John Armstrong on Black Op Radio tonight

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, John Butler said:

Even a rejection or falsification of a hypothesis is worth knowing about.  And, that is the scientific method. 

Exactly!

 

[Jim Hargrove]

On 12/29/2021 at 8:30 PM, Greg Doudna said:

Micah the undelivered envelope is real and a mystery, but the part about a brown paper bag in the envelope that was undelivered is total invention, not known, no evidence or basis

Huh?

The FBI's airtel to Hoover dated 12/13/63 stated that the envelope "covers a long brown bag open at both ends."

And CE2444 identifies item Q265 as the envelope bearing an address for "Lee Oswald" and Q266 as "Accompanying portion of a long narrow paper bag...."

(Emphasis added by me)

[Jim Hargrove]

On 12/29/2021 at 11:23 PM, Greg Doudna said:

As I recall, the "half dollar bills" derived from some unidentified evidence photo in the Dallas Police Department archives, no evidence it was related to the Tippit/Oswald case, but that identification was invented, probably first as a conjecture ("could be!") and then became repeated as if it was a viable near-fact.

It is a relief to learn that an Evidence Fairy® apparently inserted the note about half bills into Oswald’s file.  Otherwise, we might assume that our patsy was using an existing CIA method for establishing identity and that would be… you know… too yucky!

[Pete Mellor]

10 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

It is a relief to learn that an Evidence Fairy® apparently inserted the note about half bills into Oswald’s file.  Otherwise, we might assume that our patsy was using an existing CIA method for establishing identity and that would be… you know… too yucky!

 

Jim, very many thanks for this thread, & J.A.'s H & L webpage piece on the Tippet killing.  Extraordinary work and great contributions from Forum members!

 

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Even a rejection or falsification of a hypothesis is worth knowing about.  And, that is the scientific method. 

Yet, so far no rejections from the Oswald lone nut members.  

[Al Fordiani]

19 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Armstrong's wording that I quoted isn't logical at all; Westbrook and Tippit had separate orders?

Yes, very separate orders.

Tippit was being set up to be killed.  Westbrook was in charge of managing that murder scene and planting the incriminating evidence against Oswald.

So I think nearly all of us could agree that there is no way that the conspirators would have had as original plan A to have Oswald taken alive and then killed in the jail 2 days later.

Obviously, there has been much discussion and speculation about it.

Armstong’s scenario here ties a lot of things together very neatly.  It certainly passes the test of Occam's razor, which is hard to do. 

Armstrong’s findings suggest conspirators Plan A was have Oswald board a bus. Westbrook and Croy intercept Oswald on the bus and shepherd him to a location. Tippit is ordered to same location. Oswald and Tippet would then both be murdered and the scene staged to look like they killed each other.  This is all supervised by Westbrook.  End result: Tippit is a hero.  The dead Oswald is obviously guilty in the Tippit shooting with the gun planted in his hand.  The important ID cards linking Oswald to Hidell (and so to the gun and JFK) are planted by Westbrook and found on Oswald at the Tippit scene.  Dallas end clean.  Investigation proceeds nice and easy from there.  No Texas Theater.  No arrest.  No press.  No “just a patsy.” No Ruby. No hard questions to answer.

But Oswald got off the bus and messed up the plan.  So there had to be some improvising.  Westbrook and Croy using DPD car 207 beep at Oswald’s trying to get back on plan, but he doesn’t come out.  Tippit still has to be murdered or there’s no reason to arrest Oswald, so it happens, but now everything gets messy.  The wallet plant can’t happen.  Oswald is in public and can’t be killed.  The rest is history and the mess helps us figure out what really happened.

It shows how much the DPD was willing to go along that Westbrook was able to massage everything internally right down to Croy making way for Ruby.

In all the assassination research it is hard to name names.  I now believe we can name Westbrook as a conspirator before the fact.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Al Fordiani
Fix typos

[Micah Mileto]

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

 

I wonder what became of the currency in "Oswald's pocket"? I don't think we have any pictures of those.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Micah Mileto

[John Butler]

On 12/30/2021 at 7:54 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

The closest was surely Domingo Benavides, who was about 15 feet away.  Benavides testified that the shooter looked like Oswald except for the fact that his hair was cut differently in the back.  

Jim,

I know who it was.  Should I drag out the mystery for a couple of days.  Nah.  It was Gary Olman.  He went back in time and became an Oswald doppelganger.  See the comparison.

Just kidding.  But, it illustrates what Benevides was talking about.  I wasn't able to find any pics of Lee that would show his hair on the nape of the neck.  

