Jump to content
The Education Forum

Destiny Betrayed 2022

Recommended Posts

40 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:


I have been thinking further on that Jan 11, 1967 LBJ/Abe Fortas phone call in which LBJ says, “if we'd had anybody less than ... the chief justice, I would already have been indicted”.

I don't think that is LBJ saying if not for Earl Warren he would have been indicted for killing JFK. I also think it is not exactly clear whether he is referring to Earl Warren as head of the Warren Commission or of the Supreme Court. I think the "indictment" alludes to the known risk and spectre and issue of indictment many believe LBJ faced, conceivably prison, in his last months as vice-president before Nov 22, 1963, in the Bobby Baker scandal and a congressional investigation which was dropped after Nov 22, 1963.

In the context of that phone call, LBJ sees the Kennedys as controlling media and able through media and targeted prosecutions to take down their opponents. As he cited other cases of victims of the Kennedy machine taken down (in that phone call continuing after the transcript excerpt), he saw himself as one such in his earlier experience and near-miss of the Bobby Baker scandals. Exactly how in LBJ's reasoning Earl Warren made the difference in LBJ not being indicted I do not know. As chief justice Earl Warren gave decisions favorable to civil rights legislation that was a success of the Johnson presidency, would that be it? If the meaning was Earl Warren as the head of the Warren Commission, perhaps it was having a final report exonerate every agency and portray Johnson sympathetically, reducing pressure in Congress to prosecute a sitting president.

The main point is there is no confession of the JFK assassination there unless one goes for Freudian slip explanations.



LBJ is not confessing. He is saying that if it weren't for Warren and the Warren Commission, Bobby would have found some way to make it look like he was responsible for JFK's death. You really need to look at the history of the men. While most today see Johnson as a Machiavellian manipulator, he routinely pushed on people that it was Bobby who was power-hungry. 

I see that as one of Johnson's manipulations. Like Putin claiming the Ukrainians are Nazis, Johnson and his cohorts were always pushing that Johnson was just a po' victim of RFK--the real bad guy. 

I discuss this in great detail in chapters 1 and 21. It really came to a head with the publication of the Manchester book. Johnson saw it as an RFK plot to make him look bad and steal the nomination in 68, when the reality was that Jackie and RFK were fighting like hell to stop the release of the original version of the book, which was heavily critical of Johnson. 

Here is another segment from chapter 1. 


Now...let's go back to the "smoking gun" document... Note that one of the arguments the CIA planned on using to assure the world Johnson was above reproach was that a "Conspiracy on the large scale often suggested would be impossible to conceal in the United States, esp. since informants could expect to receive large royalties, etc. Note that Robert Kennedy, Attorney General at the time and John F. Kennedy's brother, would be the last man to overlook or conceal any conspiracy."

Well, this was grossly unfair. Robert Kennedy did not participate in the investigation of his brother's murder. He never even read the report of Earl Warren's commission.

This argument was also familiar. On November 4 1966, just when critics of the Warren Commission started gaining traction, President Johnson made a similar argument at a press conference. He offered: "The late, beloved President's brother was Attorney General during the period the Warren Commission was studying this thing. I certainly would think he would have a very thorough interest in seeing that the truth was made evident." (Note that this was well after Johnson first started musing that the "beloved President's brother," Robert Kennedy, was behind all these critics...)

The lie RFK cleared LBJ was then repeated by those closest to Johnson. A January 1968 letter to the New York Times by John Roche (subsequently quoted in its January 5 edition), offered: "Any fair analysis of Sen. Robert Kennedy's abilities, his character and of the resources at his disposal as Attorney General would indicate that if there were a conspiracy, he would have pursued its protagonists to the ends of the earth." Now, Roche was a "Special Consultant" to Johnson, his so-called "intellectual in residence." Roche had written Johnson a memo on 11-23-66 urging Johnson to make countering the critics of the Warren Commission a "top priority" of his administration. Well, this argument "Bobby would have caught the bad guys" was clearly part of Johnson's, and thereafter Roche's, playbook. Was it just a coincidence, then, that it soon became part of the CIA's?

It should come as no surprise, moreover, that this sticky substance stuck to Johnson for the remainder of his days. In 1971, Johnson published The Vantage Point, his presidential memoir. On page 25, he relates: "One of the most urgent tasks facing me after I assumed office was to assure the country that everything possible was being done to uncover the truth surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy. John Kennedy had been murdered, and a troubled, puzzled, and outraged nation wanted to know the facts. Led by the Attorney General who wanted no stone unturned, the FBI was working on the case 24 hours a day and Director J. Edgar Hoover was in constant communication with me."

