Mockingbird and MKULTRA

[Ron Bulman]

They are not mutually exclusive.  Both were developed and used during the 50's-60's-70s, then when discovered, "officially" discontinued.  

In fact they do have a common purpose, influencing others thoughts and actions.  Through the media or the use of drugs and even hypnosis.  Both have been researched and discussed in depth.  George White, Jollyon West.  Would one think Sidney Gottlieb did not participate with Cord Meyer in say at least budget meetings, policy, objective?  That they did interact as the heads of MKULTRA and Mockingbird.  Both of these guy's had to be tight with Dulles and Angleton.  Didn't Gottlieb go personally to the Congo in a failed attempt to poison Lumumba ?   Wasn't Meyer recruited by Dulles?  The boss of both, as well as Angleton?  

Do both forms continue today in terms of say big pharma and the m$m.  Maybe so, maybe likely.  Idk.  Read the lyrics.

Hayes Carll – KMAG YOYO Lyrics | Genius Lyrics

[Ron Bulman]

I started this thread because of California Governor Newsome's denial of Sirhan's parole.  That got me to thinking of Lisa Pease "A Lie Too Big To Fail".  An apt title for the last 14 months developments as well.  

I pulled the book off the shelf and began re reading the chapter on Mind Games.  In which she explains in detail the manipulation of Sirhan' mind.  Hypnosis is not a fantasy.  It too was a subset of MKULTRA designated Artichoke.  Worthy of 16 years research before RFK's death.  She also goes into media manipulation.

If the case was litigated today, he would walk imho, tough I'm certainly no attorney

Has anyone else out there ever seriously considered the use of deep hypnosis over time, scopolamine and alcohol?  What is the significance of Vacaville?

More recent work by modern day psychological experts in hypnotisim have revealed his trigger word, and rembered actions.  

Lisa also gets into how the M$M covered it up.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[W. Niederhut]

13 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I started this thread because of California Governor Newsome's denial of Sirhan's parole.  That got me to thinking of Lisa Pease "A Lie Too Big To Fail".  An apt title for the last 14 months developments as well.  

I pulled the book off the shelf and began re reading the chapter on Mind Games.  In which she explains in detail the manipulation of Sirhan' mind.  Hypnosis is not a fantasy.  It too was a subset of MKULTRA designated Artichoke.  Worthy of 16 years research before RFK's death.  She also goes into media manipulation.

If the case was litigated today, he would walk imho, tough I'm certainly no attorney

Has anyone else out there ever seriously considered the use of deep hypnosis over time, scopolamine and alcohol?  What is the significance of Vacaville?

More recent work by modern day psychological experts in hypnotisim have revealed his trigger word, and rembered actions.  

Lisa also gets into how the M$M covered it up.

Ron,

     I agree that hypnotic suggestibility can be an important component of mass propaganda and advertising.   There is so much more to the human mind than our mere rational, analytic consciousness.

      Some of the most effective propaganda is directed at the subconscious-- via appeals to primal libidinal and tribal instincts.   Our closest biological relatives, chimpanzees and pygmy chimps, are fiercely tribal and genocidal, and human history is written in blood.

      Authoritarian propaganda tends to appeal to subconscious tribalism-- e.g., the Cold War era Mockingbird propaganda about communism, the "Green Menace" propaganda in the U.S. media during our 21st century "War on Terror," and Trump's relentless fear-mongering about people with dark skin-- Mexicans, blacks, Muslims, etc.

     I conducted some sodium amytal interviews during my psychiatric career, and also used EMDR, (Eye Movement Desensitization and Re-Processing) but I was never a practitioner of hypnosis per se.  However, I have studied the classical literature on the subject, by Milton Erickson and others, and I believe it is a very powerful technique for influencing behavior in suggestible people like Sirhan.

    When I was a teenager, I spent a summer studying Spanish in the Mexican city of Saltillo, near Monterey, and I once attended a popular show by a traveling hypnotist named, "Tauro del Brazil."  It was quite an impressive demonstration of hypnotic suggestibility, featuring several local Mexican citizens.

    We are all capable of dissociation and trance states, going back to childhood years, but some people, like Sirhan, are far more suggestible than others.

 

   

   

Edited January 17, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Ron Bulman]

Regarding Mockingbird and the RFK assassination I had a couple of thoughts.  If the CIA was behind it they had Mockingbird assets ready and willing to push, immediately, the Sirhan lone nut story along with the ability to squash stories questioning this.  Second, they already had their audience conditioned.  They were practiced in convincing the public through the M$M from the JFK assassination, and that of MLK only a couple of months before RFK's that it was another lone nut.

