Tough Question For JFKA--LHO as CIA Asset Following Orders

[Benjamin Cole]

1. OK, I contend the Z-Film shows two shots fired on 11/22 in too-close succession to have been fired by a single-shot action rifle. Gov. Connally is struck at Z-295 and JFK at Z-313. That is about one second apart.

2. Based on the work of John Newman, Dan Hardway and others, it is reasonable to conclude LHO was a CIA asset. 

3. Many have seriously speculated the CIA effected the JFKA, and also effected the meeting between LHO and KGB officer Valery Kostikov in Mexico City. This created the "WWIII virus" (John Newman's words) that blocked any real investigation into LHO. 

4. No one saw LHO at the moment shots rang out on 11/22. He is invisible. 

So...why not conclude LHO, as a loyal CIA asset, participated in a CIA plot to assassinate JFK? 

There is understandable skepticism of the WC report---but does the fact that the WC was a whitewash necessarily exonerate LHO? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

Wanna rock and roll?

 

[Denny Zartman]

Even though I believe he was not a shooter, he clearly did participate. He was the designated patsy, so he certainly played a role in the plans of the conspirators.

I don't believe in the "false false flag" theory, but I do think that some operational elements were possibly put into place under the guise of a counter-assassination team. So, I think it's possible LHO was led to believe that his role was ultimately in preventing an attack rather than enabling one. Also, I am of the opinion that those people who did knowingly participate also felt that what they were doing was justified and ultimately patriotic, protecting the country from a leader they felt was endangering national security. 

People often point out when suspects are behaving in a way that indicates a conciousness of guilt. It's rarely noted that after his arrest LHO was calm and composed and, most importantly, never attempted to hide his face from the press.

[Benjamin Cole]

24 minutes ago, Denny Zartman said:

Even though I believe he was not a shooter, he clearly did participate. He was the designated patsy, so he certainly played a role in the plans of the conspirators.

I don't believe in the "false false flag" theory, but I do think that some operational elements were possibly put into place under the guise of a counter-assassination team. So, I think it's possible LHO was led to believe that his role was ultimately in preventing an attack rather than enabling one. Also, I am of the opinion that those people who did knowingly participate also felt that what they were doing was justified and ultimately patriotic, protecting the country from a leader they felt was endangering national security. 

People often point out when suspects are behaving in a way that indicates a conciousness of guilt. It's rarely noted that after his arrest LHO was calm and composed and, most importantly, never attempted to hide his face from the press.

DZ-

Excellent points. 

On the other hand, LHO left the TSBD, went home by taxi, and armed himself.

This suggests LHO knew something had gone wrong, and that "wrong" involved him somehow. 

I am a fan of the explanation that the JFKA was "false flag" op, an intentionally failed JFKA to instigate war with Cuba (but one that went awry when Cuban exiles fired for real). 

But perhaps LHO just participated in a straight-ahead JFKA as a CIA asset, expecting a safe house and a new identity, or that "Alek Hiddell's body would be found," and the JFKA case closed by a complicit CIA-FBI.  

I disagree with the inclination to say LHO was a CIA asset, went to Russia as a CIA asset, hung out with CIA assets in N.O. (Shaw, Bannister, Ferrie), but then is totally uninvolved when the CIA assassinates JFK right outside the TSBD. Maybe...but maybe not. 

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

8 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

I don't believe in the "false false flag" theory,

 

Denny,

I don't understand how anybody can not believe there was a false flag operation created by the CIA. Even J. Edgar Hoover and some in the CIA (who weren't in on the plot) fell for it. All that fakery in Mexico City designed to make it look like Oswald was conspiring  with the Cubans and Russians to kill Kennedy. His meeting with KGB assassinations chief Valery Kostikov, his being paid a $6500 advance in the Cuban consulate for killing Kennedy, his being friendly with Cuban consulate employee Silvia Duran (who was having an affair with a high Cuban official), his later letter to the Russian embassy in America where he mentions his meeting with Kostikov.

What do you believe that was all about if not a false flag op?