Well, this was bullshit of a presidential magnitude. Serious crap. Johnson knew full well that Robert Kennedy barely followed the FBI's investigation, and most certainly never "led" it. Kennedy even put this on the record, signing a statement to the Warren Commission declaring ""As you know, I am personally not aware of the detailed results of the extensive investigation in this matter which has been conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation." What's worse, Kennedy's statement was an understatement...a gross understatement. The June 4, 1964 memo of Warren Commission counsel Howard Willens, in which Kennedy's signing such a statement was proposed, admits "The proposed response by the Attorney General has, of course, not been approved by him, or on his behalf by the Deputy Attorney General. It represents a revision of an earlier letter which I did show to them during my conference with them earlier today. At that time the Attorney General informed me that he had not received any reports from the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation regarding the investigation of the assassination."

And it's not as if Robert Kennedy later studied these materials... Deputy Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach, in a 10-8-69 oral history performed for the Kennedy Library, admitted that Robert Kennedy "didn't approve" of the Warren Commission and never read its report. He said further that "I like to think that deep down he understood that it had to be done" and that, whatever his feelings on the matter, "he understood that he had to endorse it..." Katzenbach then added: "but he wouldn't read it."

So...gulp...President Johnson was not only so paranoid he thought Robert Kennedy was behind the rumors he'd killed President Kennedy, and so concerned about these rumors he thought that only his appointing Chief Justice Earl Warren to chair the commission investigating President Kennedy's murder had saved him from an indictment for murder (and a reputation as one of the world's most evil men), but so ruthless he was willing to use Robert Kennedy's deep remorse over his brother's murder, and resultant failure to promptly investigate his brother's murder, to suggest what he (Johnson) undoubtedly KNEW was untrue--that Robert Kennedy, President Kennedy's brother, ("Bobby"), had led the FBI's investigation into President Kennedy's murder, and cleared Johnson of all wrong-doing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 114
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Ed Curtin has been a real boon for Oliver and the film.

His review of the long version has now posted at about six sites, including Rockwell.   

Rockwell  alone gets about 300,000 viewers per month, and they are not from Sri Lanka.


Thanks Ed.  There will be a couple more of these upcoming.  And there will be a press release also for a big event to be staged soon.  Not in Sri Lanka either.


Edited by James DiEugenio
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are the sites that this posted at:

Global Research, Dissident Report, Lew Rockwell, Off-Guardian, Unz, Transcend Media, and probably at others that I am not aware of.

Are any of those in Sri Lanka?

PS Note I have been rather kind about Speer and GD hijacking this thread.  

Edited by James DiEugenio
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Here are the sites that his posted at:

Global Research, Dissident Report, Lew Rockwell, Off-Guardian, Unz, Transcend Media, and probably at others that I am not aware of.

Are any of those in Sri Lanka?

PS Note I have been rather kind about Speer and GD hijacking this thread.  

Not intentional. Apologies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

This is really great news:



Oliver Stone meets Quebec City


Quebec City, April 20, 2022 – The Quebec City film festival (QCFF) has invited the American filmmaker Oliver Stone to the Diamant Theater this June 15, for an intimate evening with the public in which he will discuss JFK’s assassination, following the release of the documentary JFK Revisited, a film he has recently produced. Quebec City Meets Oliver Stone will take the form of a lively discussion led by the journalist Jean-François Lépine, a discussion that will concentrate on the career of this renowned American filmmaker. In the setting of a sit-down interview, Oliver Stone will speak on the various themes that have marked his career and have inspired his work.


“This is a strong re-commencement of the QCFF 's activities after an involuntary break of almost two years," says Martin Genois, QCFF 's Executive Director. “Oliver Stone's appearance is the first of several upcoming events that highlight compelling and inspirational stories and which allow the public to create a close bond with our guests and discover them beyond the film.”


Tickets will be on sale as of noon today on the Diamant Theater website.


The visit of the famous filmmaker in Quebec City was first initiated by Paul Bleau, specialist in the assassination of JFK that was interviewed as an expert in the documentary JFK Revisited. Mr. Bleau will closely collaborate with the QCFF in the realisation of this special event.


Special Oliver Stone week at the Cinema Le Clap

Also, from June 6 to 10, Le Clap Cinema will present a retrospective of some of Oliver Stone's fictional works, while a JFK special awaits moviegoers and history buffs from June 12 to 14. Approximately 250 people will have the opportunity to meet Oliver Stone during a Q&A session following the screening of the documentary JFK Revisited on June 13.