Regarding Dr. Erickson, from page 410 of Lisa's fine book.

In a letter to Milton Erickson, (Dr.) Rowland asked:

When are you coming around to the notion that hypnotized persons can be made to harm themselves and others?  I think my experiment on this point is conclusive, and I wish you would duplicate it.

"It's worth noting that Erickson, who refused to accede to the notion that someone could be made to do something under hypnosis they would never otherwise do, had also don contract work for the CIA, according to author Hank Albarelli in his book A Terrible Mistake.  In other words, Erickson may well have had a career-serving reason to advocate this position."  

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I started this thread because of California Governor Newsome's denial of Sirhan's parole.  That got me to thinking of Lisa Pease "A Lie Too Big To Fail".  An apt title for the last 14 months developments as well.  

I pulled the book off the shelf and began re reading the chapter on Mind Games.  In which she explains in detail the manipulation of Sirhan' mind.  Hypnosis is not a fantasy.  It too was a subset of MKULTRA designated Artichoke.  Worthy of 16 years research before RFK's death.  She also goes into media manipulation.

If the case was litigated today, he would walk imho, tough I'm certainly no attorney

Has anyone else out there ever seriously considered the use of deep hypnosis over time, scopolamine and alcohol?  What is the significance of Vacaville?

More recent work by modern day psychological experts in hypnotisim have revealed his trigger word, and rembered actions.  

Lisa also gets into how the M$M covered it up.

I certainly would recommend Lisa's book "A lie too big to fail" to anyone. The things that can be done to the human mind are just staggering. Apparently up to 20% of the population are highly suggestible, and easy to hypnotise. Even your TV set causes alpha waves in the brain, which are also present when in a hypnotic state, you become more open to suggestion. If TV is propagandising you, most content is on some level, you're taking things in that you may not want to. Those citizens watching news for hours on end, are often having their thoughts shaped. You might think about a friend or relative staring at the TV with empty eyes, in a trance like state, as if they are in a daydream. They'll be taking in things to their subconscious without knowing it. I read a certain German leader did his speeches in the evening, when people were tired, which also makes the human mind more open to suggestion. Dutch psychologist, Joost Meerloo's book "The rape of the mind" is a great read on these dark arts. 

[W. Niederhut]

22 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Regarding Mockingbird and the RFK assassination I had a couple of thoughts.  If the CIA was behind it they had Mockingbird assets ready and willing to push, immediately, the Sirhan lone nut story along with the ability to squash stories questioning this.  Second, they already had their audience conditioned.  They were practiced in convincing the public through the M$M from the JFK assassination, and that of MLK only a couple of months before RFK's that it was another lone nut.

Regarding Dr. Erickson, from page 410 of Lisa's fine book.

In a letter to Milton Erickson, (Dr.) Rowland asked:

When are you coming around to the notion that hypnotized persons can be made to harm themselves and others?  I think my experiment on this point is conclusive, and I wish you would duplicate it.

"It's worth noting that Erickson, who refused to accede to the notion that someone could be made to do something under hypnosis they would never otherwise do, had also don contract work for the CIA, according to author Hank Albarelli in his book A Terrible Mistake.  In other words, Erickson may well have had a career-serving reason to advocate this position."  

Ron,

     I need to do some remedial reading on this one.  Milton Erickson's collected works on hypnosis are a fascinating read, but I wasn't aware of his possible association with the CIA.   It's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

     I should know better by now.  The Company has, obviously, had a long history of contracting with people in the academic community.

[Ron Bulman]

W., if you're looking for CIA connections you might check into these two.  Also from page 410 of Lisa's book.

"be hypnotized to do something against their will.  . . . one person who has long been exposed to having been associated with the CIA's mind control programs: Dr. Martin T. Orne (Harvard).  The other was Dr. William J. Bryan, who told prostitutes (at least two, who serviced him regularly) he worked for the CIA, and his friends and associates would seem to suggest this as well."

Bryan is of particular interest regarding the RFK assassination.   "Bryan, then the president of the American Institute of Hypnosis and living in Los Angeles was even more emphatic on this matter:  . . .  "I'm the best hypnotist in the world." he shouts."  "Just three months later Bryan was placed on probation by the California Board of Medical Examiners "after having been found guilty of having sexual relations" with four women he had hypnotized".   pg. 411.

To summarize further.  He also bragged to the two prostitutes about famous people he'd hypnotized and included Sirhan.  But, there is no record of such after Sirhan's arrest.  So, in theory it would have been before.

