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Jefferson Morley on JFK Revisited


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2 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

That may be true to a degree because people are naturally suspicious and amenable to conspiracies. I believe Uscinski mentioned that most people probably believe in at least one conspiracy.

Well, they are a part of history.  I mean Jesus, didn't the priest's pay Judas 30 coins of silver for a kiss?  John Wilkes Booth was the lone assassin of Abraham Lincoln, in essence the founder of the republican party.  Who had conspirators that were caught and executed.     

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12 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Well, they are a part of history.  I mean Jesus, didn't the priest's pay Judas 30 coins of silver for a kiss?  John Wilkes Booth was the lone assassin of Abraham Lincoln, in essence the founder of the republican party.  Who had conspirators that were caught and executed.     

Yes, Uscinski notes several examples of real conspiracies in the book and differentiates between these and conspiracy theories. 

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4 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

No.

EDIT: Should have said I don't believe in conspiracy theories. Conspiracies have, of course, occurred in history.

Respectfully, the above type of response is why I stopped posting here.  

Edited by Cory Santos
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4 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

No.

EDIT: Should have said I don't believe in conspiracy theories. Conspiracies have, of course, occurred in history.

Tracy just for clarification of definition, do you suspect the Jimmy Hoffa killing was the result of a conspiracy (two or more persons premeditating the murder, instead of just one)? 99.9% of other people do. Yet that has never been established in the sense of a formal finding by a court or epistemological authority. Is the belief held by the 99.9% of people who just assume Hoffa was whacked in a gangland contract killing of some sort (conspiracy) a "conspiracy theory" or a "conspiracy fact"? What do you think about the Hoffa killing and does that make you a believer in at least one conspiracy theory, in that case? If not, why not? (according to operable definitions)

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20 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

Tracy just for clarification of definition, do you suspect the Jimmy Hoffa killing was the result of a conspiracy (two or more persons premeditating the murder, instead of just one)? 99.9% of other people do. Yet that has never been established in the sense of a formal finding by a court or epistemological authority. Is the belief held by the 99.9% of people who just assume Hoffa was whacked in a gangland contract killing of some sort (conspiracy) a "conspiracy theory" or a "conspiracy fact"? What do you think about the Hoffa killing and does that make you a believer in at least one conspiracy theory, in that case? If not, why not? (according to operable definitions)

Yes, I suspect Hoffa was killed by the Mafia, but I don't know that for a fact and have no proof. It could have been more than one person or just one and they could have been Mafia or not. I checked Uscinski and he has nothing on Hoffa. I suspect he would say it is a conspiracy theory until proven otherwise.

I think the problem here is that the conspiracy people take great offense at the term conspiracy theorist. They think it is a pejorative term and in some cases they are right (it depends how it is used). I believe if you read my remarks on forums and my articles that I don't have a history of calling people names. In fact, I could not exist here at EF if I did that.

I did attach the title to Morley for a couple of reasons. First, he is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say he is not a CT. But, at least lately, he has said LHO was a patsy which indicates a conspiracy by default. He has also started using some of the tactics of the more extreme CTs by attacking Alecia Long unfairly as I have alluded to.

Additionally, and most importantly, I hold Morley to a higher standard because he still wears the mantle of a journalist even though he really is not one at this point. 

So, my ire is not directed at the average guy posting on forums and certainly not at you Greg. My impression is that you play the part of a devil's advocate and lay out some of the things that you do to promote discussion. Which is fine and likely useful to many.

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21 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:
On 1/17/2022 at 7:33 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

Do you believe in any conspiracies Tracy?

... I don't believe in conspiracy theories. Conspiracies have, of course, occurred in history.

 

16 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

... I suspect Hoffa was killed by the Mafia, but I don't know that for a fact and have no proof.

 

Okay, so you don't believe in conspiracy theories. And yet you do theorize that Jimmy Hoffa was killed by the Mafia. Which contradicts your earlier statement, and ironically makes you a conspiracy theorist.

You know what... I have a theory about you, Tracy, that explains your seeming contradiction. I suspect that you don't believe in conspiracy theories in general, but you do believe in your own conspiracy theories. Did I get that right?

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

 

Okay, so you don't believe in conspiracy theories. And yet you do theorize that Jimmy Hoffa was killed by the Mafia. Which contradicts your earlier statement, and ironically makes you a conspiracy theorist.

You know what... I have a theory about you, Tracy, that explains your seeming contradiction. I suspect that you don't believe in conspiracy theories in general, but you do believe in your own conspiracy theories. Did I get that right?

 

No, I don't know who killed Hoffa and I have no theory and really don't care. He may have been killed by a mob conspiracy. But it is not a theory I promote. I am not writing books about it or posting on forums.

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14 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

No, I don't know who killed Hoffa and I have no theory and really don't care. He may have been killed by a mob conspiracy. But it is not a theory I promote. I am not writing books about it or posting on forums.

Okay, so the "mob killed Hoffa" theory isn't your theory. But it is a conspiracy theory and you do believe it. Therefore, you do believe at least one conspiracy theory.

So why did you say that you don't believe in conspiracy theories?

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On 1/16/2022 at 4:15 PM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Like it or not, the epistemological authorities in this matter have spoken. They are the WC, the HSCA, the Church Commitee, the Clark Panel, the Dallas Police, the FBI and so on. Oswald is guilty, not legally, but as a practical matter.

Phew! Epistemology:-the theory of knowledge, the critical study of its validity, methods and scope.

So, Tracy, do you support and stand by the validity, methods and scope of the above government committees, panels, DPD & FBI etc.?

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2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Okay, so the "mob killed Hoffa" theory isn't your theory. But it is a conspiracy theory and you do believe it. Therefore, you do believe at least one conspiracy theory.

So why did you say that you don't believe in conspiracy theories?

No, I don't believe it. I suspect it could be true but I don't believe it. One day, it may be proven and then I will believe it.

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1 hour ago, Pete Mellor said:

Phew! Epistemology:-the theory of knowledge, the critical study of its validity, methods and scope.

So, Tracy, do you support and stand by the validity, methods and scope of the above government committees, panels, DPD & FBI etc.?

I believe that the investigations by the WC and HSCA were imperfect since human beings conducted them. But I think that they reached the proper conclusion-Oswald was guilty.

There will always be data that points away from a specific conclusion. It happens all the time in criminal cases and investigators, lawyers etc. know this. In the JFK case there are over five million records in the JFK collection. I have no data to back this up but let's assume that one percent of the collection contains information that could be interpreted as pointing away from Oswald's guilt (I suspect it is more). That would mean that there are 50,000 records that could reasonably be interpreted as indicating Oswald's innocence. That can keep many people busy for a long time and indeed it has.

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