Decide for yourself on the Carroll/Carrier issue

[Al Carrier]

I have observed postings on this forum calling for me to be kicked off for violating the rules of the forum and have received e-mails from members asking me to leave, as I attacked Tim without cause. Most of the these members do not know the background of what happened here and why I became defensive and stood up to Tim Carroll.

Allow me the opportunity to explain and feel free to go to Lancer and check their archives that support what I am posting.

I have been a law enforcement officer for nearly twenty-two years. The first twelve, I worked the overnight shift as a patrol officer, CSI and FTO. During that time, I had been stabbed on three seperate occasions, held the record for my department on being assaulted in a variety of ways and was forced to shoot an individual who attacked me with an edged weapon.

Also during that time period, I went through litigation on three seperate occasions, accusing me of brutality. Two being civil litigation and one through Federal Court for violation of rights. The latter was thrown out for lack of substance for the charge. The first two, one I was cleared on and the other the city settled out of court as it was not financially feasible to defend the case as the person was asking for a smaller monitary settlement than it would cost to fight it.

Tim got ahold of this back at Lancer and has labeled me a dirty/corrupt cop.

I have since worked in administration, running the training division and now as a Lieutenant/Watch commander. I have investigated complaints on officers and found that over ninety percent of the complaints on officers can be cleared by simply watching the in-car video recording of the suspected incident which shows the officer to be clean and the complainant to have filed a false complaint.

Tim judged me without cause and has labeled me guilty of misconduct and brutality simply because some derelict filed on me. The one that went Federal was an individual that was strung out on crack and went around ripping wood exterior doors off their hinges and assaulting and robbing the elderly in their homes. He had lost a tooth in a struggle during his arrest when he was caught in the act. This arrest occurred on the shift prior to mine and I was not involved in it. I had the pleasure of working in the jail that night and he accused me of brutilizing him all night in the jail, and knocking out his tooth. This individual was strung out on crack and outweighed me by fifty pounds.

Do I become defensive when my integrity is challenged by closed minds? Do I defend my career and occupation? Wouldn't all of you?

Judge for yourself and if you want me to leave the forum still, I will gladly walk away. If the term "idiot" has offended all of you so much, then we have nothing more to discuss.

How many law enforcement officers are their in the Kennedy Assassination Field? Does anyone wonder why?

Al

Edited December 25, 2004 by Al Carrier

[Denis Morissette]

You would be a great lost for the JFK assassination research community, Al. I hope you stay.

Next time you catch one of these rats who brutalize and terrorize people, please kick his rear for me.

[Nancy Eldreth]

Al,

You would be more than a great loss if you left.

Stay.

This is one of the better forums to be on, that is for sure.

I just wish for peace all the way around not only for everyone but also for myself.

That is what this is about to help facts comes out at the same time try hard to have it done peacefully.

Thanks for explainations behind it all. That also helps.

[Dawn Meredith]

I think you both got verly heated and neither of you would back down. It got to be a drag top see it.

I don't know you but I generally do like cops, as a defense atty have been friends with a few over the years.

I sure wish more law enforcement would get involved in the case. And I would hate to see anyone leave.

But, one person did get suspended. Then a second it seemed for defending the first. I was also verbally attacked but that was ok...Just seemed that the rules were not evenly applied. The SLA comment was truly OFFENSIVE.

And when only one person gets suspended that is unfair. YOu can tell your side but Tim cannot.

It was a two way street. But then "fights " aways are. There were some legit questions Tim asked of you that you ignored. I don't have it at the top of my head.

Just some thoughts before bed.

Dawn

I also have been a friend of Tim's since joining this forum, so I admit to being biased.

[Nancy Eldreth]

I had privately asked Tim to stay this time I didn't.

Because this time felt his heart to set on it.

I only hope one day he comes back and or goes to another forum and is happy.

What happened to Wim Dankbaar?

[Al Carrier]

I think you both got verly  heated and neither of you would back down. It got to be a drag top see it.

I don't know you but I generally do like cops, as a defense atty have been friends with a few over the years.

I sure wish more law enforcement would get involved in the case. And I would hate to see anyone leave.

But, one person did get suspended. Then a second it seemed for defending the first.  I was also verbally attacked but that was ok...Just seemed that the rules were not evenly applied. The SLA comment was truly OFFENSIVE.

And when only one person gets suspended that is unfair. YOu can tell your side but Tim cannot.