[Mark Knight]

The Oswald letter to the Russian embassy is a big clue. Oswald had to know that any correspondence sent to the Soviet embassy would have been subject to interception by US authorities; it was the height of the Cold War, for goodness' sake! So the information in the letter to the Soviet embassy was as much for US authorities' eyes as it was for occupants of the embassy. Oswald knew that just as well as he knew that any letters he sent to the US while he was in the USSR were subject to the eyes of Soviet authorities. 

My theory has it that Oswald was attempting to infiltrate both pro-Castro and anti-Castro groups and to report on what he could uncover regarding unlawful activities on either side. I think Oswald's cover was blown and he was set up as the designated patsy. But I also believe Oswald didn't realize his cover was blown until JFK was shot, at which time he knew he'd be singled out as the most likely suspect. IF, as others have suggested, the TSBD was a front company that was actually [occasionally] shipping illicit arms in book boxes, that operation was simultaneously blown out of the water because of all the police attention turned upon the TSBD.

Just more to think on.

[Sandy Larsen]

9 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I disagree with the inclination to say LHO was a CIA asset, went to Russia as a CIA asset, hung out with CIA assets in N.O. (Shaw, Bannister, Ferrie), but then is totally uninvolved when the CIA assassinates JFK right outside the TSBD. Maybe...but maybe not. 

 

Well there's a big difference between spying on Russia and infiltrating the FPCC, and killing the president. I don't think Oswald would murder someone. I don't think he would knowingly participate in the killing of a U.S. president. I just don't see those things in his character.

Second, the evidence indicates that he didn't buy that rifle, nor did he shoot it.

Third, IIRC the evidence shows that Oswald liked President Kennedy.

Fourth, I don't think that the CIA would rely on Oswald to shoot and kill Kennedy. I think they would hire a pro.

 

 

[Denny Zartman]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Denny,

I don't understand how anybody can not believe there was a false flag operation created by the CIA. Even J. Edgar Hoover and some in the CIA (who weren't in on the plot) fell for it. All that fakery in Mexico City designed to make it look like Oswald was conspiring  with the Cubans and Russians to kill Kennedy. His meeting with KGB assassinations chief Valery Kostikov, his being paid a $6500 advance in the Cuban consulate for killing Kennedy, his being friendly with Cuban consulate employee Silvia Duran (who was having an affair with a high Cuban official), his later letter to the Russian embassy in America where he mentions his meeting with Kostikov.

What do you believe that was all about if not a false flag op?

I mean the theory proposed by others here on the forum of a false false flag: that the original plan among the conspirators was an intentionally botched assassination attempt to, I guess, re-impress upon Kennedy the importance of his personal security? And somehow this fake assassination was piggybacked upon and turned into the real thing or was just another ruse entirely, i.e. the false false flag. It's not my theory, and I don't subscribe to it.

I agree with you, Sandy. There was considerable CIA effort put into making it look like Oswald was being directed by the Soviets and the Cubans.

[Sandy Larsen]

18 minutes ago, Denny Zartman said:

I mean the theory proposed by others here on the forum of a false false flag: that the original plan among the conspirators was an intentionally botched assassination attempt to, I guess, re-impress upon Kennedy the importance of his personal security? And somehow this fake assassination was piggybacked upon and turned into the real thing or was just another ruse entirely, i.e. the false false flag. It's not my theory, and I don't subscribe to it.

I agree with you, Sandy. There was considerable CIA effort put into making it look like Oswald was being directed by the Soviets and the Cubans.

 

Thanks Denny.

You know, I thought that you believed much the same thing that I believe, so I was surprised to see what you wrote above (what I misinterpreted). I thought that maybe I had misunderstood your position earlier! LOL. So it's good to see you're back to where I thought you were.

 

[Denny Zartman]

12 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Thanks Denny.

You know, I thought that you believed much the same thing that I believe, so I was surprised to see what you wrote above (what I misinterpreted). I thought that maybe I had misunderstood your position earlier! LOL. So it's good to see you're back to where I thought you were.

 

No problem at all, my apologies for saying things in a confusing way!