Interviewed in 1974 by Betsy Langman he claimed he was "probably the leading expert in the world on hypnosis".  He also told her "a certain amount of physical torture", "long term hypnosis", and "probably drugs" . . . "yes, you can brain wash a person to do just about anything".  She then asked him if he thought Sirhan might have been hypnotized.  He blew up.  "I never hypnotized him".  That's not what she asked, but he ranted on, she backed off.  She later asked the same question again.  He blew up again.  Jumped up and stormed out of His office shouting "This interview is over".

There is no known record of the LAPD or FBI contacting the local best hypnotist in the world/leading expert in the world.   The prosecution used a Dr. Seymour Pollack.  The defense brought in Dr. Bernard Diamond from San Francisco.  Who believed Sirhan guilty and led him in questioning while hypnotized.  Dr's. Kallas and Brown came to different conclusions than either of them.     

BTW, Bryan invented a machine using tape recordings whereby he claimed he could hypnotize up to seven people, in different locations, at once.

[W. Niederhut]

       Interesting stuff, Ron.  Your posts about Manson and Dr. Jolyon West finally prompted me to read Tom O'Neill's book, Chaos, a while back, and your post here about Orne and Bryan is prompting me to finally order Lisa Pease's opus on RFK.  (I read her Probe magazine essays on RFK in the DiEugenio Assassinations anthology, but never read A Lie Too Big to Fail.)

      Incidentally, I met Dr. Martin Orne in 1987 (or the spring of '88) when I was working as a ward chief at the Colorado State Hospital.  Orne came to Pueblo to consult on the grim case of a young man who had murdered his parents and was feigning a dissociative disorder.

[Ron Bulman]

I believe you'll find the whole book interesting, not just the Mind Games chapter.  The psychology involved in the assassination itself is, mind blowing, how Sirhan was developed and used.  I'll not go into Dr. Brown's work much until you've had time to read it.  I think there has been more since by another psychologist that supports and furthers it.

The part that really finished off the big picture for me is on page 493.  Quoting part of it won't totally give away it's import.  The context preceding it is needed.  Though "Bob" kind of gives it away somewhat if you know about him, his past and Cesar.

"Bob Maheu called to ask about the Don Nixon meeting and suggested 8:30 for breakfast at the Desert Inn Country Club.  I went to the club.  Maheu was all smiles, and Don Nixon walks in all smiles.  What followed next had to be seen to be believed.  They embraced each other and Don Nixon said "well that xxxxx is dead," and Maheu said "Well it looks like your brother is in now".  . . . Maheu joked that they should now be calling Don Nixon "Mr. Vice President"."

[Ron Bulman]

1 minute ago, Ron Bulman said:

I believe you'll find the whole book interesting, not just the Mind Games chapter.  The psychology involved in the assassination itself is, mind blowing, how Sirhan was developed and used.  I'll not go into Dr. Brown's work much until you've had time to read it.  I think there has been more since by another psychologist that supports and furthers it.

The part that really finished off the big picture for me is on page 493.  Quoting part of it won't totally give away it's import.  The context preceding it is needed.  Though "Bob" kind of gives it away somewhat if you know about him, his past and Cesar.

"Bob Maheu called to ask about the Don Nixon meeting and suggested 8:30 for breakfast at the Desert Inn Country Club.  I went to the club.  Maheu was all smiles, and Don Nixon walks in all smiles.  What followed next had to be seen to be believed.  They embraced each other and Don Nixon said "well that xxxxx is dead," and Maheu said "Well it looks like your brother is in now".  . . . Maheu joked that they should now be calling Don Nixon "Mr. Vice President"."

I didn't know p r i c k was a dirty word.  I pricked my finger with the pin.

[Ron Bulman]

Maybe Vegas or more specifically Maheu deserve a thread of their own.  Maybe both.  A crossroads point in both the assassinations of JFK and RFK?  Ceasar an employee of Maheu/Hughes seen in Vegas.  Harvey contacting Maheu about the CIA putting a mafia contract on Castro, referred to Roselli.  Ruby in Vegas on 11/17-18/63.  At the Tropicana.   Which Roselli arranged the financing to build, lived in when in town, and owned the parking, concessions and got 10% of all entertainment bookings.  A million a year in 1963 dollars.  He might have known enough to get cut up and stuffed in an oil drum then put out to sea outside Miami.

Clapton before he was accused of being racist and became an anti vaxer.

