Smith described.

A closer look matches an autopsy photo:

As I said earlier this could be considered arguable.  However, I think this is a real wound made by a weapon first described by Ron Bulman, the HS Man.  The DeLisle carbine.  This was a .45 caliber weapon devised in WWII for snipers.  It was sound suppressed to the point where you only heard the bolt action of the gun.  The British had a version based on the 9mm Sten. 

When I was a kid a restaurant owner who live down the street, a braggart and bully, was shot in the head at a card game.  He lived for years afterwards.  I didn't notice any difference in his behavior afterwards.  There are many examples of people taking horrendous head wounds such as a railroad spike in the forehead and not only living but doing things after the wound.  This was a major topic in a psychology class I had taken in college.

My thought is that Kennedy was shot in the forehead as noted by Alan Smith and this stunned him to the point he didn't react much to the back wounds.  He knew he should be smiling and waving to the crowd.  That's what he was there for, so he did.  I don't think this was involuntary.  He was still thinking, but just not rationally. 

  

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

Denise Hazelwood writes:

Quote

I absolutely agree that the Z-film was altered. That is one of the central tenets of my documentary.

John Butler agrees:

Quote

Not many people believe the Z film is real.

There must be many thousands of people with a detailed knowledge of the assassination. Only a tiny proportion has expressed any doubt that the film in the National Archives is genuine and unaltered.

Certainly, no-one has come close to demonstrating that it's a fake. As we've seen on this thread, the evidence for fakery boils down to:

• vague witness statements,
• everyday artefacts in several-generations-old copies of the film,
• and magic.

The magical part is the explanation of how the fakery was achieved. The Bad Guys waved their magic wands, and - hey presto! - the film was altered!

Denise and John, each of whom has stated that many of the other assassination films and photos were also faked, need to explain how all this fakery was actually achieved.

They could start by dealing with the point I made earlier, that the film in the Archives is not a copy; it is the physical film that was in Zapruder's camera.

How were the proposed alterations actually done without a final Kodachrome copy being made?

[Jonathan Cohen]

20 hours ago, John Butler said:

My thought is that Kennedy was shot in the forehead as noted by Alan Smith and this stunned him to the point he didn't react much to the back wounds.  He knew he should be smiling and waving to the crowd.  That's what he was there for, so he did.  I don't think this was involuntary.  He was still thinking, but just not rationally. 

Folks, take off your Billy Lovelady mask and call the Marguerite Oswald imposter(s) in from the kitchen, because John Butler is back with another absolute doozy: that President Kennedy was SHOT IN THE HEAD on Main Street, before the motorcade made the turn onto Elm, and NOBODY IN THE ENTIRETY OF DEALEY PLAZA NOTICED. President Kennedy's reaction to being shot in the head? Oh, he just kept smiling and waving because "he knew should," and because "that's what he was there for." John, you've left me speechless yet again.

[John Butler]

Hmmm?  Speechless?  I must have made a major impression.  But, don't worry it is simply a part of the "magic" of Dealey Plaza.  The dope culture psychologists and anthropologists of the early 60's were talking about alternate realities or separate realites at about the time of the JFKA.  Maybe that is what you are seeing.  A reality where there were no face masks, no Harvey and Lee, and no shooting on Main Street.  It is the "Warren Commission" reality. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by John Butler

[Denise Hazelwood]

John Butler,

Even though the article says "Main Street," Alan Smith was not on Main Street. He was on Elm directly under the TSBD window. IIRC, Pat Speer had an explanation for "Main" Street: Alan Smith was a 14 year old boy, not yet driving, and not all that familiar with the street names. If you read what else young Alan Smith says, it's clear he was on Elm Street. Here is the original article:

 

[Denise Hazelwood]

John Butler,

Note that the autopsy photos are not to be trusted. Most of the witnesses to Kennedy at Parkland and Bethesda indicated a BACK of the head blow-out. If you look at the autopsy X-ray buried in the HSCA documents with its "occipital defect" caption is probably the most authentic of the autopsy X-ray images, although even that one is suspect with its "white patch."  The commonly found "enhanced" images are actually composite forgeries,  cropping the HSCA lateral X-ray and compositing it with the "living" X-ray , as I think I've shown with my "lateral X-ray morph" video, thus explaining why the sella turcica is too large (per Dr. Michael Chesser) and other anomalies. The Mantik and Chesser descriptions of alterations are important, but also damning is Jerroll Custer saying, "These are fake X-rays" (along with the family of WH photographer Robert Knudsen describing for the HSCA how Knudsen described the pictures as having been "altered," and Saundra Spencer's testimony that there was "no correspondence" between the autopsy pictures she processed in 1963 and what appear to be the extant autopsy photos. (See Part 5 "The Images.")

I assume that you posit a track from the forehead to the back wound? But the back wound was a shallow wound, as described by witnesses, and the "king-size fragment" that caused the back wound fell out of the body during the autopsy. My scenario explains all of that.

 

[Denise Hazelwood]

Jeremy Bojczuk, 

I recommend watching Doug Horne's entire series from the Future of Freedom Foundation. Horne worked as an "analyst" for the ARRB. He describes the "Two NPIC Events" with the second event indicating that Z-film alteration occurred at the CIA "Hawkeye Works" laboratory in Rochester, NY. Within the Horne videos is an audio clip from Dino Brugioni, the CIA's leading film analyst, regarding the first event (involving the original Z-film).Go to https://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/article/altered-history-exposing-deciet-and-deception-in-the-jfk-assassination-medical-evidence-part-1/ for Part 1 video. You can link to the other parts from there (at the top of the page, under the title). I believe they're also on YouTube, but harder to find. IIRC correctly, it is Part 2 that deals specifically with the Z-film, though I could be mistaken. The whole thing is worth a view, however.

[Denise Hazelwood]

John Butler,

In addition to the "Main Street" error, there is something of an anomaly between Alan Smith saying that the shots came from the window  directly above him, and then later referring to "the Dallas (sic.) School Book Depository building where they said the shots came from." While admittedly this seems to make it appear as if the TSBD was a different building than the one he was standing in front of, I take this as Alan Smith not knowing the name of the building (much like he didn't know the names of the streets) and clumsily saying "where they said the shots came from" in his clumsy attempt to give the name of the building. But his descriptions of what happened next, inelegant though they may be, make it clear that the forehead shot was part of the assassination sequence--on Elm Street.

[Denise Hazelwood]

John Butler,

I asked a friend with a Newspapers.com subscription to dig up the 12/2/78 Edmonton Journal. As near as I can tell, the mention of the "blue-grey building" seems to come from Theodore White's book  In Search of History (1978 or 1979) I don't have the $ to buy the White book, which appears to be the source for the Edmonton Journal article. The Sydney Morning Herald August 13, 1978 also seems to mention "blue-gray building" but I don't have that particular article yet.  Given that White's original December, 1963 "Epilogue" article says "tunnel" (i.e., triple underpass), and that "tunnel" is in his (admittedly hard to read) handwritten notes (which I've linked above),. I suspect something got lost in translation between 1963 and 1978/9, somehow causing "tunnel' to be changed to "Blue-grey building." Just my 2¢. Might be interesting to see the original press release source for the Edmonton/Sydney articles, but I have no way of tracking those down. But given that the original article and handwritten notes both seem to say "tunnel," I'm not sure how "blue-gray building" got there. (sorry for my interchangeable spelling grey/gray--both the same to me).