It was a two way street. But then "fights " aways are.  There were some legit questions Tim asked of you that you ignored. I don't have it at the top of my head.

Just some thoughts before bed.

Dawn

I also have been a friend of Tim's since joining this forum, so I admit to being biased.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dawn,

May I refer you to the Lancer Archives for our previous go-around? I agree that I used poor discretion in getting into it with Tim here, but I got a little sick of his "cop corruption" attitude in cases that are explained away by poor performance. LE are human beings and can be swept up in the heat of the moment like anyone else. Those who are poorly trained are more succeptable. I asked Tim to outline his issues with corrupt actions of the DPD. He instead posted identical postings attacking me on every current thread he could find. If you want Tim's story posted here on the forum, I suggest you e-mail him, get it and post it here for him. I would be interested to see what his defense is for his actions.

I have sustained too many physical scars and dealt with too many psychological delimas over the years in my job and seen too many quality LE officers go out on physical and mental disabilities at the rate of 30% (which should be higher but they cannot support their families on the pension), to take his abuse of this profession. Am I defensive when it comes to this? You bet I am. Will I be the first to scream dirty cop when I see it? Definately as that reflects on the majority who are trying to simply serve the public on a modest wage.

If you or anyone else would care to point out evidence of corruption and a role in the assassination by a DPD officer, please post it and we can address it. But I will not stand for labeling LE as corrupt and badge heavy as Tim so cowardly states at every challenge made to him.

Al

[John Simkin]

I think you both got verly  heated and neither of you would back down. It got to be a drag top see it.

I don't know you but I generally do like cops, as a defense atty have been friends with a few over the years.

I sure wish more law enforcement would get involved in the case. And I would hate to see anyone leave.

But, one person did get suspended. Then a second it seemed for defending the first.  I was also verbally attacked but that was ok...Just seemed that the rules were not evenly applied. The SLA comment was truly OFFENSIVE.

And when only one person gets suspended that is unfair. YOu can tell your side but Tim cannot.

I also have been a friend of Tim's since joining this forum, so I admit to being biased.

I have explained to you in a private email that this issue was far more than about a row between Tim and Al. It is because of the history of Tim’s behaviour that this action was taken. Tim is welcome to return to this forum if he is willing to abide by the rules.

This is the message Tim sent me at 7.50 on 23rd December:

Please remove my posts from the forum.

This is the message Tim sent me at 7.52 on 23rd December:

Please remove the seminars forthwith.

This is the message Tim sent me at at 7.45 on 24th December:

REMOVE ALL OF MY POSTS AND YOU WILL NEVER HEAR FROM ME AGAIN.

This is a time-consuming business but I will eventually carry out his request.

What happened to Wim Dankbaar?

I have had problems getting Wim to obey the rules of the forum since the first day he joined. It is no surprise that he has been suspended or barred from every other JFK forum. When he tried to stir up the Tim and Al dispute I decided that enough was enough.

Of course there is one forum where he will not be banned from – his own. If you are keen to discuss with Wim his views on the JFK assassination please join his forum here:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/forum/

By the way, thank you for all your supportive emails concerning the way I have dealt with this problem. So far, other than Tim and Wim, Dawn is the only one who appears to think I have behaved inappropriately.

[Guest]

As a "non combatant" as it were in this area of the forum I would like to post my support for John's actions.

After repeated requests to have all his posts and seminars removed and yet rather eccentrically continuing to post rather incoherently across the whole forum, deleting Tim Carroll was an entirely appropriate action.

Wim appears to be the short of character who enjoys the game "Let's you and he fight" and as John points out has struggled to comply with the forum guidelines from the start.

Hopefully these events will serve as reminder to all that there are guidelines here.

Free academic debate engaged in maturely and intelligently is wholeheartedly welcomed, aggressive and ancient squabbles brought in from elsewhere are not.

[John Ritchson]

Judge for yourself and if you want me to leave the forum still, I will gladly walk away. If the term "idiot" has offended all of you so much, then we have nothing more to discuss.

How many law enforcement officers are their in the Kennedy Assassination Field? Does anyone wonder why?

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Al,

Having been on both sides of the fence as it were...My Father has been involved with LE for over 50 years and still carries one of the oldest living badges in the State of Montana [#17 Cascade County Sheriff's Dept.] and is the former commander of the State Mountain Patrol S&E. I myself have had extensive dealings with various LE personel over the past 30 years as well as having seen the inside of a few jails. [i'm no Choir-Boy] I think I'm in somewhat of a unique position to comment on this issue.

