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Film of a second rifle--2 rifles total--on the sixth floor 11/22/63


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Hello all:

 

I deleted the video. It has been called out to my satisfaction that the second rifle is a policeman's Browning shotgun. I saw Lisa Pease talking about it on Twitter and just ran with it. Sorry about that.

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7 hours ago, Ian Lloyd said:

Notwithstanding the YouTube comment, I thought this had been previously addressed and explained as being a cop's shotgun? Maybe a clearer image will help...

Hello all:

 

I deleted the video. It has been called out to my satisfaction that the second rifle is a policeman's Browning shotgun. I saw Lisa Pease talking about it on Twitter and just ran with it. Sorry about that.

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Vince's immediate and humble willingness to stand corrected as soon as more solid evidence is presented that disproves his initial speculation in this matter is an appreciated sign of integrity imo.

Still, "gun shop owner/gun buff" Constable Seymore Weisman's firm IDing of the rifle as a "Mauser" just minutes after it's discovery will always be a strongly suspicious alternate truth thorn in the side of the official rifle discovery story.

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Seems there were a lot of shotguns at the depository that day, these images are culled from a YouTube vid simply entitled ‘Texas School Book Depository.’  It’s 9 minutes long and I got bored counting them after 1 minute 40!E9BB1DB5-674D-45D6-B3CD-3D619C4B8D9A.jpeg.c8fa4fe241b80ada31fdf742e2201c54.jpegF04B114F-DA68-4B1B-8599-3D2586CEEF98.jpeg.4e8273cf1bd860cce5b141d8853bac65.jpeg952273CF-4738-466F-A170-68557C00660E.jpeg.3083bffdf48803b5aaf5b3b0c7c01c88.jpeg

 

But if there was an extra weapon to be smuggled out in plain sight…this cop did it!

73A70D97-FF9D-4CDC-9EA5-1DADB2031A97.thumb.jpeg.297b23ceb0b03f216334a51a84aad31e.jpeg

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11 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

It appears to match a 1960ish Browning shotgun:

Shotgun.gif

Chris,

I'm not sure I agree with this.  First off this seems to be some kind of composite photo showing 3 rifles (or as you say a shotgun).  I believe it is a rifle.  

chris-d-1-shotgun-image-a.jpg

Notice the very slender grip on this weapon.  This is typical of a Remington Model 8 semi-automatic rifle.  That doesn't make this a composite photo.  What does is the portrayal of 3 rifles in one photo.  The bottom rifle appears to have a sling under the rifle rather than to the side as in the case of the Carcano.  I might just be seeing things here, but the portrayal of 3 weapons in one photo has not been shown in any other photo or film.  (I have to put an exception here for photos of multiple DPD Officers carrying pump shotguns)

Here is a good example of the Remington Model 8.  This was the first semiautomatic weapon of about 1908.  It was a weapon used to kill Bonnie and Clyde.  

allen-model-8-rifle-a.jpg

Notice the slender stock grip near the metal.  And, the features of the back part of the weapon looks like an automatic shotgun would look.  However, in the photo used by Chris the true appearance can't be seen due to blurry, vague imagery.  What's seen appears to me to be the Model 8.  I'm not sure of the name of the detective.  I have this marked as Allen Model 8 rifle.

 

Edited by John Butler
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2 hours ago, Sean Coleman said:

Seems there were a lot of shotguns at the depository that day, these images are culled from a YouTube vid simply entitled ‘Texas School Book Depository.’  It’s 9 minutes long and I got bored counting them after 1 minute 40!E9BB1DB5-674D-45D6-B3CD-3D619C4B8D9A.jpeg.c8fa4fe241b80ada31fdf742e2201c54.jpegF04B114F-DA68-4B1B-8599-3D2586CEEF98.jpeg.4e8273cf1bd860cce5b141d8853bac65.jpeg952273CF-4738-466F-A170-68557C00660E.jpeg.3083bffdf48803b5aaf5b3b0c7c01c88.jpeg

 

But if there was an extra weapon to be smuggled out in plain sight…this cop did it!

73A70D97-FF9D-4CDC-9EA5-1DADB2031A97.thumb.jpeg.297b23ceb0b03f216334a51a84aad31e.jpeg

Sean,

True.  But, the Dallas PD used pump shotguns rather than automatic.  I suspect pump shotguns were the standard for police departments due to their not being as prone to jam as say, an automatic shotgun.  I have used and earlier family members have used automatics (really semi-automatics) since the 50s with no jamming.  But, I guess it is a matter of preference.  

I might be wrong on the DPS preference for pumps, but every photo of a DPD officer I have seen were carrying pump shotguns.

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5 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Vince's immediate and humble willingness to stand corrected as soon as more solid evidence is presented that disproves his initial speculation in this matter is an appreciated sign of integrity imo.

Still, "gun shop owner/gun buff" Constable Seymore Weisman's firm IDing of the rifle as a "Mauser" just minutes after it's discovery will always be a strongly suspicious alternate truth thorn in the side of the official rifle discovery story.

Thanks! Much appreciated.

I agree- apart from the mistake about the film, the Mauser issue is still alive.

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21 hours ago, Vince Palamara said:

OUTSTANDING comment left on the You Tube comment section of the video:

 

I just asked a police officer friend of mine (in an attempt to think of a lone-nutter's possible retort) if it is possible that the other rifle was a police officer's rifle. He laughed and said, quote, "for one thing, the detectives didn't carry rifles and, two, they wouldn't contaminate the crime scene by having a rifle, police issued or otherwise, within spitting distance of a filmed and dissected area like that."

Please don’t name your friend’s name. I don’t want to be humiliated by the photos showing Fritz and Det Boyd entering the TSBD with shotguns. 🤣

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No Mauser was found on the 6th floor. Nobody remembers seeing two. Roger Craig said the rifle was photographed by the police. We do have police photos of the Carcano. So where are those of the Mauser? If Boone and Weitzman found the Mauser, then who found the Carcano? Anyone knows? Anyone??? I didn’t think so…

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2 hours ago, Denis Morissette said:

I think you’re thinking of Frazier’s rifle.

I'm aware of Frazier's Enfield.  Use "Enfield" as a search term to see posts on early news reports of a Lee Enfield found in the TSBD.  I make no endorsement of the accuracy of the reports.

Edited by David Andrews
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  • 1 month later...

@David Andrews is correct! Although BWF did own an Enfield that was confiscated, there were also reports previous to this of an Enfield being the murder weapon that was found. Possibly why, according to BWF in his account in The Lonestar Speaks of being interrogated and presented with an affidavit to sign saying he was a conspirator with Oswald. And if he hadn't read it first and just signed it then history may have told a different story! That's how these cops operated back then. No telling how many false confessions people signed because they were told they could sign that paper and go home and they didn't read it. They were also known to beat confessions out of people. That's probably a big reason they allowed the media such access to Oswald so they could see he didn't have any fresh bruises on him aside from those he got in the theater scuffle. There were also reports of a thirty aught six as being the murder weapon I believe.

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