Sgt. Kenneth Hudson Croy. A Mason

[Ken Martinson]

Croy became a volunteer Police Officer at age 23. (what kind of young man volunteers for such work? Most people want to be paid for work)

He was age 26 when he was "first on the scene" of the Tippit murder. He was also a Mason at the "Oak Cliff" branch.

Do we know who else was a member of the Oak Cliff branch of the Masons in 1963 ?

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/99498100/kenneth-hudson-croy

http://harveyandlee.net/Tippit/Tippit.html

[Jim Hargrove]

Thank you for starting this thread, Ken.  For just a brief summary....

As you indicated, Croy himself said he was the first officer at the Tippit murder scene.

Croy also claimed that he found the other “Oswald” wallet at 10th and Patton and gave it to Westbrook.  (Although he may have been lying to protect Westbrook.)

We also think Croy was the unidentified reserve officer who replaced Officer Brock at 10:45 am on the day Ruby killed Oswald.  We think Croy led Ruby directly to Oswald at precisely the time he was brought out of the jail.

We speculate that Croy was in car #207 with Westbrook when it honked in front of Oswald’s boarding house.

We speculate that Croy was in the car with Westbrook that was seen by Mrs. Holan in the narrow driveway blocked by Tippit’s car near 10th and Patton at the time Tippit was killed.

Like Westbrook, Croy was unable to give the WC a convincing explanation of how his time was spent during crucial hours on the afternoon of 11/22/63.

[Ken Martinson]

From what I've heard, the Freemasons is a highly secretive organization, and often has influential people as members. The Rotary Club is an offshoot of the Freemasons, and does not have the secrecy. I was invited to a Rotary Luncheon one time and sat at a table with a Supreme Court judge who was on his lunch break.

What more can we dig up about Sgt. Croy? It looks like he died in 2012, and had a long career in the police service. And was a member of two Freemason lodges. From what I know, to be a member in good standing, you need to attend a (secret) meeting once a week.

I suspect membership lists are hard to come by. My uncle was a member, and he had a membership list in his house, so they are not that secret.

Has anyone investigated the whole Dallas Police Force during 1963?

 

 

[Ken Martinson]

That's a good diagram of the Dallas PD.

How much organization would it have taken to get Ruby to the right place at the right time?

How could messages be sent? By hand signals? When Ruby was in place, only one hand signal to release Oswald would be enough.

[Ken Martinson]

The Mason Temple is here: 115 S Beckley Ave, Dallas, TX 75203, USA  

1000 ft from Texas theatre, and 1700 ft from Tippet murder. So, located almost halfway inbetween these two locations.

Established in 1920. Is located on a 3 acre city block, with the rest of the block being "Cliff Temple Baptist Church". He move to Ft. Stockton about 6 hrs West of Dallas to work for  Texas Dept. of Criminal Justice – Lynbaugh unit.  His funeral was in this town.  

However, his memorial service was in Hamilton, Tx, 2 hr drive south of Dallas. Some of his family were likely living in the area. And it was at a Baptist church, so he was likely associated with the Baptist church. And the "Cliff Temple Baptist church" is likely associated with the Masonic Temple, as they are on the same piece of land, and have similar names.

Did Croy live in Oak Cliff?  It is likely.

On Nov. 22, 1963 he said that he had lunch with his wife, and they were separated. Any other details on his life?

[Steve Thomas]

7 minutes ago, Ken Martinson said:

The Mason Temple is here: 115 S Beckley Ave, Dallas, TX 75203, USA  

1000 ft from Texas theatre, and 1700 ft from Tippet murder. So, located almost halfway inbetween these two locations.

Established in 1920. Is located on a 3 acre city block, with the rest of the block being "Cliff Temple Baptist Church". He move to Ft. Stockton about 6 hrs West of Dallas to work for  Texas Dept. of Criminal Justice – Lynbaugh unit.  His funeral was in this town.  

However, his memorial service was in Hamilton, Tx, 2 hr drive south of Dallas. Some of his family were likely living in the area. And it was at a Baptist church, so he was likely associated with the Baptist church. And the "Cliff Temple Baptist church" is likely associated with the Masonic Temple, as they are on the same piece of land, and have similar names.