Personally, I would like to have you remain part of this forum. I must confess that I was extreamly interested in your exchanges with Tim and Wim as it very plainly shows the dichotomy and deep rifts that exists between the various segments of our society, and the need for resolution. Also, I would ask you to remain as there are far too few people involed in this forum that have any extensive knowledge of firearms and ballistics. Quite frankly, more people like you are needed here.

If Tim and Wim have a problem following the rules of this forum then so be it. John Simkin has spelled everything out as plainly as I think is humanly possible and has been more than fair in his dealings with everyone which as far as I'm concerned should be commended.

People who are interested in [Flame-Wars] should go over to the alt.conspiracy.jfk newsgroup where they can flame away to their hearts content and leave this forum to the serious researchers. IMHO.

With respect to the issue of too few LE people involved in the JFK case: I am attempting to get the LE people I am personally involved with to at least check out this forum; quality people such as, Col. Craig Roberts(Ret.) who is a former marine sniper and former commander of the Tulsa Ok. PD-SWAT and who now runs a private agency, Centurian Investigations comprised of various LE officers as well as members of the 13 Sisters, and who is a personal friend. [For the laymen/women, the 13 Sisters are the various US Intelligence Agencys]

Finally Al, I'm am personally being besieged by private requests for ballistic information and I could use your help in fielding some of this as I am trying to compose an extensive article for posting here on my personal connection to the JFK case which involves individuals here-to-for unnamed but are now deceased relieving me of my confidenciality agreements.

As a Footnote:

I would also welcome Tim and Wim back to this forum if they can agree to abide by John Simkin's very basic and simple forum rules for civil discussion and dispense with the ad hominum behavior. [Nuff Said]

Respectfully:

[Al Carrier]

Judge for yourself and if you want me to leave the forum still, I will gladly walk away. If the term "idiot" has offended all of you so much, then we have nothing more to discuss.

How many law enforcement officers are their in the Kennedy Assassination Field? Does anyone wonder why?

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Al,

Having been on both sides of the fence as it were...My Father has been involved with LE for over 50 years and still carries one of the oldest living badges in the State of Montana [#17 Cascade County Sheriff's Dept.] and is the former commander of the State Mountain Patrol S&E. I myself have had extensive dealings with various LE personel over the past 30 years as well as having seen the inside of a few jails. [i'm no Choir-Boy] I think I'm in somewhat of a unique position to comment on this issue.

Personally, I would like to have you remain part of this forum. I must confess that I was extreamly interested in your exchanges with Tim and Wim as it very plainly shows the dichotomy and deep rifts that exists between the various segments of our society, and the need for resolution. Also, I would ask you to remain as there are far too few people involed in this forum that have any extensive knowledge of firearms and ballistics. Quite frankly, more people like you are needed here.

If Tim and Wim have a problem following the rules of this forum then so be it.

John Simkin has spelled everything out as plainly as I think is humanly possible

and has been more than fair in his dealings with everyone which as far as I'm concerned should be commended.

People who are interested in [Flame-Wars] should go over to the alt.conspiracy.jfk newsgroup where they can flame away to their hearts content and leave this forum to the serious researchers. IMHO.

With respect to the issue of too few LE people involved in the JFK case:

I am attempting to get the LE people I am personally involved with to at least check out this forum; quality people such as, Col. Craig Roberts(Ret.) who is a former marine sniper and former commander of the Tulsa Ok. PD-SWAT and who now runs a private agency, Centurian Investigations comprised of various LE officers as well as members of the 13 Sisters, and who is a personal friend. [For the laymen/women, the 13 Sisters are the various US Intelligence Agencys]

Finally Al, I'm am personally being besieged by private requests for ballistic information and I could use your help in fielding some of this as I am trying to compose an extensive article for posting here on my personal connection to the JFK case which involves individuals here-to-for unnamed but are now deceased relieving me of my confidenciality agreements.

As a Footnote:

I would also welcome Tim and Wim back to this forum if they can agree to abide by John Simkin's very basic and simple forum rules for civil discussion and dispense with the ad hominum behavior. [Nuff Said]

Respectfully:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

John,

Thank you for the kind words. I would be happy to answer some e-mails for you so you can do your work. Feel free to forward them to me at polinst@mchsi.com and I will do what I can. If they respond that they would prefer to hear directly from you, I will send them back to you.

Al