About Oliver Stone

A fixture within the industry for almost 40 years, Oliver Stone is a director, screenwriter, producer and best-selling author. Stone won his first Academy Award for Best Adapted Screenplay for Midnight Express (1978) and won his second and third as Best Director for Platoon (1986) and Born on the Fourth of July (1989) respectively. Other notable projects include Wall Street (1987), JFK (1991), Nixon (1995), W.(2008), Savages (2012) and 2016′s Snowden, along with the screenplay for Brian De Palma’s 1983 film Scarface which went on to become one of the most iconic films in history.


About Jean-François Lépine

One of Canada’s best journalists, Jean-François Lépine acted as a Canadian diplomat in China, from October 2015 to June 2021, where he served as the Director of the Québec Government offices in this country. Before living in China, Mr. Lépine was a partner of Avistra International Inc, a consulting firm on international strategies.  Foreign correspondent for the French and English networks of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) in Peking, Paris and Jerusalem, from 1982 to 1990, he is known as a great communicator.  Between 1990 and 2013, he hosted and created some of the French CBC’s best current affairs programs.


Thank you to our sponsors:

        0?ui=2&ik=1dd560c490&attid=0.0.2&permmsgid=msg-f:1730629257572946614&th=18046e23f78892b6&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ9pgXzLpMZwU-vYw_s68VgfeCGuO243x509EqUdf_YwLHwIF0gAc3Rh-smEf0DA-rFpvO10Q-it47LIcxhRxcoz0Y3T5ThSVWxOmLLaO29WIisM0jodXN386LE&disp=emb  0?ui=2&ik=1dd560c490&attid=0.0.3&permmsgid=msg-f:1730629257572946614&th=18046e23f78892b6&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ-RB4ACGxNENlIWu3RkdzSulCHRwTL6FurbcpiSR38iUDOFhjvh5IInvxiViN3yDuSwWnvpYbVEPhjBQ1ZGdSxqsRV2yv47qIaaerC6thqMIf7tmlZjHqdMuQE&disp=emb0?ui=2&ik=1dd560c490&attid=0.0.4&permmsgid=msg-f:1730629257572946614&th=18046e23f78892b6&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ89xaZbW1tnGb6TbjA2Y5vd3D9GUQGVnwiVE5H-sir_ZLLTcihO822nU95vrnWG0MXeX9jX7_azeHCE1XimJ7RvMPrZ6NcdB_SNFEyzv6318FbOAmwra87Rl9U&disp=emb0?ui=2&ik=1dd560c490&attid=0.0.5&permmsgid=msg-f:1730629257572946614&th=18046e23f78892b6&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ_2o7TNJ6eA0Hs95rFQ_W5Bt-DCBmdx3XQLbIMeMXUm9Zh4tiLFc6TUETdE3mrPOLvRI-_BYL-xZI-C-QFqpDvUSyPoN8KMtrUCiwRy0e1TIGk1nlanayJaboM&disp=emb

Edited by James DiEugenio
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What this means to anyone who understands the movie business is this:

JFK Revisited will have had a year long window.  Which is  amazing in the film world.  A "window" refers to the time between when a film debuts, and when it goes to DVD sale and is retired from public showings.  As I have said, usually a good healthy window for a feature film is 6 months.  Many features do not even have that, some go straight to DVD sales after they have been seen on planes.

For a documentary to have a year long window is really exceptional.  To have a documentary about the JFK case, where you know everyone is laying for you, I mean I do not recall any prior JFK documentary having anywhere near this kind of reach or window. 

I think this Quebec CIty event will more or less coincide with the release of both the DVD and the book.  In other words the window for the film will have closed with a bang.


PS  Someone ask Steve Roe, is Quebec City in Sri Lanka?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you live in the Northeast quadrant of the USA, you should think of going to this.

Quebec City is really a thing of beauty to see.  They shoot movies there because of the backdrop it provides.

Also Montreal  is only two hours away or so.  Which means we will be getting some media.  

This is the second major city film festival that JFK Revisited has headlined, the other was Rome.  We made the major newspapers there and we will do it here also.  There will be a lot of announcements about this later: who will be there and major media hook ups.  There is a lot of money behind this.

Stay tuned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have a solid date on that Joe.

Oliver and I taped the commentary a couple of weeks ago.

But Shout Factory should have an announcement out soon.


BTW, you want to know how big this Quebec City event is?

They made the announcement yesterday, and there was a 15 minute spot on CBC radio today.  Which is like NPR up there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's cool that they are showing several of his other films the week before as a buildup to his question session and interview.  I hope the ultimate focus is on Revisited and Betrayed.  No matter how that turns out it is all excellent news for both. 

Are you going?  Will the interview with Oliver be broadcast or recorded for viewing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in

Sign In Now

  • Create New...