The Curious Case of George Estabrooks

[W. Niederhut]

Ben,

    I'm responding to your comments in red here.

Can you send the above PDF to me?

 I read it on SCRIBD.  Here's the link. (Most of this was well summarized by Brown in the Shane O'Sullivan documentary.)

https://www.scribd.com/document/490164852/Dr-Daniel-Brown-2016-Declaration

I am sure you would agree that no matter how great Dr. Brown's intellect and stature, we have not really seen verifiable, replicable experiments in this field. 

There is a  case described by Estabrook in which a hypnotized woman fired a gun (loaded with blanks) at another woman in response to a hypnotic suggestion, and the Bjorn Nielsen case from Denmark, but how would a Manchurian experiment be conducted under less than classified military conditions?

That does not rule out that Sirhan was perhaps even uniquely suited to be a Manchurian candidate, as suggested by Dr. Brown.  

Not uniquely, but ideally.  He was highly dissociative-- probably as a result of horrific childhood trauma.

It also well-known that convicts in prison are able to con outsiders.  For all we know, Sirhan (described as intelligent) read up on hypnosis literature, and "fed" Dr. Brown the cues and clues Dr. Brown was looking for.  

There was no evidence of sociopathy or malingering, and Sirhan had been frequently hypnotized prior to June 5, 1968.  In fact, he and some friends at Santa Anita who described his interest in self-hypnosis.

And there may be other individuals, equal to Dr Brown in his fields, who would draw different conclusions if they examined Sirhan. 

Some paid forensic psychologists and psychiatrists will say almost anything, as I know from direct observation, but  Brown used validated psychometric tests, and even obtained blinded second opinions.  Also, the transcripts of his witnessed Sirhan interviews speak for themselves, IMO.

All that said, I find it curious that Sirhan would drink alcohol heavily on the night of the assassination, which was something he did rarely at all. Without any evidence, this makes me think Sirhan was already a bit doped up when he got to the Ambassador. 

My own belief is that Sirhan was probably acting on a post-hypnotic compulsion to go the bar at the Ambassador Hotel-- similar to the witnessed incident in which Bernard Diamond had him climbing on the bars of his cell in 1968.

To better understand post-hypnotic compulsions, read some case studies.  People will do odd things on cue, with amnesia for the hypnotic suggestion, then make up explanations for the odd compulsive action.

Edited February 18, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Guest]

I find the end of this recorded parole hearing just appalling. Dr Brown does get mentioned and cited as an expert. 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ben,

    I'm responding to your comments in red here.

Can you send the above PDF to me?

 I read it on SCRIBD.  Here's the link. (Most of this was well summarized by Brown in the Shane O'Sullivan documentary.)

https://www.scribd.com/document/490164852/Dr-Daniel-Brown-2016-Declaration

I am sure you would agree that no matter how great Dr. Brown's intellect and stature, we have not really seen verifiable, replicable experiments in this field. 

There is a  case described by Estabrook in which a hypnotized woman fired a gun (loaded with blanks) at another woman in response to a hypnotic suggestion, and the Bjorn Nielsen case from Denmark, but how would a Manchurian experiment be conducted under less than classified military conditions?

That does not rule out that Sirhan was perhaps even uniquely suited to be a Manchurian candidate, as suggested by Dr. Brown.  

Not uniquely, but ideally.  He was highly dissociative-- probably as a result of horrific childhood trauma.

It also well-known that convicts in prison are able to con outsiders.  For all we know, Sirhan (described as intelligent) read up on hypnosis literature, and "fed" Dr. Brown the cues and clues Dr. Brown was looking for.  

There was no evidence of sociopathy or malingering, and Sirhan had been frequently hypnotized prior to June 5, 1968.  In fact, he and some friends at Santa Anita who described his interest in self-hypnosis.

And there may be other individuals, equal to Dr Brown in his fields, who would draw different conclusions if they examined Sirhan. 

Some paid forensic psychologists and psychiatrists will say almost anything, as I know from direct observation, but  Brown used validated psychometric tests, and even obtained blinded second opinions.  Also, the transcripts of his witnessed Sirhan interviews speak for themselves, IMO.

All that said, I find it curious that Sirhan would drink alcohol heavily on the night of the assassination, which was something he did rarely at all. Without any evidence, this makes me think Sirhan was already a bit doped up when he got to the Ambassador. 

My own belief is that Sirhan was probably acting on a post-hypnotic compulsion to go the bar at the Ambassador Hotel-- similar to the witnessed incident in which Bernard Diamond had him climbing on the bars of his cell in 1968.

To better understand post-hypnotic compulsions, read some case studies.  People will do odd things on cue, with amnesia for the hypnotic suggestion, then make up explanations for the odd compulsive action.

Easy--as you have indicated, give people a gun with blanks. 

See if you can hypnotize 10 people (successively) and send them across town with a blank-gun to shoot at people (who are forewarned, of course). 

Of the 10 patients, in how many cases was there success?

Of course, is this is too dangerous a plan, try to hypnotize 10 people, and have them travel across town and then offer someone a pipe to smoke. 

Have independent outsiders observe and record details. 