Did Croy live in Oak Cliff?  It is likely.

On Nov. 22, 1963 he said that he had lunch with his wife, and they were separated. Any other details on his life?

Ken,

Ray Hawkins and T.A. Hutson both participated in the apprehension of Lee Oswald.

Ray Hawkins call sign was 211

T.A. Hutson call sign was 284

J.D. Tippit is shot.

Multiple units respond.

A search of the houses in the vicinity is undertaken.

The search of the houses proves fruitless.

A suspect is spotted at the Library.

Multiple units respond.

Sometime between the search of the houses and the sighting of a suspect at the Library, Hawkins and Hutson make a stop at a Mobile Gas Station at 10th and Beckley to make a phone call, supposedly in response from a request from Dispatch to call in.

I do not find any reference to this phone call in the Dispatch tapes.

Is it odd that Tippit and Hawkins are making phone calls on a landline telephone right around this same time period?

(Hawkins) “We had just finished the accident at this time and I was driving an officer, Baggett, and I proceeded to Oak Cliff to the general vicinity of the call after checking out with the dispatcher, stating that we were proceeding in that direction.”

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/wit.htm#e

 

We arrived in Oak Cliff and there were several squads in the general vicinity of where the shooting had occurred---different stories had come out that the person was--the suspect had been seen in the immediate vicinity.
Mr. BALL. Did you go to 10th and Patton?
Mr. HAWKINS. We drove by 10th and Patton--we didn't stop at the location.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go then?
Mr. HAWKINS. We circled the vicinity around Jefferson and Marsalis and in that area, talking to several people on the street, asking if they had seen anyone running up the alley or running down the street, and then they received a call, or I believe Officer Walker put out a call that he had just seen a white man running to the Oak Cliff Library, at which time we proceeded to this location. Officer Hutson had gotten into the car with us when we arrived in Oak Cliff, and there were three of us in the squad car--Officer Baggett, Officer Hutson, and myself.

 

Officer Thomas Hutson:

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/wit.htm#e

Mr. HUTSON. We proceeded west on 10th Street to Beckley, and we pulled into the Mobil gas station at Beckley and 10th Street.
Mr. BELIN. That is a Mobil gas station?
Mr. HUTSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. HUTSON. And Officer Ray Hawkins and Officer Baggett went inside of the Mobil gas station. And I am not positive, but I think they used the telephone to call in.
I am not positive, but I believe they gave us a call for us to call. I mean their number to call in.
At the time they were in the service station, I heard the dispatcher give a call that the suspect was just seen running across the lawn at the Oak Cliff Branch Library at Marsalis and Jefferson.

 

Kenneth Croy”

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/wit.htm#e

Mr. GRIFFIN. Where do you live?
Mr. CROY. 1658 Glenfield Dallas, Tex.

“Mr. GRIFFIN. What is your occupation?
Mr. CROY. I have several.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let's have them in order.
Mr. CROY. I am in the real estate business. I have a Mobil service station...”

 

1658 Glenfield is roughly a mile southwest of the Texas Theater

 

posting by an unknown author in the ReopenKennedyCase Forum 1/29/2014

“Croy’s home by the way was 1658 Glenfield. This was the same street that J. D. Tippit lived on until 1961. Glenfield was also the same street that Carl Amos Mather used to live on a few blocks from Tippit’s house when they first became friends. For those unfamiliar with Mather he is connected to proceedings because a license plate number was taken down by garage mechanic T. F. White close to the Texas Theater immediately after Oswald’s arrest that was traced back to Carl Amos Mather’s car. The occupant of the car seen by White bore an uncanny resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald and Carl Mather, when interviewed, told of his friendship with J. D. Tippit. Tippit's old house of 1919 Glenfield, even though he and his family no longer lived there in 1963, was still in his possession and the property was rented out As far as I'm aware it was never investigated who it was rented out to. Croy’s house was three blocks from the house Tippit owned. During his Warren Commission testimony it is interesting to note that Croy was not asked if he knew Officer Tippit”.

