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John Armstrong on Black Op Radio tonight


Jim Hargrove
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John Butler writes:

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Neither of you can disprove what I am saying.  It isn't up to me to disprove what I am saying.

John seems confused. Again, it is up to him to prove his case. He needs to do more than come up with speculative assertions based on imaginary differences between earlobes in poor-quality photographs.

I presume John accepts my theory of a long-term doppelganger scheme involving JOHN Fitzgerald Kennedy (the English-speaking American politician) and John FITZGERALD Kennedy (the Albanian-speaking refugee orphan from New Zealand). I mean, just look at the photographs! Look at the earlobes!

I think my 'Fitzgerald and John' theory has a lot of mileage in it, especially as no-one has yet proved it wrong. Go on, prove that one of them didn't turn into a penguin! You can't, can you?

It should be a big commercial success, unlike the 'Harvey and Lee' theory. The Hollywood studios will be all over my forthcoming 900-page book, Fitzgerald and John (Soon to be a Major Motion Picture!) . It'll have something for all the family: violent death, doppelgangers, alien abduction, and penguins. Everyone likes penguins!

Obviously, there is a downside. Like 'Harvey and Lee', 'Fitzgerald and John' is liable to make the general public think that all critics of the Warren Commission are a bunch of cranks. But who cares about that?

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Returning to a point I made earlier, perhaps John Butler could resolve a problem with his preferred doppelganger theory. Back in the late 1940s or early 1950s, we are told, masterminds in the CIA intended to send a false defector to the Soviet Union at some point in the future. The candidate needed to have a plausible American background, ideally as a US serviceman, and he needed to be able to understand Russian.

They had a simple and obvious solution: look at the millions of US servicemen who had genuine American backgrounds, find one with a talent for languages, and get him to learn Russian to the required level.

Instead, according to the 'Harvey and Lee' theory, the supposed masterminds set up a complicated, decade-long scheme involving a pair of unrelated doppelgangers, a presumably large number of support staff, and (as John Butler has pointed out) a team of photo-alteration experts specialising in earlobes.

Why did they choose the complex and obscure solution over the simple and obvious solution?

Why did they use doppelgangers when there was no need to do so?

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5 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

John seems confused. Again, it is up to him to prove his case. He needs to do more than come up with speculative assertions based on imaginary differences between earlobes in poor-quality photographs.

Did you even read what I said?  I talked about teeth and one having a full set of upper teeth and the other missing upper teeth.  Harvey had all of his teeth when he went into the Marine Corps.  Lee lost some of his in a high school fight about the 9th grade at 14 or 15.

The photos are not poor quality.  You can clearly see missing teeth for Lee and Harvey having a full set when they were teenagers.

Go back and read what I said rather than making up things.  I can see why you are doing that.  You simply have no facts to counter what I have said.

This is all I will have to say about this.

Edited by John Butler
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Good points, John!  Let’s chew on some more facts that, like the missing teeth, DID happen in this case.  So….

Two Hidell I.D. cards were “found” by Capt. Westbrook and Ken Croy in an Oswald wallet at the Tippit murder site (10th and Patton).  When were these IDs from the 10th and Patton wallet moved to the other Oswald wallet taken from Lee HARVEY Oswald soon after his arrest?  Let’s call this the arrest wallet.

Around 2 pm Friday, DPD officer Paul Bentley removed Oswald’s wallet from his pants pocket while the men were riding in Capt. Westbrook’s car.  Bentley eventually gave the wallet to Lt. Marrion Baker, who left it on a table in the Homicide and Robbery interrogation room.  

The FBI listed twelve items in the arrest wallet, but three different photos were listed as item #11, and so there were actually a total of 14 items.

14_items_from_arrest_wallet.png

The two Hidell IDs were not listed by the FBI at that time, nor were they photographed that afternoon.  A Fair Play for Cuba card found in the arrest wallet was signed by A.J. Hidell, but the two Hidell IDs simply were not there.

WESTBROOK AND CROY

sss.pngAlex_James_Hidel_USMC_Cert_of_Serl.png

When were the Hidell IDs belatedly added to the alleged contents of Oswald’s wallet?  Who did it?
Read John A’s answers by reading the following article, starting about two-thirds of the way down the page:

WESTBROOK AND CROY

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4 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Good points, John!  Let’s chew on some more facts that, like the missing teeth, DID happen in this case.  So….

Two Hidell I.D. cards were “found” by Capt. Westbrook and Ken Croy in an Oswald wallet at the Tippit murder site (10th and Patton).  When were these IDs from the 10th and Patton wallet moved to the other Oswald wallet taken from Lee HARVEY Oswald soon after his arrest?  Let’s call this the arrest wallet.

Around 2 pm Friday, DPD officer Paul Bentley removed Oswald’s wallet from his pants pocket while the men were riding in Capt. Westbrook’s car.  Bentley eventually gave the wallet to Lt. Marrion Baker, who left it on a table in the Homicide and Robbery interrogation room.  

The FBI listed twelve items in the arrest wallet, but three different photos were listed as item #11, and so there were actually a total of 14 items.