I did look at this crop of the civil air photo, but it has Lee with a new haircut and not so relevant.

Judging from this Lee could lack the problem of Harvey's back of the neck hair problem.  But, he appears to have had a haircut which gives no real way to say.

For those critics that argue there was only one Lee Harvey Oswald, check out the missing front teeth.  Harvey, when he was dug up out of his grave, had all of his front teeth.  

Edited December 31, 2021 by John Butler

[Greg Doudna]

10 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Huh?

The FBI's airtel to Hoover dated 12/13/63 stated that the envelope "covers a long brown bag open at both ends."

And CE2444 identifies item Q265 as the envelope bearing an address for "Lee Oswald" and Q266 as "Accompanying portion of a long narrow paper bag...."

(Emphasis added by me)

I stand corrected Jim! You are right! 

However in trying to make sense of this the idea of someone mailing a piece of an empty brown paper wrapping, as the entire contents of that envelope, so that when Oswald opened the envelope and took out the plain brown paper with nothing else he would get a fingerprint on it, and that would match to the kind of bag in which he was accused of having brought the rifle, and somebody would have "got him" with that evidence--that is what is just imagined. In default of evidence otherwise, it just seems most obviously likely the "portion of long narrow paper bag ["open at both ends"] and strip of brown corrugated paper" was used as wrapping of something, perhaps a publication or piece of literature. 

Is that "portion of long narrow paper bag" in the National Archives today? It could be confirmed or excluded as being of the same type or kind as the paper of the paper bag associated with the rifle. Has that question been asked and answered?

But never mind that. I spoke amiss, and your correction is valid, thanks.

[Greg Doudna]

10 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

It is a relief to learn that an Evidence Fairy® apparently inserted the note about half bills into Oswald’s file.  Otherwise, we might assume that our patsy was using an existing CIA method for establishing identity and that would be… you know… too yucky!

What is the evidence that is in, or ever was in, Oswald's evidence file? Where is it today?

[Matt Allison]

20 hours ago, Al Fordiani said:

Plan A was have Oswald board a bus. Westbrook and Croy intercept Oswald on the bus and shepherd him to a location.

That's not what Armstrong says in the first post of this thread. He says they were to kill him.

[Al Fordiani]

8 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

That's not what Armstrong says in the first post of this thread. He says they were to kill him.

Dude, did you read the whole post?

Seriously.

Tippit and Oswald would then both be murdered at that location.

If you can’t read the whole post, then it’s a waste of time.

[Matt Allison]

And for what possible reason would such a convoluted, Rube Goldberg-esque scenario be contemplated?

[Jim Hargrove]

On 12/31/2021 at 4:26 PM, Greg Doudna said:

What is the evidence that is in, or ever was in, Oswald's evidence file? Where is it today?

Good questions!

There's some other info on a different subject I'm planning to put up here tomorrow, and I'm still recovering from The Holidays (which at my age is hardly instantaneous), but I'll try to post ASAP the info I have.  There's an Ed Forum thread from a few years back that has a lot of info on this question, and I have more to add.

If I don't respond to this in a few days, please feel free to remind me.  In the meantime, here are the two most interesting docs I know of about this....

And this....

 

[Micah Mileto]

In the realm of non-medical evidence, sometimes it may be tempting to fall into the fatigue of having so few smoking guns that can be summarized in an elevator pitch, but then folks like John Armstrong pour water on you and jolt you awake.

[Greg Doudna]

4 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Good questions!

There's some other info on a different subject I'm planning to put up here tomorrow, and I'm still recovering from The Holidays (which at my age is hardly instantaneous), but I'll try to post ASAP the info I have.  There's an Ed Forum thread from a few years back that has a lot of info on this question, and I have more to add.

If I don't respond to this in a few days, please feel free to remind me.  In the meantime, here are the two most interesting docs I know of about this....

And this....

 

Except that lower, larger boxed photocopied caption from who knows where, where does that come from? The upper, smaller boxed caption looks like an identifier on a reproduction from something from the Dallas Police Department, no problem with that. But that lower, larger boxed caption does not read like a Dallas Police Department evidence caption or DPD authored. Is it? Says who? Is it a caption taken from a book? How is that lower, larger boxed caption from who knows where verified to be stating accurate information? I hope you recover from your new year's eve bash in good order 🙂, and in due course be able to tell where that lower caption is from and how it is known those dollar-blll halves are known to be associated with Oswald. (I am not opposed to learning verification for this, would welcome it if so, but just a question of asking for the footnote please!)