Steve Thomas

[Pete Mellor]

2 hours ago, Ken Martinson said:

Has anyone investigated the whole Dallas Police Force during 1963?

Ken, The late Ian Griggs of Dealey Plaza U.K. was the specialist on the DPD & in his latter years was working on a comprehensive manuscript covering DPD personnel that sadly was unfinished at the time of Ian's passing in 2019.   Ian Griggs (spartacus-educational.com)

I did connect Ian's son Steve who had this manuscript with Larry Hancock of JFK Lancer back in 2020 with a view of getting Ian's incomplete work published, but at present have heard nothing of any developments.

My profile photo was taken in Dallas in 2003 walking beside Ian, a picture taken by fellow D.P.U.K. member Barry Keane.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Pete Mellor
Add info

[Ken Martinson]

3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/wit.htm#e

Mr. GRIFFIN. Where do you live?
Mr. CROY. 1658 Glenfield Dallas, Tex.

“Mr. GRIFFIN. What is your occupation?
Mr. CROY. I have several.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let's have them in order.
Mr. CROY. I am in the real estate business. I have a Mobil service station...”

 

 

The growth in Dallas / Fort Worth from 1963 to 2021 is almost exactly 4X.

https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/22966/dallas-fort-worth/population

There are currently 78 Mobil service stations in Dallas.  https://www.hoursmap.com/c/dallas-tx/exxon+mobil-hours-locations-s1435817

So, one can assume about 20 Mobil service stations in Dallas in 1963.

Which one did Croy own?  Owning a Service Station at age 26? Did he ever work at one? It is most likely that Croy would own a company near where he lived, ie. Nor in North Dallas.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Ken Martinson

[Ken Martinson]

1 hour ago, Ken Martinson said:

The growth in Dallas / Fort Worth from 1963 to 2021 is almost exactly 4X.

https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/22966/dallas-fort-worth/population

There are currently 78 Mobil service stations in Dallas.  https://www.hoursmap.com/c/dallas-tx/exxon+mobil-hours-locations-s1435817

So, one can assume about 20 Mobil service stations in Dallas in 1963.

Which one did Croy own?  Owning a Service Station at age 26? Did he ever work at one? It is most likely that Croy would own a company near where he lived, ie. Nor in North Dallas.

Exxon and Mobile merged in 1999. So, cut the estimate of 20 service stations to 10.

[Jim Hargrove]

5 hours ago, Ken Martinson said:

That's a good diagram of the Dallas PD.

How much organization would it have taken to get Ruby to the right place at the right time?

How could messages be sent? By hand signals? When Ruby was in place, only one hand signal to release Oswald would be enough.

Ken,

The base diagram is a Warren Commission document, but John has explained to me that it is quite misleading for reasons I can describe later if you wish.  But first….

It was no more than 10 minutes or so from the time Ruby was wiring money in the Western Union office until he shot Oswald.  The timing is just stunning!  What kind of communications must have gone on between the DPD (Westbrook and/or Croy?) and Ruby.  That would be nice to know!

When Oswald was brought out of the jail office, all eyes were on him.  Few would have noticed Croy leading Ruby to Oswald from the parking garage.

Also, just in case some people didn’t read or read to the end John’s article you linked in the OP, notice how quickly Croy and then Ruby show up at Oswald’s side.

[Ken Martinson]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Ken,

The base diagram is a Warren Commission document, but John has explained to me that it is quite misleading for reasons I can describe later if you wish.  But first….

It was no more than 10 minutes or so from the time Ruby was wiring money in the Western Union office until he shot Oswald.  The timing is just stunning!  What kind of communications must have gone on between the DPD (Westbrook and/or Croy?) and Ruby.  That would be nice to know!

When Oswald was brought out of the jail office, all eyes were on him.  Few would have noticed Croy leading Ruby to Oswald from the parking garage.

Also, just in case some people didn’t read or read to the end John’s article you linked in the OP, notice how quickly Croy and then Ruby show up at Oswald’s side.

