What has blocked the Marcello-Trafficante solution to the JFK assassination? The legacy of Garrison?

[Greg Doudna]

5 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

As for Marcello, why would the US government cover up an assassination carried out by the Mafia? And continue to actively to do so for sixty years? It simply makes no sense. In contrast, it makes perfect sense to continue covering up the fact that the CIA did it. As much as many people hate the CIA, even many of those folks are afraid what might happen if it were dismantled for its crimes while the KGB's successor agencies' continue operating.

You ask why would there be a coverup of a mob role in a killing of a US president? Perhaps because of where that would go from there. Questions of why it was not investigated. Who was involved and who knew what when... better to leave some skeletons in the closet. The official response to the credible report known to the FBI in 1986 of a confession by Marcello, case in point. 

[Greg Doudna]

16 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

the Two John Davis books paint a convincing picture to me that Marcello was behind the assassination and the most sensible explanation. I would even suggest that for those Lone Nut defenders who like to misquote Occam's Razor as support for the official story, the marcello theory is actually the best argument.  

I agree. Occam's Razor--when given a choice between two explanations, all else being equal, the simpler explanation is to be preferred--points to Marcello. Or to put it a different way, Occam's Razor suggests who was behind Ruby killing Oswald, was behind the killing of the president Oswald was accused of killing.

 

[Pat Speer]

It's important to note that the mob and CIA were quite cozy in those days. It would seem to me that someone (say Marcello) would hire someone (say Maheu) to kill JFK and make it look like the Russians did it. Maheu would then have a few informal chats with a few of his CIA contacts (say perhaps Phillips) to find out who would be the perfect patsy. And Phillips would say "I have just the guy!" 

After that it was all CYA. LBJ would let it be known the country would be better off thinking it was a lone but, and most everyone would join him in assassinating the supposed assassin. It's kinda like Murder on the Orient Express, when you think of it. Only they had the wrong guy... 

[Michael Crane]

Thanks David.I got a chance to watch your video after I posted.I like your evidence better than mine.

[Greg Doudna]

Well put Pat. Oswald worked for Marcello and grew up with family in the Marcello organization. Oswald also was mixed up in US intelligence in murky ways. Oswald was useful to both.

It is just obvious Ruby tried to talk, tried to get to a position where he could talk safely, sought the equivalent of Federal Witness Protection, and Earl Warren and co. just had no intention of doing anything more than going through pro forma motions at the last minute of interviewing Ruby to check that off the checklist. 

It is just obvious that district attorney Garrison was going every which way with accusations of JFK assassins except for the elephant in his front yard, the crime boss of 3-1/2 states. Ferrie, Banister, and Oswald all were connected to Marcello, as well as, according to street talk in New Orleans, Garrison himself (Vaccara, 178-180 citing New Orleans attorney Fritz Westenberger). 

For crime bosses who had nothing to do with the JFK assassination according to some here, there sure was a lot of effort to keep people from looking at such innocent parties, crime bosses who had motive, connections, and working relationships inside governments at all levels, federal, state, and local. If anyone questions whether there was witting coverup of a mob connection of Ruby on the part of FBI (not meaning every individual in the FBI but policy from the top), take a look at Warren Commission Exhibit 1536, FBI interview of Bobby Gene Moore of 11/26/63, as it was submitted to the Warren Commission: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1139#relPageId=59. Then look at the same document as it appeared in the earlier FBI report of Dec 1963 in the National Archives (Commission Document 84--FBI Clements Report of 06 Dec 1963): https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10486#relPageId=92.

The comparison shows, as cannot be seen by looking at CE 1536 alone, that the copy of that document submitted by the FBI to the Warren Commission has had the bottom half of the page literally papered over in photocopying and then the traces whited out so as to conceal all traces that part of the text of that document had literally been disappeared. In the part intentionally disappeared is: "Ruby was also a frequent associate of Cirello and La Monte", that is, a witness telling that Ruby was a frequent associate of Joseph Civello, the mob boss of Dallas under Marcello.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Greg Doudna

[Sandy Larsen]

7 hours ago, Michael Crane said:

Need help with an answer for another forum.I remember reading a long time ago that the mafia had the goods on J.Edgar Hoover.The goods consisted of J.Edgar Hoover in compromising gay photos at a party.This allowed the mafia to blackmail Hoover.Was it Marcello that had the goods? Maybe even Gianacana?