Why would be so hard to devise such a simple test? 

[Ron Bulman]

51 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Easy--as you have indicated, give people a gun with blanks. 

See if you can hypnotize 10 people (successively) and send them across town with a blank-gun to shoot at people (who are forewarned, of course). 

Of the 10 patients, in how many cases was there success?

Of course, is this is too dangerous a plan, try to hypnotize 10 people, and have them travel across town and then offer someone a pipe to smoke. 

Have independent outsiders observe and record details. 

Why would be so hard to devise such a simple test? 

If you can get past the flag in the background, are all the almost Frisco fans hypnotized or just into one of the best jams ever?

 

[Benjamin Cole]

https://www.cia.gov/library/abbottabad-compound/12/129E144131F2E093FB1E441C737ACF92_SearchForTheManchurianCandidate.rtf.pdf

 

[Benjamin Cole]

https://info.publicintelligence.net/SirhanSirhanPlea.pdf

the legal case, mentions Dr. Brown 

[Benjamin Cole]

Egads.

 

In 1975, a Los Angeles judge convened a panel of seven experts in forensics to examine ballistic evidence. They found that the three bullets that hit (RFK) Kennedy were all fired from the same gun, but could not find a match between these bullets and Sirhan's revolver. They accused (LAPD) DeWayne Wolfer, the lead crime scene investigator who had testified at trial that a bullet taken from Kennedy's body was from Sirhan's revolver, of running a careless investigation. The forensic experts urged further investigation. An internal police document, which was later released, concluded that "Kennedy and Weisel (another victim) bullets not fired from same gun" and "Kennedy bullet (recovered from his body) not fired from Sirhan's revolver."^[10]

^---30---

[W. Niederhut]

10 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Easy--as you have indicated, give people a gun with blanks. 

See if you can hypnotize 10 people (successively) and send them across town with a blank-gun to shoot at people (who are forewarned, of course). 

Of the 10 patients, in how many cases was there success?

Of course, is this is too dangerous a plan, try to hypnotize 10 people, and have them travel across town and then offer someone a pipe to smoke. 

Have independent outsiders observe and record details. 

Why would be so hard to devise such a simple test? 

Ben,

    You should read Estabrooks' 1943 Hypnosis textbook.  It is an excellent review of the clinical literature, and also presents case examples of post-hypnotic compulsions.  Quite interesting stuff.

    One good example, in Sirhan's case, was Dr. Bernard Diamond suggesting to Sirhan (while hypnotized) that, when Diamond took out his handkerchief to blow his nose, Sirhan would climb on the bars of his jail cell like a monkey, but would have no memory of the suggestion.

    After coming out of hypnosis, Diamond later took out his handkerchief to blow his nose, and Sirhan began climbing on the bars of his cell.  Then he confabulated in typical fashion.  When asked why he was climbing on the bars, Sirhan said that he was "exercising."

    My own belief is that Sirhan was acting compulsively on subconscious post-hypnotic suggestions when he went to the Ambassador Hotel and encountered the girl in the polka dress-- who became his guide to the pantry before cuing his "range mode" response.

    The girl in the polka dress was, evidently, working for William Bryan, Jolyon West, or whoever programmed Sirhan to act as a patsy/decoy.

    Incidentally, have you ever witnessed any cases of hypnosis and the the behavioral effects of hypnotic suggestions?

   

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ben,

    You should read Estabrooks' 1943 Hypnosis textbook.  It is an excellent review of the clinical literature, and also presents case examples of post-hypnotic compulsions.  Quite interesting stuff.

    One good example, in Sirhan's case, was Dr. Bernard Diamond suggesting to Sirhan (while hypnotized) that, when Diamond took out his handkerchief to blow his nose, Sirhan would climb on the bars of his jail cell like a monkey, but would have no memory of the suggestion.

    After coming out of hypnosis, Diamond later took out his handkerchief to blow his nose, and Sirhan began climbing on the bars of his cell.  Then he confabulated in typical fashion.  When asked why he was climbing on the bars, Sirhan said that he was "exercising."

    My own belief is that Sirhan was acting compulsively on subconscious post-hypnotic suggestions when he went to the Ambassador Hotel and encountered the girl in the polka dress-- who became his guide to the pantry before cuing his "range mode" response.

    The girl in the polka dress was, evidently, working for William Bryan, Jolyon West, or whoever programmed Sirhan to act as a patsy/decoy.

    Incidentally, have you ever witnessed any cases of hypnosis and the the behavioral effects of hypnotic suggestions?

   

I only witnessed hypnosis once in my life, at a stage show in Glendale CA. 

The hypnotist on stage asked for volunteers, who appeared to be genuine. Audience was a few hundred. 

Perhaps eight sat on stage, and the hypnotist put seven of the eight "under."  (I happened to be seated near or in the front row---this was 25-30 years ago). 

As the hypnotist put the volunteers under, I felt the tug also.  I have wondered since if the hypnotist used a sleeping gas of some sort. 

Then, of course, the hypnotized did things under the spell. Of course, several participants could have been plants. 