I see that Croy had on an official Police Hat, and that many other DPD had on cowboy hats. Looking out the doors of the PD, it may have been fairly easy to see Sgt. Croy with his PD hat on.

I've heard that Ruby was well known at the DPD and seemed to wander around with no problems. If Ruby had been pushed to do the shooting on Saturday, then there was limited opportunity for him. It seems he was in the DPD on Saturday maybe looking for an opportunity to shoot Oswald (There is a picture of him at the back of one of Oswald's impromptu news interviews).

[Ken Martinson]

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Ken,

Also, just in case some people didn’t read or read to the end John’s article you linked in the OP, notice how quickly Croy and then Ruby show up at Oswald’s side.

 

That's a 121 page article. It takes a long time to read and understand.

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Ken,

The base diagram is a Warren Commission document, but John has explained to me that it is quite misleading for reasons I can describe later if you wish.  But first….

It was no more than 10 minutes or so from the time Ruby was wiring money in the Western Union office until he shot Oswald.  The timing is just stunning!  What kind of communications must have gone on between the DPD (Westbrook and/or Croy?) and Ruby.  That would be nice to know!

When Oswald was brought out of the jail office, all eyes were on him.  Few would have noticed Croy leading Ruby to Oswald from the parking garage.

Also, just in case some people didn’t read or read to the end John’s article you linked in the OP, notice how quickly Croy and then Ruby show up at Oswald’s side.

Jim, where is Croy's hat in that last picture?  Did he back up just before Ruby shot Oswald, knowing what was coming?

[Steve Thomas]

8 hours ago, Ken Martinson said:

I see that Croy had on an official Police Hat, and that many other DPD had on cowboy hats. Looking out the doors of the PD, it may have been fairly easy to see Sgt. Croy with his PD hat on.

Ken,

The white cowboy hats were a feature of Will Fritz's Detectives in the Homicide and Robbery Bureau.

Steve Thomas

[Roy Wieselquist]

23 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Thank you for starting this thread, Ken.  For just a brief summary....

As you indicated, Croy himself said he was the first officer at the Tippit murder scene.

Croy also claimed that he found the other “Oswald” wallet at 10th and Patton and gave it to Westbrook.  (Although he may have been lying to protect Westbrook.)

We also think Croy was the unidentified reserve officer who replaced Officer Brock at 10:45 am on the day Ruby killed Oswald.  We think Croy led Ruby directly to Oswald at precisely the time he was brought out of the jail.

We speculate that Croy was in car #207 with Westbrook when it honked in front of Oswald’s boarding house.

We speculate that Croy was in the car with Westbrook that was seen by Mrs. Holan in the narrow driveway blocked by Tippit’s car near 10th and Patton at the time Tippit was killed.

Like Westbrook, Croy was unable to give the WC a convincing explanation of how his time was spent during crucial hours on the afternoon of 11/22/63.

Jim H.,

That diagram of Jack Ruby's probable path into the DPD 11.24 is pure gold. It HAD to happen like that. I've been looking for this for many years.

That wiring of the measly funds from Western Union was time-stamped 11:16, and JR shot Oswald at 11:21. Allowing a minute, two at most, for the two clocks being off a little, JR got into position in about five minutes from the time he left WU. He had to have help getting in through a door locked from the inside. The Western Union is just on the other side of the DPD parking lot. There is no way Ruby had time to walk down any heavily-watched ramp, as the War Con speculated.

IMHO, "Blackie" Harrison also assisted Ruby's getting into position. Wasn't the cigarette/cigar machine that had Blackie's brand at one of the exit doors? This action required at least two DPD to pull it off, at least one lookout and one escort. Probably since Harrison had a likely excuse to be at that door, it was he who was looking out for JR with the door just cracked open. And ol' Blackie was also around Jack Ruby, like Croy, when the old gangster jumped out and stuck his gat in Ozzie's gut. This diagram is priceless.

 

Also, the work of the John Armstrong branch of the research community on Westbrook and Croy 11.22 is pure gold, especially at the Tippit murder scene. This is nailing down a big part of how the coup of 1963 was carried out

Edited January 18, 2022 by Roy Wieselquist
clarity attempt