Anybody else read the rumors that I have read?

 

I've read a couple times that Angleton had that or something like that. Though I don't think I read it in a book. Just on the internet, maybe even this forum

[Norman T. Field]

Apparently there were multiple copies floating about. I've read multiple accounts where one guy said Marcello showed it to him, another who said that Lansky showed it to him, yet another said Frank Costello showed him the pics. 

[Paul Brancato]

2 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Well put Pat. Oswald worked for Marcello and grew up with family in the Marcello organization. Oswald also was mixed up in US intelligence in murky ways. Oswald was useful to both.

It is just obvious Ruby tried to talk, tried to get to a position where he could talk safely, sought the equivalent of Federal Witness Protection, and Earl Warren and co. just had no intention of doing anything more than going through pro forma motions at the last minute of interviewing Ruby to check that off the checklist. 

It is just obvious that district attorney Garrison was going every which way with accusations of JFK assassins except for the elephant in his front yard, the crime boss of 3-1/2 states. Ferrie, Banister, and Oswald all were connected to Marcello, as well as, according to street talk in New Orleans, Garrison himself (Vaccara, 178-180 citing New Orleans attorney Fritz Westenberger). 

For crime bosses who had nothing to do with the JFK assassination according to some here, there sure was a lot of effort to keep people from looking at such innocent parties, crime bosses who had motive, connections, and working relationships inside governments at all levels, federal, state, and local. Marcello, for example, was alleged to have given a HUGE bundle of illegal cash to Nixon in the 1960 campaign--$500,000, the equivalent of ca. 5 million in today's dollars--so much so that one could almost interpret RFK's vendetta against Marcello as going after the chief financier of a political opponent--or Marcello's knocking off Kennedy as raising a question of could Nixon be in the background. (I am not aware of evidence of Nixon knowledge of the JFK assassination, and the only reason for voicing it at all is because Nixon is known to have operated dirty tricks against other political opponents such as Ted Kennedy, and as is known from the Watergate tapes, personally instructing E.H. Hunt to plant literature in Arthur Bremer's apartment falsely implicating McGovern and Democrats in the Bremer assassination attempt against Nixon's political rival George Wallace. That Nixon was capable of dirty tricks and even violence to take out political rivals is not in question; the only question is in which specific cases.) This is now messy 1960's politics was, and why some court historians today might think there are some things Americans do not need to know for their peace of mind. 

If anyone has the slightest question that there was witting coverup of a mob connection of Ruby on the part of FBI (not meaning every individual in the FBI but policy from the top), take a look at Warren Commission Exhibit 1536, FBI interview of Bobby Gene Moore of 11/26/63, as it was submitted to the Warren Commission: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1139#relPageId=59. Then look at the same document as it appeared in the earlier FBI report of Dec 1963 in the National Archives (Commission Document 84--FBI Clements Report of 06 Dec 1963): https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10486#relPageId=92.

The comparison shows, as cannot be seen by looking at CE 1536 alone, that the copy of that document submitted by the FBI to the Warren Commission has had the bottom half of the page literally papered over in photocopying and then the traces whited out so as to conceal all traces that part of the text of that document had literally been disappeared. In the part intentionally disappeared is: "Ruby was also a frequent associate of Cirello and La Monte", that is, a witness telling that Ruby was a frequent associate of Joseph Civello, the mob boss of Dallas under Marcello.

Greg - Ruby tried to talk - he dropped hints about General Walker and the John Birch Society. I was not aware that he did likewise with Marcello.

if you are positing that CIA worked with Mafia on the assassination what was the operational order? Did the Mafia enlist the CIA and DPD to cover up their dirty deed? Or did the CIA outsource the assassination to Mafia? Harvey’s notes on Executive Action specifically mention using non Sicilians, presumably Corsican or French shooters, to make it harder to trace. 

[Matt Allison]

The problem with saying "the mob did it" is that it only takes a modicum of digging before realizing that if they had anything to do with this, there were other non-mob people that had far more to do with it.

I don't think Marcello saying "kill him" makes him responsible, if that even happened. Marcello didn't plan or do anything himself, so putting all the blame on him just doesn't hold water.

The Bay of Pigs is why JFK was murdered. I don't really feel like there's any mystery about that.