14_items_from_arrest_wallet.png

The two Hidell IDs were not listed by the FBI at that time, nor were they photographed that afternoon.  A Fair Play for Cuba card found in the arrest wallet was signed by A.J. Hidell, but the two Hidell IDs simply were not there.

WESTBROOK AND CROY

sss.pngAlex_James_Hidel_USMC_Cert_of_Serl.png

When were the Hidell IDs belatedly added to the alleged contents of Oswald’s wallet?  Who did it?
Read John A’s answers by reading the following article, starting about two-thirds of the way down the page:

WESTBROOK AND CROY

Jim,

Fascinating stuff.  I have tried to avoid the Tippit murder basically because I didn't know that much about it.  However, I got involved with the Tippit autopsy.  Guess who would have done the Kennedy autopsy (if his body wasn't kidnapped and taken to Washington), the Tippit autopsy, and the Harvey Oswald autopsy?

Our Man in Dallas, Earl Rose.  Why would he have done all 3?  Wasn't there anyone else in Dallas capable of doing autopsies?  Was he the county coroner?  The only person available?  Would being available to do all 3 indicate knowledge beforehand or someone knowing the system could use this in pre-planning?

The reason I ask is due to what he did in the Tippit autopsy.  I responded to a David Josephs comment some time back by saying essentially something was wrong with the autopsy.

I went on to indicate there was fraud in the autopsy and charged Dr. Earl Rose with falsifying information on the head shot wound in the autopsy. 

Here's what bothers me.  No one came out and called me a XXXX or a fool for saying such a thing.  No one said that's just speculation with no proof.  No one contested my analysis.  A great silence was heard.  One person, David Andrews made a comment.

I would think this would be of big news to the research community.  Again, the great silence.  So, I don't know how to respond to this hence this gripe.

  

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John,

I'm starting a major check on Earl Rose.  Thanks!

In the meantime....

At 10:45 am on the Sunday morning when Lee HARVEY Oswald was shot dead, DPD officer Brock was replaced by a “Reserve Officer” at his post just a few feet from where Ruby killed “Oswald.”

Was that Reserve Officer Kenneth Croy?

Parking_with_description_copy.png

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1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I'm starting a major check on Earl Rose.  Thanks!

Jim,

I will redo what I have said on the forum earlier and email a pdf to you with my analysis.

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6 hours ago, John Butler said:

Our Man in Dallas, Earl Rose.  Why would he have done all 3?  Wasn't there anyone else in Dallas capable of doing autopsies?  Was he the county coroner?  The only person available?  Would being available to do all 3 indicate knowledge beforehand or someone knowing the system could use this in pre-planning?  

Earl Rose was the medical examiner of Dallas at the time. There is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary to be made of the fact that he would have performed President Kennedy's autopsy or that he did in fact perform the autopsies of J.D. Tippit and Lee Harvey Oswald. As usual, you are implying something sinister and conspiratorial when there is zero evidence to support it.

6 hours ago, John Butler said:

I would think this would be of big news to the research community.  Again, the great silence.  So, I don't know how to respond to this hence this gripe.

There's "great silence" because nobody takes these ridiculous claims seriously.

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1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

And Earl Warren was the Chief Justice of the United States.  Nothing wrong with the WC Report, eh?

The usual false equivalency from the H&L gang who can’t shoot straight. Earl Rose’s job was to perform autopsies. That’s what he did the weekend of the assassination. Nobody had to strong-arm him into doing it, as Lyndon Johnson did to Earl Warren. The larger point is that once again John Butler is making wild proclamations about fraud in the Tippit autopsy that are unsupported by any actual evidence.

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John Butler writes:

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I talked about teeth and one having a full set of upper teeth and the other missing upper teeth.  Harvey had all of his teeth when he went into the Marine Corps.  Lee lost some of his in a high school fight about the 9th grade at 14 or 15.

Lee Harvey Oswald was one person, and did not lose any of his teeth in a fight at school. This topic was discussed back in 2020, when we discovered, unsurprisingly, that yet another piece of 'Harvey and Lee' evidence possessed a plausible, everyday explanation. In fact, it possessed three plausible, everyday explanations:

If even one plausible, everyday explanation exists for a body of evidence, there is no good reason to invent a far-fetched explanation involving doppelganger Oswalds, doppelganger Marguerites, a team of expert photo-fakers, imaginary face masks, and strange earlobes.

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Since this thread is about a public pronouncement by John Armstrong, and since Jim Hargrove is back on the scene, perhaps I could ask Jim a related question.

There is a crucial element of the 'Harvey and Lee' theory which, as far as I can tell, is not dealt with in Armstrong's book, Harvey and Lee. But I may have missed it. If I have, would Jim be kind enough to provide me with a page reference?

Alternatively, if Armstrong has dealt with this question online, could Jim provide me with a link?

The element in question is central to the 'Harvey and Lee' theory. Armstrong tells us the ultimate purpose of the double-doppelganger scheme, but he doesn't appear to tell us why this particular solution was chosen to fulfil that purpose.