What I would like to get my hands on, if they exist, is the CIA documents regarding the use of Manchurian candidates to assassinate foreign officials, as alluded to by Dr. Brown in the video. Unfortunately, Dr. Brown and Alan Scheflin are not responding to my e-mails. 

My guess is post-hypnotic suggestion has been shown to work for up to hours after the suggestion, in some cases. If Sirhan was easily hypnotized, then yes, perhaps he would climb the bars in post-hypnotic suggestion. On the other, perhaps Sirhan is conning the investigators. 

We don't know what literature Sirhan has read.

The key question: Can a human being really be programmed to do something days or weeks in advance? 

In some ways, the point is moot...if the bullets removed from RFK do not match Sirhan's gun....

Maybe Sirhan had a "refresher" hypnosis-treatment while at the Ambassador. The polka-dot dress girl. 

In any event, if you read this, you will see Sirhan was railroaded by his own lawyer---

https://info.publicintelligence.net/SirhanSirhanPlea.pdf

 

 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

Update.  In Chapter 11 of his 1979 book, The Search For the Manchurian Candidate, John Marks summarizes the available evidence from interviews and the (un-shredded) MK-ULTRA records about the fate of the Manchurian candidate research.

As I suspected, the trail, more or less, disappears.  Chapter 11 bankruptcy?

He points out that various consultants from ARTICHOKE and MK-ULTRA disagreed by 1963 about the feasibility of hypnotically programming a Manchurian candidate.   Morse Allen and a psychologist at the University of Denver named Alden Sears believed it was feasible, but ethically controversial to test.

Martin Orne (at Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania) opined, publicly, that it was "ineffective."

Milton Kline (in New York) believed it was feasible, claiming he could create a "Manchurian" assassin in six months.

George Estabrooks was not mentioned at all in the Chapter 11.

Nor were there any references in Chapter 11 to William Joseph Bryan or Jolyon West.

James Angleton, reportedly, believed that hypnotic techniques could revolutionize clandestine ops, but his operations were shrouded in secrecy.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Update.  In Chapter 11 of his 1979 book, The Search For the Manchurian Candidate, John Marks summarizes the available evidence from interviews and the (un-shredded) MK-ULTRA records about the fate of the Manchurian candidate research.

As I suspected, the trail, more or less, disappears.  Chapter 11 bankruptcy?

He points out that various consultants from ARTICHOKE and MK-ULTRA disagreed by 1963 about the feasibility of hypnotically programming a Manchurian candidate.   Morse Allen and a psychologist at the University of Denver named Alden Sears believed it was feasible, but ethically controversial to test.

Martin Orne (at Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania) opined, publicly, that it was "ineffective."

Milton Kline (in New York) believed it was feasible, claiming he could create a "Manchurian" assassin in six months.

George Estabrooks was not mentioned at all in the Chapter 11.

Nor were there any references in Chapter 11 to William Joseph Bryan or Jolyon West.

James Angleton, reportedly, believed that hypnotic techniques could revolutionize clandestine ops, but his operations were shrouded in secrecy.

As you’ve just finished chapter 11. Was there a bit where a communist defector was mentioned in 1959, who wanted to come home but, feared the interrogation? 

[W. Niederhut]

5 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

As you’ve just finished chapter 11. Was there a bit where a communist defector was mentioned in 1959, who wanted to come home but, feared the interrogation? 

Marks mentioned a case of an foreigner who feared interrogation and/or torture if he returned to his native country-- in the context of MK-ULTRA deliberations about whether he could be hypnotized to overcome his fear of returning home.  If I recall correctly, hypnosis didn't help.

I don't recall the year.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Marks mentioned a case of an foreigner who feared interrogation and/or torture if he returned to his native country-- in the context of MK-ULTRA deliberations about whether he could be hypnotized to overcome his fear of returning home.  If I recall correctly, hypnosis didn't help.

I don't recall the year.

Thanks. I remembered something like that but, it was a fear of the interrogation techniques upon return. I need to read it again. I could be incorrect. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Chris Barnard
Typo

[Ron Bulman]

Something that stands out to me in the last month's reading on the subject is that of childhood traumatization in relation to hypnotization.  It seems children subjected to such are much more likely to be in that 20% most easily hypnotized.  

From memory and recent reading.  A Jim D / K&K article linked above on.  Sirhan's brother was killed by being run over by a tank in 1946.  Then his sister died from Leukemia in the earlier 60's in the US.

Somewhere I Think I've read he also witnessed as a child before coming to the US the killing of a soldier in the street in front of his home in Jordan, the poisoning of the common well with dead bodies, the takeover and shelling of his home forcing their move out.  Any of which would be traumatizing to an adult, much less a child. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Somewhere I Think I've read he also witnessed as a child before coming to the US the killing of a soldier in the street in front of his home in Jordan, the poisoning of the common well with dead bodies, the takeover and shelling of his home forcing their move out.  Any of which would be traumatizing to an adult, much less a child. 

That was all in a DOC I saw. Massive amounts of trauma. For those who are intimate with Oswald's youth, could he have been a candidate for hypnosis also? He isn't profiled as MPD, he was characterised a schizoid (or something).