[Greg Doudna]

14 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

The problem with saying "the mob did it" is that it only takes a modicum of digging before realizing that if they had anything to do with this, there were other non-mob people that had far more to do with it.

I don't think Marcello saying "kill him" makes him responsible, if that even happened. Marcello didn't plan or do anything himself, so putting all the blame on him just doesn't hold water.

The Bay of Pigs is why JFK was murdered. I don't really feel like there's any mystery about that.

Strange to say Matt I agree with every word of what you say here with the exception of the one clause "Marcello didn't plan or do anything himself". But take out those words and I agree on everything else. Marcello was responsible, and he wasn't responsible. Like Lieutenant Calley and My Lai. Or like James Earl Ray and the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr.

At the top level I believe JFK was removed because he crossed certain political lines. A sense that "JFK has gone too far" and "something needs to be done". But in Dallas and Dealey Plaza, what is seen in terms of evidence is a Mob hit combined with a patsy with intelligence-agency history, a Castro-linked communist, himself to be killed immediately and set up to make Castro look responsible, the ultimate casus bellus for the desired removal of Castro in Cuba and end to the threat of an end to the Cold War that JFK represented. That sense at top levels is followed by a fact on the ground, in Dallas in Nov 1963, in which JFK is killed and CIA disinformation is immediately begun implicating Castro, e.g. the "Pedro Charles" letters, the arrest and interrogation of Silvia Duran, and so on.

The evidence of the assassination that happened, that fact on the ground, goes to Marcello and Trafficante. This is just fact--at least what the partial facts that are known indicate. Cannot speak of all the facts since there are significant unknowns, but the knowns.

Specifically by looking at who is known to have been involved. Ruby--mob linked to Trafficante and Marcello. Craford, if the argument is correct that Craford was the killer of Tippit, would-be killer of Oswald in the Texas Theatre, and the individual earlier seen and overheard by attorney Jarnagin on Oct 4 meeting and talking with Ruby at the Carousel Club. Craford is mob from California, now Teamsters Dallas and Ruby. 

Who else--go to less-certain but possible to likely figures: Brading of the unusual movements and Dal-Tex Building presence, mob. David Ferrie of the unusual likely plot-associated driving to Houston and Galveston, Marcello operative. David Ferrie of the attempt to get access to Oswald's former room in New Orleans by the bogus "lost library card" claim (John Canal's interpretation of the circumstances of that). 

The shooters themselves other than Oswald, identities remain unknown in terms of hard evidence with a lot of bogus and unsubstantiated claims, but two names that rank high in terms of given serious consideration and possible credibility come from Fabian Escalante's account of information from captured prisoner Tony Cuesta claiming Herminio Diaz and Eladio del Valle were in Dallas as part of the hit team. They are mob (Trafficante). As brought out in the article by Paul Bleau on Kennedys and King, "The CIA and Mafia's 'Cuban American Mechanism' and the JFK Assassination" (https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-cia-and-mafia-s-cuban-american-mechanism-and-the-jfk-assassination), "Robert Blakey had the Diaz story corroborated by another Cuban exile. Diaz was Trafficante’s bodyguard and a hitman. Del Valle worked for Trafficante in the U.S. and was an associate of his in Cuba".

There is John Martino, one of the more possibly credible instances of one involved who "talked": he was mob (Trafficante). 

If Oswald's own Marcello organization associations via Ferrie and Oswald's uncle are acknowledged (even though Oswald had a history with and was used by intelligence agencies as well), that makes mob fingerprints on 100%, every single one, of this short list of known and/or likely/possible persons involved in the assassination that happened.

Therefore that is the case for Marcello and Trafficante carrying out a mob hit of Kennedy in Dallas. Because just on the face of it, to the extent named individuals can be identified involved in the assassination, they are all mob figures who did it, or so it appears. One can speculate involvement in Dallas of non-mob assassins or operatives without a Marcello or Trafficante connection, but that is all that is--speculation and imagination (or questionable confession claims). To the extent of the limited information that is known, it looks like a Marcello and Trafficante hit. 