 

[Ron Bulman]

I always thought the Office of Strategic Services, formed in WWII, was created to spy on the enemy.  Troop strength, movement, plans, communication etcetera.   I've read Mac Arthur in the Pacific wanted nothing to do with them, that he had his own spy network he trusted more.  Dulles based out of Switzerland used his position for his own benefit, or that of those he privately represented at the time on Wall Street.

I never really thought about it in this context.  From page 450 of Lie Too Big To Fail.  I guess this went right over my head or failed to sink in the first time I read the book.  A lot of info in it to absorb.

"The CIA was formed from the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was itself formed in response to the rise in Nassi Propaganda.  The OSS initial goal was to counter such propaganda.  So from birth, the CIA was, at the very least, a propaganda operation."

So it started as defense against hitler's fascism.  Then with Mockingbird in the 50's it went on the offense, against the perceived and/or created danger of communist aggression? 

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

I always thought the Office of Strategic Services, formed in WWII, was created to spy on the enemy.  Troop strength, movement, plans, communication etcetera.   I've read Mac Arthur in the Pacific wanted nothing to do with them, that he had his own spy network he trusted more.  Dulles based out of Switzerland used his position for his own benefit, or that of those he privately represented at the time on Wall Street.

I never really thought about it in this context.  From page 450 of Lie Too Big To Fail.  I guess this went right over my head or failed to sink in the first time I read the book.  A lot of info in it to absorb.

"The CIA was formed from the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was itself formed in response to the rise in Nassi Propaganda.  The OSS initial goal was to counter such propaganda.  So from birth, the CIA was, at the very least, a propaganda operation."

So it started as defense against hitler's fascism.  Then with Mockingbird in the 50's it went on the offense, against the perceived and/or created danger of communist aggression? 

Ron,

    Those CIA/OSS guys were experts in psychological ops from the Company's beginning.  And they were very good at it-- brilliant.

    They played the American public like a Wurlitzer, and not only in the cover up of JFK's assassination, obviously.

    It's interesting that Edward Bernays, the Godfather of Modern Propaganda, advised American capitalists long before WWII that they needed to use his propaganda techniques to systematically disparage socialism.   That's one reason that the U.S. shifted so radically from an appreciation of FDR, labor unions, and the "socialist" New Deal of the 1930s to a society where "socialism" and the labor movement became anathematized in the U.S., especially after 1980.

The Mighty Wurlitzer: How the CIA Played America

https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Wurlitzer-How-Played-America/dp/067403256X

 

[Ron Bulman]

On 1/25/2022 at 9:50 PM, W. Niederhut said:

Ron,

    Those CIA/OSS guys were experts in psychological ops from the Company's beginning.  And they were very good at it-- brilliant.

    They played the American public like a Wurlitzer, and not only in the cover up of JFK's assassination, obviously.

    It's interesting that Edward Bernays, the Godfather of Modern Propaganda, advised American capitalists long before WWII that they needed to use his propaganda techniques to systematically disparage socialism.   That's one reason that the U.S. shifted so radically from an appreciation of FDR, labor unions, and the "socialist" New Deal of the 1930s to a society where "socialism" and the labor movement became anathematized in the U.S., especially after 1980.

The Mighty Wurlitzer: How the CIA Played America

https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Wurlitzer-How-Played-America/dp/067403256X

 

An interesting looking Book.  Maybe a good primer for Joseph McBride's new one?  Interesting that both Frank Wisner and Frank Olsen reportedly committed suicide.  Cord Meyer, what ever happened to him?

"Especially after 1980".  That part escalated starting in the late 1960's between James Buchanan, the koch brothers and others.  It also resulted in the current supreme court predicament.  A reaction to the threat of JFK, then RFK?

[W. Niederhut]

10 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

An interesting looking Book.  Maybe a good primer for Joseph McBride's new one?  Interesting that both Frank Wisner and Frank Olsen reportedly committed suicide.  Cord Meyer, what ever happened to him?

"Especially after 1980".  That part escalated starting in the late 1960's between James Buchanan, the koch brothers and others.  It also resulted in the current supreme court predicament.  A reaction to the threat of JFK, then RFK?

Cord Meyer, apparently, retired from the CIA in 1977, around the time of the Church Committee investigations.

According to Wikipedia, he became a syndicated columnist, and died of lymphoma in 2001.

I notice that the Wiki chapter on Meyer mentions the E. Howard Hunt death bed "confession" fingering LBJ, Cord Meyer, William Harvey, and David Morales in the JFK assassination plot, FWIW.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cord_Meyer