We are told that CIA masterminds wanted to recruit someone to be a false defector to the Soviet Union at some time in the future, and that there were two requirements:

  1. The candidate needed to have a plausible American background, ideally as a serviceman.
  2. The candidate needed to be able to understand Russian.

What Armstrong doesn't appear to tell us is why the masterminds would have decided to set up a remarkably complicated long-term scheme involving:

  • a pair of unrelated doppelganger Oswalds, each of them native speakers of different languages and selected as boys in the hope that when they grew up they would turn out to look near-enough identical,
  • and a pair of unrelated doppelganger Marguerites,
  • and however many people were needed to keep the two households going,
  • and a team of photo-fakers and document-fakers.

Why would the masterminds have gone to all this trouble? They would surely have worked out a far more obvious and straightforward way to achieve their goal:

  1. Of the millions of US servicemen who possessed a genuine American background, we'll find one with a talent for learning languages.
  2. We'll allow him to learn Russian to the required level, and provide whatever tuition is necessary.

That's it. No doppelgangers were required. No photo-fakers were required. Only one person (the defector himself) needed to be recruited, rather than four or more:

  1. the defector,
  2. the defector's mother,
  3. the defector's doppelganger,
  4. and the defector's mother's doppelganger,
  5. not forgetting the other members of the Oswald family who were also apparently in on the scam.

There appears to be a significant gap in the 'Harvey and Lee' theory. A crucial element of the theory has not been explained. Why would the masterminds not have used the obvious and straightforward solution? Why would they have used the much more impractical solution instead (in the unlikely event that this far-fetched idea even occurred to them)?

If those masterminds existed, they must have had a good reason for doing what Armstrong claims they did. What was their reasoning?

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Jim,

I didn't know that Dr. Earl Rose was offered a new position of coroner for the city and county of Dallas in June, 1963.  He moved there directly afterwards.  Supposedly, this was to do a better job and replace the inadequate system of lay, elected coroners in the city and county for Dallas, Tx.

This would come to mean that Dr. Earl Rose would do the autopsy of President Kennedy, Officer Tippit, Patsy Oswald, and Mad Jack Ruby, all of the main conspiracy deaths.

And, he didn't lose any time in doing those autopsies except for Kennedy.  Kennedy was whisked away and out of his clutches.  But, the others were done quickly.  Something like an hour or two after death.  Nothing would stand in his way with the judicial system being as responsive as him for those deaths.

The new system worked and worked rapidly at least as far as handling the major deaths that would come to make up the Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories.  He even said later if he had been allowed to do the Kennedy autopsy there wouldn't have been any conspiracy theories because he would have done it right.

tippit-head-wound.jpg

These are questions for Jonathan and Jeremy.  Is a head wound shown here?  Where is this head wound located on Officer Tippit's head?  Where would you locate this entrance wound?  Is it an entrance wound?  What skull structures were first penetrated by the bullet that made this wound?

Can you answer these questions?

 

 

 

Edited by John Butler
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2 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Why would the masterminds have gone to all this trouble? They would surely have worked out a far more obvious and straightforward way to achieve their goal:

  1. Of the millions of US servicemen who possessed a genuine American background, we'll find one with a talent for learning languages.
  2. We'll allow him to learn Russian to the required level, and provide whatever tuition is necessary.

That's it.

 

(1) It's not just finding one serviceman with a talent for learning languages.  It has to be one with that talent and willing to defect and passing security checks, etc.  That would cut the millions down to some significantly lower number. Guessing it would be lower than 100.

(2) Russian is not as easy to learn as French, Spanish, Italian etc. It has a different alphabet and pronunciations.  In fact, isn't it one of the most difficult to learn? This also makes the recruitment more difficult and the pool smaller.

(3) I remember seeing an old 60 minutes show, back in the 70s or 80s, where it was stated that languages are most easily learned by children.  The difficulty learning a new language increases significantly after the age of 12.  I remember this because we didn't start until age 16 in high school and I remember how difficult it was.  

(4) I assume that the eligible population of servicemen would probably be also limited by the number of career service members who would be ruled out so the original millions would probably be down to the 100Ks or so on their first enlistment.  It would be an easier sell as a defector than a career person.

(5) Assuming we find a handful of candidates from the reduced pool:

So it seems to me it would be a lot more difficult to do this way than implied by - all we have to do is find one from the 3 million service members and not so obvious or straightforward.

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Bill Fite said:

So it seems to me it would be a lot more difficult to do this way than implied by - all we have to do is find one from the 3 million service members and not so obvious or straightforward.

 

Bill,

I really don't pay much attention to Jeremy and Jonathan's talking points.  They keep saying the same things over and over again.  It doesn't matter if you answer them or not.  They will ignore whatever facts, logic, and reasoning you answer with to their statements.  And, they will boldly proclaim that you haven't answered their questions and you are wrong based on their reasoning without providing any facts to back up what they say.  At best they will refer you to someone else.

Just read what Jim Hargrove has said over time in answer to that question and their responses.  He has far more patience with them then I do.   

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