The article just cited of Paul Bleau is an excellent discussion developing information and understanding of a "nexus" (to use Larry Hancock's term) between what is strongly suspected to have happened at top level--"something needs to be done" kind of discussions--and then through unknown specific mechanisms in due course a translation of   such discussions into what concretely happened on the ground that day in Dallas--an appearance of a mob hit as HSCA found. Or as HSCA put it:

"The Assassinations Committee established that Jack Ruby was a friend and business associate of Joseph Civello, Carlos Marcello's deputy in Dallas.  ... The committee had little choice but to regard the Ruby-Campisi [#2 Dallas mob below Civello] relationship and the Campisi-Marcello relationship as yet another set of associations strengthening the committee's growing suspicion of the Marcello crime family's involvement in a conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy or execute the President's alleged assassin or both."

It is not credible to suppose the silencing of Oswald by killing him was not integral to the assassination plot. The only reason it took two days to happen was because attempts to kill Oswald the same-day afternoon were unsuccessful. The killing of Oswald was mob, and that argues the killing of JFK preceding the intended killing of Oswald minutes or hours later also was mob. At least that is how it looks. Without claiming that Marcello and Trafficante "acted alone".

So Marcello and Trafficante may have been responsible for the assassination, and not responsible for the assassination, at the same time depending on perspective. Just as in the cases of Lieutenant Calley, and James Earl Ray.

[Michael Crane]

On 3/10/2022 at 3:28 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Another sixty years of mystery? What are you talking about Greg? The JFK assassination was solved decades ago and the solution has only gotten more refined since then. The CIA did it with apparently some military, Secret Service, and DPD compliance. Only the CIA could have orchestrated the fake Mexico City trip that was used to create a Cuban/Russian false flag operation and to frame Oswald.

 

 

What? The CIA was incapable of doing what you suggest Marcello did for the assassination plot? And the FBI was incapable of doing what you suggest Marcello did for the coverup? How can you possibly believe those things?

As for Marcello, why would the US government cover up an assassination carried out by the Mafia? And continue to actively to do so for sixty years? It simply makes no sense. In contrast, it makes perfect sense to continue covering up the fact that the CIA did it. As much as many people hate the CIA, even many of those folks are afraid what might happen if it were dismantled for its crimes while the KGB's successor agencies' continue operating.

 

You know Sandy,I was giving this some thought.I can see where a deal was made with LBJ & the mafia.The mafia says that they will make the hit & LBJ agrees to cover it up.

[Paul Brancato]

Did Ruby drop hints about Marcello and Traficante? 
 

 

[Michael Crane]

32 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Did Ruby drop hints about Marcello and Traficante? 
 

 

Not on his polygraph test.

Q. Did you know Oswald before November 22, 1963?
A. No.33
Q. Did you assist Oswald in the assassination?
A. No. 34
Q. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?

Page 810

A. No.36
Q. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?
A. No.37
Q. Are you now a member of any group that advocates the violent overthrow of the United States Government?
A. No.38
Q. Have you ever been a member of any group that advocates violent overthrow of the United States Government?
A. No.39
Q. Between the assassination and the shooting, did anybody you know tell you they knew Oswald?
A. No.40
Q. Aside from anything you said to George Senator on Sunday morning, did you ever tell anyone else that you intended to shoot Oswald?
A. No.41
Q. Did you shoot Oswald in order to silence him?
A. No. 42
Q. Did you first decide to shoot Oswald on Friday night?
A. No. 43
Q. Did you first decide to shoot Oswald on Saturday morning?
A. No.43
Q. Did you first decide to shoot Oswald on Saturday night?
A. No.44
Q. Did you first decide to shoot Oswald on Sunday Morning?
A. Yes.45
Q. Were you on the sidewalk at the time Lieutenant Pierce's car stopped on the ramp exit?
A. Yes.46
Q. Did you enter the jail by walking through an alleyway?
A. No.47
Q. Did you walk past the guard at the time Lieutenant Pierce's car was parked on the ramp exit?
A. Yes.48
Q. Did you talk with any Dallas police officers on Sunday, November 24, prior to the shooting of Oswald?
A. No.49
Q. Did you see the armored car before it entered the basement?
A. No.50
Q. Did you enter the police department through a door at the rear of the east side of the jail?
A. No.51
Q. After talking to Little Lynn did you hear any announcement that Oswald was about to be moved?
A. No.52
Q. Before you left your apartment Sunday morning, did anyone tell you the armored car was on the way to the police department?

Page 811

A. No.53
Q. Did you get a Wall Street Journal at the Southwestern Drug Store during the week before the assassination?
A. No.54
Q. Do you have any knowledge of a Wall Street Journal addressed to Mr. J. E. Bradshaw?
A. No.55
Q. To your knowledge, did any of your friends or did you telephone the FBI in Dallas between 2 or 3 a.m. Sunday morning?
A. No.56
Q. Did you or any of your friends to your knowledge telephone the sheriff's office between 2 or 8 a.m. Sunday morning?
A. No.57
Q. Did you go to the Dallas police station at any time on Friday, November 22, 1963, before you went to the synagogue?
A. No.58
Q. Did you go to the synagogue that Friday night?
A. Yes.59
Q. Did you see Oswald in the Dallas jail on Friday night?
A. Yes.60
Q. Did you have a gun with you when you went to the Friday midnight press conference at the jail?
A. No.61
Q. Is everything you told the Warren Commission the entire truth?
A. Yes.62
Q. Have you ever knowingly attended any meetings of the Communist Party or any other group that advocates violent overthrow of the Government?
A. No.63
Q. Is any member of your immediate family or any close friend, a member of the Communist Party?
A. No.64
Q. Is any member of your immediate family or any close friend a member of any group that advocates the violent overthrow of the Government?
A. No.65
Q. Did any close friend or any member of your immediate family ever attend a meeting of the Communist Party?
A. No.66
Q. Did any close friend or any member of your immediate family ever attend a meeting of any group that advocates the violent, overthrow of the Government?
A. No.67
Q. Did you ever meet Oswald at your post office box?
A. No.68
Q. Did you use your post office mailbox to do any business with Mexico or Cuba?

Page 812

A. No.69
Q. Did you do business with Castro-Cuba?
A. No.70
Q. Was your trip to Cuba solely for pleasure?
A. Yes.71
Q. Have you now told us the truth concerning why you carried $2,200 in cash on you?
A. Yes. 72
Q. Did any foreign influence cause you to shoot Oswald?
A. No.73
Q. Did you shoot Oswald because of any influence of the underworld?
A. No.74
Q. Did you shoot Oswald because of a labor union influence?
A. No.75
Q. Did any long-distance telephone calls which you made before the assassination of the President have anything to do with the assassination?
A. No.76
Q. Did any of your long-distance telephone calls concern the shooting of Oswald?
A. No.77
Q. Did you shoot Oswald in order to save Mrs. Kennedy the ordeal of a trial?
A. Yes.78
Q. Did you know the Tippit that was killed?
A. No.79
Q. Did you tell the truth about relaying the message to Ray Brantley to get McWillie a few guns?
A. Yes.80
Q. Did you go to the assembly room on Friday night to get the telephone number of KLIF?
A. Yes.81
Q. Did you ever meet with Oswald and Officer Tippit at your club?
A. No 82
Q. Were you at the Parkland Hospital at any time on Friday?
A. No.83
Q. Did you say anything when you shot Oswald other than what you've testified about?
A. No.84
Q. Have members of your family been physically harmed because of what you did?
A. No.85
Q. Do you think members of your family are now in danger because of what you did?
(No response.) 86
Q. Is Mr. Fowler in danger because he is defending you?
(No response.) 87

Page 813

Q. Did "Blackie" Hanson speak to you just before you shot Oswald?
A. No.88

 

[Matt Allison]

To the question "did you ever do business with Castro or Cuba?" he answered "no", and don't we already know that wasn't true? I mean perhaps there's some nuance but that just seems like a red flag there.

[Paul Brancato]

I’m referring to comments reportedly made to Warren and or WC staff while trying to convince them that he would have something more to say if they got him out of Dallas. He mentioned LBJ and General Walker specifically, as well as the John Birch Society if I recall. As for the official questioning, I prefer to believe Seth Kantor when he says he saw and spoke with Ruby at Parkland. It was solid eye witness testimony. Lying on that one question, assuming Ruby did, makes many more of his answers suspect. 
Gordon McClendon was close to Ruby, and to David Phillips. Many DPD hung out at the Carousel according to many witnesses. I’m sure some Cops were mobbed up. I’m also sure that many of them had other connections - military intelligence for one - McClendon was ex-Navy Intelligence. Phillips of course we know about. The Mafia weren’t they only people that could potentially pull Ruby’s strings.